Hunter removes season totals from conditions page
- Thread starter sven
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jamesdeluxe
Administrator
Belleayre's keepin' it real... their 13 angry inches are still on the conditions page.
Wow, 13 inches by the third week of January.
Wow, 13 inches by the third week of January.
As many of you know, I make a mission of compiling year to date totals and comparing them to averages. I have never tracked the areas mentioned here because I do not have historical data for them. I'm surprised Hunter ever listed it, because they are so explicit in asserting that snowmaking is all that matters to them.
Eastern areas with historical info: http://bestsnow.net/eastnet.htm .
Of these I track Jay, Mansfield Stake, Sugarbush, Killington and Cannon in season. Any others with running totals on line, let me know.
And I would still like to get some historical info from Quebec.
Eastern areas with historical info: http://bestsnow.net/eastnet.htm .
Of these I track Jay, Mansfield Stake, Sugarbush, Killington and Cannon in season. Any others with running totals on line, let me know.
And I would still like to get some historical info from Quebec.
JimG.
New member
Tony Crocker":1iynby04 said:
True.
On a lift ride a few years ago with the late Izzy Slutsky, I commented that it sure was nice to have 10" of fresh snow that day. Izzy went off...had nothing good to say about the damned snow. Just screws up the roads and costs Hunter money because they have to plow the lot.
He was happy if it was cold and never snowed.
eatskisleep
New member
Not sure it mattes but last season the snowfall total at Attitash was 22".
jamesdeluxe
Administrator
JimG.":2a1kbeiw said:
Wouldn't it cost more money to blow snow on the entire mountain than to plow the parking lot?
Mark Renson
New member
Tony Crocker":2cfw3e0a said:
Mad River Glen. Wildcat, too.
JimG.
New member
jamesdeluxe":1w8bkl1c said:
The Hunter way is to blow snow on the whole mountain anyway...the way they figure it any natural snow just makes it hard for people to get to the mountain and it costs them to remove the snow from lots and local roads.
The Slutsky's have always said they prefer a cold winter with no natural snow.
MRG only had historical data for days they were open. I need complete Dec. 1 - Mar. 31 at a minimum. Wildcat's data was sketchy also. I have not pursued New England areas (other than the ones I use already, for annual updates) since 1995. Since I have data for Sugarbush and Mt. Washington, I've not been motivated to pursue MRG and Wildcat further.
I'm interested is covering different climate zones. Thus something like St. Anne or Le Massif would be of most interest as an eastern addition. I may check back with Le Massif this spring. As I recall, when NASJA was there in 2003 they were compiling data, but they only had a few years then.
First priority for new data would be from the Alps. Assistance from any of you with connections and/or language skills would be appreciated.
Izzy's sentiments are perfectly logical. If your prevailing climate is better suited to snowmaking than snowplows, you should bet your investment $ accordingly.
I'm interested is covering different climate zones. Thus something like St. Anne or Le Massif would be of most interest as an eastern addition. I may check back with Le Massif this spring. As I recall, when NASJA was there in 2003 they were compiling data, but they only had a few years then.
First priority for new data would be from the Alps. Assistance from any of you with connections and/or language skills would be appreciated.
Izzy's sentiments are perfectly logical. If your prevailing climate is better suited to snowmaking than snowplows, you should bet your investment $ accordingly.
Patrick
Active member
This logic might apply in places where most of their clientele wouldn't have any snow anyways, but it's terrible up here.Tony Crocker":3pdlywiy said:
By coincidence, the owner of one of local hill was talking to us tonight about how snow was just like icing, but the cold was the most important for the skiing. However the natural snow is important, because the clientele in Ottawa (Montreal, Quebec City or whatever) doesn't imagine that they can be snow on the slopes where there isn't snow on the ground in the cities.
BTW, conditions at Fortune are much better now...however it was a bit cold tonight to have a race. -24c when I left the bar.
jamesdeluxe
Administrator
Patrick":34q4evve said:
Absolutely true, and a big difference between urban skiers from the East and West.
