St Anton Austria - February 9, 2024.

As a train geek -- yesterday, I was admiring the late lamented Los Angeles Pacific Electric Railway (1912 map below) and reading up on the conspiracy theory about its demise -- I would LOVE to do ski trips this way for a variety of reasons. Unfortunately, it's not realistic given how I generally structure my Alps trips, which are usually weighted toward obscure ski areas.


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@jamesdeluxe and anyone else who is a dedicated map nerd (guilty) here's a link and insane catalog of maps you can go WAY down the rabbit hole on. **(I keyed in RAILROAD in search and there is material for days). Don't miss some of the Alps ones either!
https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/se...=railroad&sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort&os=100

 
Of course it’s worth reminding myself that you often get what you pay for so staying flexible might be a bit more expensive but better value in the long run.
I would challenge the view that the mistakes were a result of saving expense. Was the train that much cheaper than keeping the car? Even if the train is cheaper it forces you to book hotels within walking distance of a train station. With the car you can nearly always find attractively priced lodging 10-15km down the road from a ski resort. This is what we have done every time for Verbier, because in-resort lodging there is ridiculously priced.
As a train geek -- yesterday, I was admiring the late lamented Los Angeles Pacific Electric Railway (1912 map below) and reading up on the conspiracy theory about its demise -- I would LOVE to do ski trips this way for a variety of reasons. Unfortunately, it's not realistic given how I generally structure my Alps trips, which are usually weighted toward obscure ski areas.

Living in SoCal nearly all my life gives me a very suspicious attitude toward public transit. I believe I've been on an L.A. Metro train about 5x lifetime. I worked in downtown L.A for 33 years. Only last year did a light rail connection get built that would have allowed me to commute directly for work, and that would not have been from Glendale but for my first 5 years working downtown when I lived in South Pasadena.

That Pacific Electric system was on the streets, so never as fast as by car and obsolete once freeways were built. It worked in an era with no freeways and when most families had only one car and some had no car.

The Euro rail system often works great for the standard one week staying in one resort plan. If you are going to move around, no. The past 3 seasons in the Alps have demonstrated why the flexible mindset that James, ChrisC and I use is essential to avoid getting burned by bad conditions at a far advance booked resort. And James demonstrates that this can be done even if your trip is only one week.
 
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These days, I don't really want to go unless conditions are going to be nearly perfect - which is not reality. Growing up in the NorthEast, I partially moved West to ski in better conditions. However, that's not even guaranteed. What's the term for some SLC - Alta/Bird skiers...."Powder Princess"?
Many Mammoth skiers are princesses too. They think it's their birthright to ski packed powder all the time and turn up their noses at the SoCal locals.

I'm obsessive about trying to avoid the disaster scenarios on destination trips. Despite those efforts I still get my fair share of mediocrity. Once I'm committed I try to make the best of it. But decades of ski experience, much of it on my own, helps me find the best parts of the places with mostly mediocre conditions.

Sbooker overall does a very impressive job considering he lives in one of the worst located first world cities for a skier. Only the last part of this trip "went off the rails" and it's frustrating because we could have helped prevent that from happening.
 
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That Pacific Electric system was on the streets, so never as fast as by car and obsolete once freeways were built. It worked in an era with no freeways and when most families had only one car and some had no car.
I agree that Pacific Electric had a very short stretch of actual usefulness. As noted in the article linked above, the main reason for the impressive level of coverage was to sell houses as the city sprawled; however, once those tracts were filled with homeowners (who then bought cars), the system lost its reason for being and wasn't efficient to run.

Our commuter rail lines in NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, etc. are all based on old private railroads that were sold to the government by the 1960s and 70s (see my station arrowed in red below on the former DLW: Delaware, Lackawanna, and Western Railroad) because they were still useful for transporting commuters; however, most of the old streetcar/light rail routes were similarly ripped up and replaced by buses. Of course, many are being rebuilt today.

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I'm obsessive about trying to avoid the disaster scenarios on destination trips.
If I hadn't already committed to joining Tony and Liz (specifically, that the hotel had already been paid well before our arrival), I would've definitely cancelled the flights on my recent trip and tried again later in the season/hoping for better conditions.
 
Our commuter rail lines in NYC, Boston, Philadelphia, etc. are all based on old private railroads that were sold to the government by the 1960s and 70
The light rail rights of way in greater L.A. are exactly the same.
I would've definitely cancelled the flights on my recent trip and tried again later in the season/hoping for better conditions.
Nowhere we skied on this trip was even close to the "disaster scenario" or even what sbooker experienced in the wrong sector of St. Anton. Most of the ski areas, Val d'Isere included, had sectors far above mediocrity, and it remains a mystery why the ESF guide on Jan. 28 didn't choose one of them. Since that experience aggravated James' hip injury and restricted him to on piste skiing the rest of the trip, it's very understandable why James came away with a negative view.

As for powder expectation, I analyzed this in exhaustive detail back in 2008. James' run of luck in the Alps during most of the 2010's and ours from 2014-2019 are in retrospect well above average. Most resorts in the Alps fall into the range of the group in my analysis where
60% of weeks will have no days with 6+ inches of new snow.
In 99% of North America that means you will not be skiing any powder. In the Alps your odds will be better due to less competition, but there are other constraints that will prevent days old untracked from being any good.
1) Warm temperatures, like the latter half of this trip.
2) Low altitude. Saalbach did not have any good powder in 2017 despite superb conditions on piste.
3) Wind hammering, either during or after storms, which is not all that uncommon above tree line. We saw much of that this year in Lauchernalp and Val d'Isere.

