43 Below, ARG - 29 Aug - 1 Sept 10

[Patrick]

Tony Crocker advises not to book South America on a La Nina ENSO year. Looks like he nailed it.

To be fair to Tony, he seemed to have added some info that and that it's not as black and white as the statement above. I just saw the quote with was link somewhere else and I was trying to find to post in this abreviated TR.

http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/955 ... ag-pics/30

I didn't mention the ski area, because since the last time I was here, daily lift ticket cost me 300% more (okay, a day ticket is about $30 - I paid $20 for 2 day ($10 each day). Everything in Esquel isn't as dirt cheap as it was, but we are far, very far in both distance and prices from Las Leñas. Plate of spagnhetti at lunch cost me $10 versus $3 two years ago.

I generally wait til the last moment to make a commitment in destinations and I learned from my mistakes. See the Pucon is getting dumped on forecast fiasco to understand. I looked at a similar forecast and said there is no way I'm going to waste my time there unless I can see and ski the volcano. Heavy snow line seem to start at Pucon and spread all the way pass Bariloche. La Hoya it would seem from what I'm hearing, didn't receive as much snow from that storm, which is fine.

So after...
1 hour YOW-YYZ - little waiting between flights.
11 hours YYZ-SCL
After a tourisiy day walk, I had a few hours to spend till the overnight bus. A walk from the bus terminal, passed LA Moneda, Plaza des Armas to Plaza Italia, hoped on a long bus ride.

12 hours bus for Santiago-Osorno.

A bunch of skiers were waiting at the bus terminal. An Argentina ski team of somekinds, a couple of French kids (ok, young adults) racing FIS races all over the Andes and a couple of Americans and provider of ski porn that were arriving from Termas. We were in 3 different buses all leaving at about the same time.

5 hours across a snowy pass between Osorno-Bariloche. Having to explain to a border guard what were skins and a beacon. Meet up with the French kids, they were heading for La Hoya.

4.5 hours for Bari-Esquel. WTF is it with a randow police check of all passenger for an entire bus at 11pm just outside Esquel?

Made it at the Hostel at 11:30pm, first real meal in a Restaurant since I left Canada on Thursday at midnight. First sleep in a bed in 2 night.

First turns on awesome conditions a few hours later (too many hours - blame it with a fuck up in mountain transfert).

Skied part of the day with fellow Canucks, locals from Shames that have been at La Hoya for one month. Shames and La Hoya are that far apart.

Many people on the hill (for this place), I can only imagine Catedral today.

Oh yeah, first shower at the end of day since I left Canada. Man, did it feel good. Looks like Mother Nature grooming machine is starting, place were filling up at the end of the day.

So for Day 49, Month 59, 1st day on a new pair of ski with new AT received from MEC last Monday. Ski Trip to SA 4...this was the best start of a trip and best August day EVER!!! Up there with my best days in SA, especially do to a few runs.

Off-piste was great. Wind pack somewhat, but stable. The rest of the hill was in great conditions too. Did some hiking, skied fresh tracks....that is all. Snow coverage is different and not spread out least equally than 2 years ago. Hoping to repeat or the next 2 days here minimum. After Bariloche before the weekend?

A few annoyances and TISA. The plan transfert fuck up...my first dat here is similar to my last day two years ago when my ride had car issues plus we needed to make a stop then someone forgot something... you really have to be Zen to deal with this stuff. ](*,) Oh yeah, hit a rock on one of the chute...like last day here the last time. Different line, same idea.

I concede one thing to Tony, if I wasn't traveling solo, a car in smaller places (not Catedral, Leñas, Portillo, etc) would make sense, but more a number of smaller areas that I would be curious in checking out like Antillanca or Correlco (other volcanos). There is also the fact to get any informations on these places without phoning? Habla Español someone?

Not making promise on pictures, I don't want to jink it. :? Not going to post often, because this internet isn't free.

 

[Tony Crocker]

In that Epic thread I commented on the latitude analogy of the El Nino favored areas of SoCal vs. Portillo and Taos vs. Las Lenas. No reason El Nino would favor South America 40+ latitude; it might even go the other way like in North America, but I have no data to back up that conjecture.

Soulskier did tell Patrick where to go. I still have lot of skepticism about Catedral; even when it's good you're still downloading the bottom third of the hill most of the time. La Hoya is sounding more impressive with each Patrick visit, but it's about as easy to get to as Shames.

Made it at the Hostel at 11:30pm, first real meal in a Restaurant since I left Canada on Thursday at midnight. First sleep in a bed in 2 night.

Masochistic. If I spent that much continuous time on plane and bus without exercise or bed sleep my back would be so f***ed up I might not be able to ski at all without some major therapy first.

I wasn't traveling solo, a car in smaller places (not Catedral, Leñas, Portillo, etc) would make sense

This is the way it works in New Zealand. Even coming from the East, the logistics of getting to and moving around small areas on South Island in a car are a piece of cake compared to the plane/bus/TISA marathon Patrick just endured.