Patrick
Active member
jamesdeluxe":33pzillh said:
I wasn't sure how this logic plays out further south in places like New York, especially after comments made by Hunter's Izzy?
Eastern Canada urban areas are most of the times snow covered during most of the season, I suspect that wouldn't necessarily be the case further south.
jamesdeluxe
Administrator
Patrick:
To answer your question about whether the conditions in people's backyards affects their decision to go skiing, check out this NY Times article from the (now mythical) 2000-01 season:
Snow Outlasts Skiers On Slopes in Northeast
By JANE GOTTLIEB
Published: April 14, 2001
Snow is a terrible thing to waste.
After struggling through winters when the snow never came and winters when it came and retreated by Lincoln's Birthday, the Northeast ski industry has been hit with an entirely new form of torment: snow that will not quit even though the skiers have.
''You can't win,'' said June Brinkman, director for marketing and sales at the Hunter Mountain Ski Bowl. ''Last spring was nuclear spring. Starting March 1, we lost trails like crazy.
''This year, we're working on a 15-foot base. We haven't made snow since the third week of February. But we're not getting the skiers. They're renting houses in the Hamptons. They've put away their skis.''
With New York City enjoying spring weather, most ski areas that draw heavily from metropolitan New York will be calling it a season by Sunday, though the mountains of New York, Vermont and Massachusetts remain sealed in acres of snow with the potential to provide two more months of blissful skiing conditions.
Today, the snow at Hunter lay smooth like a new floor covering. It coated the woods instead of leaving off abruptly at the trail's edge, a sure sign that it had fallen from the sky and not been shot from a machine. In another April anomaly, the 40-to-110-inch base was sufficient to keep all 47 trails open. There were no bare spots; no slush. The sun shone. It was almost too much to bear.
''This is a nightmare,'' said Bill Keyser, 48, a Hunter regular from Lake Katrine in Ulster County who gazed wistfully from the Catskill Mountain summit. ''They're going to shut us down. I've skied here 30 years and I've never seen snowpack this deep. We should be skiing into May.''
The book is closing on what will be remembered as a spectacular season, when the snow arrived early, skipped the usual thaws and freezes and kept piling up long past the point anyone had a right to expect.
In the Green Mountains of Vermont, where Killington Resort reported 120 inches in March alone and Mount Snow racked up 44 inches in 10 days, snow banks still meet the rooftops. Street signs and ground-floor windows remain hidden.
But the skiers of Connecticut, New York and New Jersey have proved fickle, turning their attention to gardens and golfing.
''It's hard to imagine that the snow is still good when we're going out in T-shirts and shorts,'' said Nancy Held, a mother of three from Fairfield, Conn., who skied a good deal in southern Vermont over the winter.
''It's getting warm enough where we have to start moving on our lawn. We have to start picking up the debris from the winter and putting fertilizer and seed down.''
And so goes to ruin one of New England's most precious crops. Mount Snow, Vermont's southernmost resort, closes Sunday, though decks are still collapsing under the weight of snow and snow plows are still seeking out places to put it all. Even in March, a bonanza month for snow, requests for house rentals slowed down, bed and breakfasts closed and the mountain's usually bursting parking lot has been half empty.
''It's been many, many, many years since we've had this much good snow this late,'' Sharon Ray, who runs a welcome center for the Mount Snow Area Chamber of Commerce, said earlier this month. ''But it's just the local people and season pass holders who are skiing. Tourists aren't coming.''
The bounty has inspired a few southern New England areas -- Sugarbush and Okemo Mountain Resorts in Vermont and Jiminy Peak in Massachusetts -- to hold on a bit longer.
But only Killington, upholding its tradition of running later than any other resort, will keep going until the snow leaves. Blessed with 315 inches this season, with up to 9 feet still covering the ground, the mountain's operators hope to stay open well into May or even June. Even there, interest is wearing out among the people who live off the snow as well as those who usually live to cut through it.
