Why does Killington host FIS World Cups over Thanksgiving?

[ChrisC]

I love seeing Mikaela Shiffrin putting World Cup wins into the record books - the GOAT of Skiing.

However, why would Killington sacrifice almost 50% of its skiing & efforts over the Thanksgiving Holiday? Does everyone own a pass already .... and is it a better use of resources to have fanatics come up and spend money (food, beer, etc) versus ski?

 

[berkshireskier]

I would guess Killington thinks it is prestigious to host a World Cup race and probably think it is "free" publicity for the resort. I'm not sure it drives huge numbers of skiers to go to Killington over the course of the Winter but I have no numbers to back that up.

 

[Tony Crocker]

The slope prep for the World Cup does not go to waste. On today's Killington report:

Superstar is currently closed for race training with more than 350 skiers from 23 different clubs, academies and universities benefiting from the unique opportunity to practice on World Cup-caliber terrain.

So there's some revenue! And eventually that manmade base will be there for public skiing. And its super high water content helps extend Superstar's late season life too.

 

[Patrick]

why would Killington sacrifice almost 50% of its skiing & efforts over the Thanksgiving Holiday? Does everyone own a pass already .... and is it a better use of resources to have fanatics come up and spend money (food, beer, etc) versus ski?

Lodging, sales, businesses, prestige, etc. Last year's attendance over the 3-day event (bid draw, concert, fireworks) was 37,000. Not all locals.

 

[EMSC]

why would Killington sacrifice almost 50% of its skiing & efforts over the Thanksgiving Holiday?

It not a big money maker holiday for resorts in the East to start with. Vast majority of money in the east is made Christmas through end of Feb. Even March starts to wind down significantly as to crowds and profits in the East.

Historically as the only world cup stop in eastern North America, especially with Shiffrin at the top of her game, has been able to turn it into a big brand building event. I suspect well worth the cost for them. Be interested to see what impacts adding in races at Tremblant this year does though (or none?).

 

[ChrisC]

Historically as the only world cup stop in eastern North America, especially with Shiffrin at the top of her game, has been able to turn it into a big brand building event. I suspect well worth the cost for them.

Well, I am more interested in Shiffrin with boyfriend AJ. Versus Taylor Swift and Kelcee.

Both women are GOATs in their industry.

I am a huge Tom Brady fan too. But the women. Anyways.

 

[tseeb]

At least Killington could run their race. All three days of Birds of Prey Downhill and Super-G at Beaver Creek 12/1-3 were canceled due to new snow, poor visibility and high winds. Beaver Creek is "home to the only men’s World Cup speed races in North America." I recorded Sat and Sun to watch later, but they had to show previous races.

 

[EMSC]

All three days of Birds of Prey Downhill and Super-G at Beaver Creek 12/1-3 were canceled due to new snow, poor visibility and high winds.

I didn't really pay attention on Friday, but they totally could have run on Saturday. A touch breezy up top (gee not like its a race in the mountains), and partly cloudy at race time. Sunday on the other hand, they would have had a hard time even running a Slalom yet alone Super G.

 

[Tony Crocker]

All three days of Birds of Prey Downhill and Super-G at Beaver Creek 12/1-3 were canceled due to new snow, poor visibility and high winds.

That's why the World Cup bailed from Whistler in the same early December time frame. I think it was dumping snow three years in a row so they gave up.

 

[Harvey]

However, why would Killington sacrifice almost 50% of its skiing & efforts over the Thanksgiving Holiday? Does everyone own a pass already .... and is it a better use of resources to have fanatics come up and spend money (food, beer, etc) versus ski?

Why stay open until June?

Branding rarely has an immediate payoff.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Why stay open until June?

Branding rarely has an immediate payoff.

I am persuaded by Patrick's and EMSC's comments that the World Cup is profitable for Killington. Race camps provide revenue too. They are the key reason Mammoth operates full time and not just weekends in late season.

 

[Harvey]

Maybe so.

But I still think the motivation for the world cup and the beast season is branding.

 

[Patrick]

That's why the World Cup bailed from Whistler in the same early December time frame. I think it was dumping snow three years in a row so they gave up.