 

[Lucky Luke]

Skied part of the day with fellow Canucks, locals from Shames that have been at La Hoya for one month. Shames and La Hoya are that far apart.

Do you have some names?

 

[Patrick]

In that Epic thread I commented on the latitude analogy of the El Nino favored areas of SoCal vs. Portillo and Taos vs. Las Lenas.

That is why I added to be fair to Tony. At first I had only seen that quote.

Soulskier did tell Patrick where to go.

Soulskier gave me his suggestion. I had already had a good option reading and checking the weather and ski forums.

I still have lot of skepticism about Catedral; even when it's good you're still downloading the bottom third of the hill most of the time. La Hoya is sounding more impressive with each Patrick visit, but it's about as easy to get to as Shames.

From what I heard for the two traveling Frenchman that arrived in my room, Catedral was a happening place. Like Terrace, they are direct flight from a major city. In this case, the flight is direct from Buenos Aires and runs two times a week and cost about $500.

Masochistic. If I spent that much continuous time on plane and bus without exercise or bed sleep my back would be so f***ed up I might not be able to ski at all without some major therapy first.

Many people do it...buses in Chile and Argentina cannot be compare with our Greyhounds. Plus prices and dirt cheap. With all this traveling, Im catching on my movies watching.

I wasn't traveling solo, a car in smaller places (not Catedral, Leñas, Portillo, etc) would make sense

This is the way it works in New Zealand. Even coming from the East, the logistics of getting to and moving around small areas on South Island in a car are a piece of cake compared to the plane/bus/TISA marathon Patrick just endured.

The cost of renting versus busing is so overwhelming here, that it doesnt make sense if you take into account the distance involved and random police check...and Im not even getting into border crossings.

Do you have some names?

Si. Will tell you when I get home.

 

[Patrick]

30 August 2010

Second day at La Hoya.

Very different weather wise. A bunch of people stayed at the Hostel due to the high winds and fear of only the bottom quad would run.

At first when we got there, the quad and two ropetows were the only thing running. Decided to break in the skins and touring gear I received last week. As we skinning up, Patrol told us about the dangers and didnt want us at all near the offpiste. He was talking about 3 muertas in an avalanche not far from here when the La Hoya were trying to recover the bodies.

Our plan, was to stay on the pista. As we got close to the top of the pitch near the plateau, we saw two skiers flies by. The Tbar was abierto...so we decided to go do some laps on the tbar. The snow was filling nicely the previous day. A lot of windpack snow with some sweet powder pockets. The mountain was virtually empty. We went it a few times...mountain shutdown one hour early.

Temps...High winds and blowing snow. Hard to say how much feel as it was going sideways. My guestimate is maybe 30cm.

Forecast for tomorrow? Low winds and blue sky. YEah \/

Oh yeah, I decided to add an extra ski day here and planning to make my first September turns at La Hoya.

 

[Admin]

From what I heard for the two traveling Frenchman that arrived in my room, Catedral was a happening place. Like Terrace, they are direct flight from a major city. In this case, the flight is direct from Buenos Aires and runs two times a week and cost about $500.

Well, if the place is "happening" it sure isn't because of two flights a week -- they can't account for more than 150-250 people.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

1 hour YOW-YYZ
11 hours YYZ-SCL
12 hours bus for Santiago-Osorno.
5 hours across a snowy pass between Osorno-Bariloche. Having to explain to a border guard what were skins and a beacon.
4.5 hours for Bari-Esquel. WTF is it with a randow police check of all passenger for an entire bus at 11pm just outside Esquel?

 

[Tony Crocker]

Catedral was a happening place

Bariloche is a happening place. The skiing at Catedral is chronically snow challenged. Note soulskier is at Las Lenas despite the marginal season there.

In this case, the flight is direct from Buenos Aires and runs two times a week and cost about $500.

Interesting, more than the once a week flights to Malargue for Las Lenas? I would have assumed that Bariloche had enough population/tourism to justify close to daily flights.

This trip is totally the streak tail wagging the ski trip dog IMHO. These are not even new areas for Patrick. What could you get for this cost in $ and vacation time in France or interior B.C. in February/March? I do understand, being an addict and compulsive keeper of ski records. That's why I stopped my streak at 12. The longer it continued, the more crazy stuff I'd be willing to do to keep it alive.

 

[Lucky Luke]

Do you have some names?

Si. Will tell you when I get home.

C'mon it's no secret, :-$ I know them? FIB is still tracking you? :-"

Have fun! =P~

 

[Patrick]

This trip is totally the streak tail wagging the ski trip dog IMHO. These are not even new areas for Patrick.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Dont go to South America, its not worth it.

No time to respond to this...especially after another awesome day. Got to look into my plans for this weekend. ELA spents x years in Bari...believe what you want Tony, coming here and return has nothing to go with the streak.