''Just last week we were expecting a northeaster,'' said Patrick Ruben, 29, the executive chef of the Birch Ridge Inn near Killington. ''It missed us and if it had hit, there would have been another three feet of snow. Everybody who moved to the area because of the snow and whose livelihoods depend on it was saying, 'Not another storm!' They're tired of it.''
In New York's Adirondacks, snow cover forced the postponement of the trout season and an annual bass tournament. Near Lake Placid, Whiteface Mountain, buried under eight feet of snow, decided to remain open weekends into next month. But that is partly because there is not much else for people there to do.
''At this point in the game there are not a lot of other jobs our maintenance staff can get into,'' said Bruce McCulley, the assistant manager.
But at Hunter, the roughly 500 skiers still coming each day are not enough to justify keeping the 400 employees on the payroll, said Ms. Brinkman, who repeats this many times a day to the die-hards who call, send e-mail and visit, begging for compassion.
There is more than enough discontent to go around. ''We had to shut down a trail last weekend,'' Ms. Brinkman said. ''A bear came out of his den and was totally confused. He was looking for something green to eat and all he saw was white, and everyone was watching him as he slipped on the hard-packed snow. He certainly feels it is time to move on.''
To answer your question about whether the conditions in people's backyards affects their decision to go skiing, check out this NY Times article from the (now mythical) 2000-01 season:
Snow Outlasts Skiers On Slopes in Northeast
By JANE GOTTLIEB
Published: April 14, 2001
Snow is a terrible thing to waste.
After struggling through winters when the snow never came and winters when it came and retreated by Lincoln's Birthday, the Northeast ski industry has been hit with an entirely new form of torment: snow that will not quit even though the skiers have.
''You can't win,'' said June Brinkman, director for marketing and sales at the Hunter Mountain Ski Bowl. ''Last spring was nuclear spring. Starting March 1, we lost trails like crazy.
''This year, we're working on a 15-foot base. We haven't made snow since the third week of February. But we're not getting the skiers. They're renting houses in the Hamptons. They've put away their skis.''
With New York City enjoying spring weather, most ski areas that draw heavily from metropolitan New York will be calling it a season by Sunday, though the mountains of New York, Vermont and Massachusetts remain sealed in acres of snow with the potential to provide two more months of blissful skiing conditions.
Today, the snow at Hunter lay smooth like a new floor covering. It coated the woods instead of leaving off abruptly at the trail's edge, a sure sign that it had fallen from the sky and not been shot from a machine. In another April anomaly, the 40-to-110-inch base was sufficient to keep all 47 trails open. There were no bare spots; no slush. The sun shone. It was almost too much to bear.
''This is a nightmare,'' said Bill Keyser, 48, a Hunter regular from Lake Katrine in Ulster County who gazed wistfully from the Catskill Mountain summit. ''They're going to shut us down. I've skied here 30 years and I've never seen snowpack this deep. We should be skiing into May.''
The book is closing on what will be remembered as a spectacular season, when the snow arrived early, skipped the usual thaws and freezes and kept piling up long past the point anyone had a right to expect.
In the Green Mountains of Vermont, where Killington Resort reported 120 inches in March alone and Mount Snow racked up 44 inches in 10 days, snow banks still meet the rooftops. Street signs and ground-floor windows remain hidden.
But the skiers of Connecticut, New York and New Jersey have proved fickle, turning their attention to gardens and golfing.
''It's hard to imagine that the snow is still good when we're going out in T-shirts and shorts,'' said Nancy Held, a mother of three from Fairfield, Conn., who skied a good deal in southern Vermont over the winter.
''It's getting warm enough where we have to start moving on our lawn. We have to start picking up the debris from the winter and putting fertilizer and seed down.''