Do you mean Lake Louise? There hasn't been a scheduled World Cup in Whistler for many years.
There is definitely some branding issues about hosting a World Cup. Branding for the resort, but also for the regional organizations.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Do you mean Lake Louise? There hasn't been a scheduled World Cup in Whistler for many years.

No.

Whistler hosted several World Cup races, designed as Olympic test events, in February 2008. They were the first successful World Cup races at the B.C. resort since 1995.

Prior to that, the ski federation abandoned Whistler as a World Cup stop in 1998 after three consecutive years of races being cancelled due to adverse snow and weather conditions. Organizers had tried to stage those races before Christmas.

 

[Patrick]

Here is the list of resorts East/West, Canada/US in North American that hosted Alpine World Cups which started in 1966-67. Numbers doesn't include Olympics* or World Championships* which started in the 1930s.

World Cup

22: Ste-Anne QC 1969, 1971, 1973, 1976, 1980, 1984, 1989
6: Tremblant QC 1983, 2023
4: Bromont QC 1986
1: Stoneham QC 1993

132: Lake Louise AB 1980, 1983, 1989, 1991-92, 1994-2019, 2021-22
*19: Whistler BC 1975, 1982, 1984, 1986, 1989, 1993-95, 2008 / 2010*
11: Panorama BC 1985, 1989, 1992, 2007
7: Sunshine AB 1985-86
6: Red BC 1968, 1988
4: Norquay AB 1972
4: Grouse BC 1970
*3: Nakiska AB 1987 / 1988*

Alberta: 146
British Columbia: 40
Québec: 33

31: Waterville NH 1969, 1978, 1980, 1982-86, 1989, 1991
15: Kiilington VT 2016-20, 2021-23
*7: Whiteface NY 1979, 1984-86 / 1980*
6: Sugarloaf ME 1971
6: Cannon NH 1967
4: Stratton VT 1978

*85: Aspen CO 1968, 1976, 1979, 1981-89, 1991-94, 1998, 2000-02, 2004-22, 2014-15, 2017, 2023-24 / 1950*
76: Beaver Creek CO 1988-89, 1997, 1999-00, 2000-15, 2017-19, 2021-22
**49: Vail CO 1967, 1983-87, 1989, 1991-92, 1994-97, 1999 / 1989*, 1999*, 2015*
*42: Park City UT 1985-86, 1989, 1991-98, 2000, 2002-03 / 2002*
27: Heavenly CA 1968, 1970-73, 1977, 1979, 1985-86
10: Jackson Hole WY 1967, 1970, 1975
*8: Squaw/Palisades CA 1969, 2017, 2023-24 / 1960*
8: Copper CO 1976, 1999, 2001
8: Mammoth CA 1994, 1997-98
8: Sun Valley ID 1975, 1977
7: Steamboat CO 1989, 1992
4: Breckenridge CO 1991, 1996
4: Crystal 1972
2: Aleyska 1973
Snowbasin & Deer Valley - hosted event at 2002 Olympics, but no World Cup unlike Park City.

Colorado: 229
California: 43
Utah: 42
New Hampshire: 37
Vermont: 19
Wyoming: 10
Idaho: 8
New York: 7
Maine: 6
Washington: 4
Alaska: 2

 

[Patrick]

Whistler hosted several World Cup races, designed as Olympic test events, in February 2008. They were the first successful World Cup races at the B.C. resort since 1995.

Prior to that, the ski federation abandoned Whistler as a World Cup stop in 1998 after three consecutive years of races being cancelled due to adverse snow and weather conditions. Organizers had tried to stage those races before Christmas.

I remember, but didn't realized that they tried for 3 consecutive years.

 

[ChrisC]

Big World Cup races curtail operations/open terrain but attract crowds. But unless I want a party, I would likely avoid certain resorts because races can close key terrain:

• Kitzbuhel before Streif
• Wengen before its race
• Aspen closes Ruthies and a lot of looker's right

Why not Killington host an event for the community - especially since it is not really selling day tickets? The early season skiers likely have passes.