In some cases leftover powder can be found only way off-piste with assistance from local guides. That was my experience with the Piste-to-Powder guides in St. Anton in 2013.

I had two Alps experiences with good powder multiple days after the last storm: the Arlberg in 2017 and the first week in 2019. That Arlberg week had 4 days where the temps never got much over 10F, and was considered highly abnormal by both Fraser and our host at the Sandhof in Lech. 2019 was colder than average too, and there was a top off of a few inches right before we started the trip in Lenzerheide and St. Moritz. We moved on to Engelberg, but scored the most primo off piste powder there with guides.

The other powder advantage in the Alps is the compact driving distances. You can land in Geneva, and if the best snow is in Austria or Italy you can get there in no more than two days.

Otherwise it's no different than I said back in 2008. Proactively raising powder odds means chasing within one week of a favorable weather forecast as ChrisC did this time. If air travel is involved you're not likely getting a reasonable price in either $$ or FF miles on that short notice.
These days, I don't really want to go unless conditions are going to be nearly perfect - which is not reality.
Even in ChrisC's case that doesn't mean exclusively powder. I think he would agree with me that also includes decent snow surfaces on any kind of interesting terrain different in scale or topography from what we get in North America. So I was thrilled to get those Mont Gele runs at Verbier on my last day, timed for soft windbuff in one direction and corn in the other. At ChrisC's level, there are also long technical lines, couloirs etc. far more abundant in the Alps. I realize that James may not share this view and be more focused on the powder.
 
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Since that experience aggravated James' hip injury and restricted him to on piste skiing the rest of the trip, it's very understandable why James came away with a negative view.
I've told everyone that despite the lack of no new snow Val d'Isere and Courchevel were worth the trip and they met/exceeded expectations. My point was that given my hip issues beforehand (my wife watching me hobble around and stating "you've gotta be shitting me -- you're going on a second ski trip to Europe in this condition?"), I would've cancelled if the hotel hadn't already been locked in.
 
My point was that given my hip issues beforehand (my wife watching me hobble around and stating "you've gotta be shitting me -- you're going on a second ski trip to Europe in this condition?"), I would've cancelled if the hotel hadn't already been locked in.
I misunderstood. Your previous post
tried again later in the season/hoping for better conditions
said to me that you would have cancelled because there was no new snow and none in sight in the forecast.
 
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If air travel is involved you're not likely getting a reasonable price in either $$ or FF miles on that short notice.
It's dependent of course on your starting point. Booking my December flight from EWR to Zurich a week before departure was 61K miles. That's far from the half-price FF deals we've been scoring in recent years when purchasing months in advance but I'd argue that it wasn't gouging given how I was able to confirm that my target region would be getting fresh snow.
 
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ooking my December flight from EWR to Zurich a week before departure was 61K miles. That's far from the half-price FF deals we've been scoring in recent years when purchasing months in advance but I'd argue that it wasn't gouging given how I was able to confirm that my target region would be getting fresh snow.
Agree 100%. It's absolutely worth paying more if you're within the new snow forecast window. But James was traveling during the vacation dead zone between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Travel within one week notice in February/March might cost a lot more.
 
James was traveling during the vacation dead zone between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Travel within one week notice in February/March might cost a lot more.
I suspect that you're correct. I've booked "last-minute" (within several days of departure) FF awards to the Alps during mid-December and the second week of March but never tried it for my end of Jan/early Feb trips.
 
Your ‘leave passes’ are pretty impressive. Your wife gets the odd cruise with girlfriends in the Bahamas as a compromise?
In the U.S., we call them "hall passes" (a public-school reference).

We used to go together on one or two ski trips a season (the last one was the Jungfrau in 2018) until our respective parents aged out of being able to stay with our son for up to a week at a time. Since then, we have an agreement to go on separate breaks while one of us stays home (I go skiing; she usually visits her family). I'm leaving out lots of details but that's the broad picture.
 
think Zell Am See would still be good.

It looks like a beautiful lake town, with decent snow on top and snow-making routes to the village. Also, you likely can take a bus to Kitzsteinhorn/Kaprun - one of the high almost year round glaciated areas.

The Powderhounds guys have located in Kitzsteinhorn/Kaprun/Zell Am See area, and skiing its glaciers. Looks pretty good. And they generally have their pick of locations.

 
It looks like a beautiful lake town, with decent snow on top and snow-making routes to the village.
During our March 2003 visit to the Kitzbühel Alps, we spent a day at Zell. Didn't take any on-hill pix but that ^^ summary is apt.

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One of the pistes Sbooker chose at St. Anton in February.

Yes. The mountain often closes the easier blue run through the valley (avalanche potential / trap) forcing everyone on an expert slope to get back to St. Anton.

So all skiers returning from Lech, Zurs, and Stuben- plus anyone wanting to do the world famous apres-ski - are present.

Definitely one of the worst in the Alps, and why to avoid some of the core St. Anton areas.

 
One more reason to base in Lech/Zurs, especially if your group has intermediates. EMSC, take note for your group.
 
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