And so goes to ruin one of New England's most precious crops. Mount Snow, Vermont's southernmost resort, closes Sunday, though decks are still collapsing under the weight of snow and snow plows are still seeking out places to put it all. Even in March, a bonanza month for snow, requests for house rentals slowed down, bed and breakfasts closed and the mountain's usually bursting parking lot has been half empty.
''It's been many, many, many years since we've had this much good snow this late,'' Sharon Ray, who runs a welcome center for the Mount Snow Area Chamber of Commerce, said earlier this month. ''But it's just the local people and season pass holders who are skiing. Tourists aren't coming.''
The bounty has inspired a few southern New England areas -- Sugarbush and Okemo Mountain Resorts in Vermont and Jiminy Peak in Massachusetts -- to hold on a bit longer.
But only Killington, upholding its tradition of running later than any other resort, will keep going until the snow leaves. Blessed with 315 inches this season, with up to 9 feet still covering the ground, the mountain's operators hope to stay open well into May or even June. Even there, interest is wearing out among the people who live off the snow as well as those who usually live to cut through it.
''Just last week we were expecting a northeaster,'' said Patrick Ruben, 29, the executive chef of the Birch Ridge Inn near Killington. ''It missed us and if it had hit, there would have been another three feet of snow. Everybody who moved to the area because of the snow and whose livelihoods depend on it was saying, 'Not another storm!' They're tired of it.''
In New York's Adirondacks, snow cover forced the postponement of the trout season and an annual bass tournament. Near Lake Placid, Whiteface Mountain, buried under eight feet of snow, decided to remain open weekends into next month. But that is partly because there is not much else for people there to do.
''At this point in the game there are not a lot of other jobs our maintenance staff can get into,'' said Bruce McCulley, the assistant manager.
But at Hunter, the roughly 500 skiers still coming each day are not enough to justify keeping the 400 employees on the payroll, said Ms. Brinkman, who repeats this many times a day to the die-hards who call, send e-mail and visit, begging for compassion.
There is more than enough discontent to go around. ''We had to shut down a trail last weekend,'' Ms. Brinkman said. ''A bear came out of his den and was totally confused. He was looking for something green to eat and all he saw was white, and everyone was watching him as he slipped on the hard-packed snow. He certainly feels it is time to move on.''
JimG.
New member
jamesdeluxe":3p25einx said:
But this is the case every year, not just mythical years. Let's face it, nobody cares or thinks about skiing much after April 1 here in the east. Most people have moved on to things like golf and yardwork. We're the only hardcores who are looking for more skiing.
And by the same token, folks who are looking to ski know that Hunter will be open even if there isn't snow in Manhattan. And folks who don't really care are blissfully ignorant whatever...they don't ski much and their revenue is not what keeps the mountain up and running.
And this article is very disingenuous from the Hunter POV...they didn't close up that year because they ran out of skiers, they closed up because they wanted to clear the mountain out so they could break ground and start building the new learning center which opened in 01-02!
There wasn't any snow on the ground this past weekend, but there were alot of skiers at Hunter to enjoy the freshly blown snow and newly opened terrain. People know what's up. What's lacking is the desire to ski in most, and that cuts across all geographies.
Patrick
Active member
JimG.":2onzd80x said:
This is obvious and a fact of the ski industry.
JimG.":2onzd80x said:
That's what I figured and it applies pretty much everywhere in the East.
The dynamic in Eastern Canada is slightly different, as snow on the ground is definitely the norm in the winter months. That snow on the ground might not get the regular out more, but definitely has an impact on day ticket crowds that do not ski 20 days a year. I heard that ski lessons registration and other ski related stuff were down this year because of the "lack of winter" in this part of the world. The regular skiing will be out, but what percentage does it represent in term of revenue and visits?
Note: ski areas in Ottawa are as close as 15 minutes from downtown, however the ski areas were deserted until the first real snow accumulation on December 27-28th, then everyone went skiing regardless of the fact that the ski areas only had 2-3 runs open.