Zermatt-Cervinia's new downhill course, Gran Becca, has had a rather unsuccessful debut for two years, but I doubt they would ax it like Whistler:

• Canceled in November 2023 for too much snow, wind, and weather for two separate weekends - men's and women's
• Canceled in November 2022 for lack of snow

They have aspirations to make it an iconic race:

Gran Becca and its unique highlights​

​

How does the designer of the Gran Becca, Olympic downhill champion Didier Défago, characterize this new World Cup course? At 3800m of altitude, embedded in a majestic panorama, La Gran Becca has the highest start of all World Cup races. The course is drawn on the Swiss and Italian territories, mostly on glaciers. Between crevasses and stunning rocks, the downhill is complete, composed of pure gliding parts, big and fast downhill curves, and more technical parts with high speed and varied jumps. Its 885m difference in altitude, the altitude itself, its 3.7km length, and the combination of natural and artificial snow - this all will bring additional challenges to the athletes, is Didier Défago convinced.​

​

Why Gran Becca?​

​

The Streif in Kitzbühel, the Lauberhorn in Wengen, or the Stelvio in Bormio - among ski enthusiasts, the names of these legendary downhill courses are all well-known. Every World Cup downhill course has a name engraved in memories and history. This is exactly what should happen with Gran Becca, the spectacular and cross-border new downhill course at the foot of the Matterhorn/Cervino.​

​

Two-thirds of the race is run on the Italian side, so it made absolutely sense to us to give it an Italian name», says Franz Julen. We were looking for a name that ideally represents the area where these World Cup races will be held.​

​

 

[tseeb]

I went to the World Cup Downhill at Heavenly in 1977. Since it was a drought year , there was no coverage into Wells Fargo which could have made for a great, steep finish and about 3500' vertical. Without it, the course ended before Stagecoach base and was a test of who had the best glide and wax.

Not sure if Franz Klammer won or was just there. We hiked up far enough to ski to what was then an unloading/loading mid-station on Boulder chair. Without tickets we loaded and skied for rest of day by never going down to where they checked tickets.

 

[EMSC]

Patrick, your list is missing the "2015*" for World Champs held at Vail/Beaver Creek (I was there for part of it, so kind of easy for me to remember, lol. 2015 Beaver Creek).

Most won't remember, but the 1999 and 2001 Copper Mtn World Cup races were terrible early seasons where the Park City Races got moved to Copper at last second since they had some open terrain (not much either) and could at least blow snow. Probably some of the least challenging World Cup courses in history though (under Eagle lift which is low angle blue terrain). Among other world cup races, I was at those as well (I was still race coaching on-hill every weekend+ back then). Talk about no race crowds. Hardly anyone was there for watching.

 

[Patrick]

Patrick, your list is missing the "2015*" for World Champs held at Vail/Beaver Creek (I was there for part of it, so kind of easy for me to remember, lol. 2015 Beaver Creek).

You are correct about the Vail/Beaver Creek in 2015, I had a blind spot for what was really recent.

Most won't remember, but the 1999 and 2001 Copper Mtn World Cup races were terrible early seasons where the Park City Races got moved to Copper at last second since they had some open terrain (not much either) and could at least blow snow.

If I remember correctly, the 1983 Tremblant World Cup was suppose to be held at Ste-Anne, but due to lack of snow, the race got move to Tremblant. Not really a challenging Downhill as it started at the top down McCulloch then through a fairly flat blue to reach the base. I don't remember where they race the GS? Flying Mile would make sense (they had a few big races years go), but it was definitely narrower and manicured back in 1983.

Talk about no race crowds. Hardly anyone was there for watching.

Attendance at races in Western Canada was generally the same.

Funny I went out with a friend/former coach last night and we happened to discuss the World Cup. He's been 2-3 times at Killington in the first few races and did a day trip to see the race at Tremblant on Saturday.

We talked about attendance out in Lake Louise versus Killington and Tremblant races. As I mentioned above, the crowd attending are not only locals, many of them spend money on lodgings, restaurants etc. in what is still a quiet time of the season considering the limited amount of ski terrain available.