As of today, this is the area Ive skied the most in SA. I have no trouble returning here in the future. As for new ski areas, I prefered skiing 4 days at Altabird than spliting them up to just add new ski areas.

Places that I wouldnt mind skiing in SA (and a few have good snow).

Antillanca
Chapa Verte
Correlco
Cavienhue
Cerro Wayle
Cerro Castor

Got to go...meter is running.

Today: awesome blue bird day with powder and windpack as similar to my real good days at Termas.

Real good day.

The offpiste above the quad was official cerrado. As a good Canadian, we respect law and order (in somewhere in Canadas Constitution Statement or somewhere). The French dont respect order... roomates trashed that face. 7 times all the way up to Cerro Carbon.

Someone skied one of the chutes above the road, but they said it was someone else. They said their was other group that made those. Not many tracks, as I would estimate maybe 10/12 tracks at the most. The area is suppose to open tomorrow (had a good talk with the patrol that was turning people away, a good guy. The Utard with me and him talked about what happened in Las Alarces).

If the offpiste is open...Ill be heading there until I leave. Taking the 4pm out to Bari. Off to Catedral Thursday and Friday, Bayo on Saturday. Flying out of Santiago on Wednesday.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Flying out of Santiago on Wednesday.

Holy $#!& Patrick is going to repeat the same masochistic exercise going home as he did to get here!

Places that I wouldn't mind skiing in SA (and a few have good snow).
Antillanca
Chapa Verte
Correlco
Cavienhue
Cerro Wayle
Cerro Castor

Places I think Patrick hasn't skied yet in Canada :-s :
Fernie
Castle Mt.
Red Mt.
Kicking Horse
Revelstoke
Whitewater
Apex
Big White
Silver Star
Sun Peaks
Le Valinouet
Mt. Edouard
Massif du Sud

Something in this picture does not compute. :-k :?

 

[rfarren]

Places I think Patrick hasn't skied yet in Canada :-s :
Fernie
Castle Mt.
Red Mt.
Kicking Horse
Revelstoke
Whitewater
Apex
Big White
Silver Star
Sun Peaks
Le Valinouet
Mt. Edouard
Massif du Sud

Something in this picture does not compute. :-k :?

I don't think you can ski those places in august/september.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I don't think you can ski those places in august/september.

Precisely. That's why it's all about The Streak.

Just :stir: here. Some of us will admit our obsessions. Do I ever push hard at the end of a day to meet some vertical objective? Yes, occasionally like at Sun Valley last March. Will I take a day at a lesser area I've never skied before vs. a repeat visit to a better one? Sure, just did that last February at Kimberley vs. Fernie. The difference is that Patrick appears to be in denial about The Streak. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck....

 

[Patrick]

I don't think you can ski those places in august/september.

Precisely. That's why it's all about The Streak.

Tony, you don't seem to understand. My skiing desire hasn't change in the last 30 years. It's not about a Streak, it's about extending my ski season. I did when I was 16 when I borrowed my mom's car to ski Gray Rocks in late May. I did it at in my young adults days going to Killngton to extend the season into June even if the conditions were pathetic and I had to take off my skis 4 times to make it to the bottom. THAT IS WHO I AM!!!! South America is in the same logic?

Why August/September? Yes, there is the streak, but coverage is also better. I wouldn't come down here in the months I needed to bridge would be June/July regardless on the streak. I almost never hit Killington early in the Spring or in the Winter as I had skiing closer to home.

As for the places I haven't skied in Quebec...I haven't had the huge desire to ski them instead of hitting Vermont because I would have to leave for a couple of days.

As for the West, there are just so many skiing I can do in the Winter. I always take one week off with the family in March plus the odd Powder Days Stormchasing. There is good skiing in the East.

Okay, let's me put another analogy...let's say you could only sex 30=40 days in one year, you would want all that sex to be confined only between December and April? Or spread out those days throughout the whole year.

OKay, skiing sucked again today. I'm sure you could have the lines I skied by myself and untracked stuff all day long two days after a storm at these places: :lol:

Fernie
Castle Mt.
Red Mt.
Kicking Horse
Revelstoke
Whitewater
Apex
Big White
Silver Star
Sun Peaks
Le Valinouet
Mt. Edouard
Massif du Sud

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Gotta love Patrick's ten weeks of paid vacation every year. :-"

 

[Tony Crocker]

The average quality of the Canadian list is much higher and the cost is far less. Patrick does not get 10 weeks of vacation per year. He may get more time than most Americans, but as for any of us resources in time and $ are finite.

Okay, let's me put another analogy...let's say you could only sex 30=40 days in one year, you would want all that sex to be confined only between December and April? Or spread out those days throughout the whole year.

If I had to pay $500 for each time in August/September I might take a pass. :lol:

Patrick has at least admitted that to him it's worth paying much more for skiing of equivalent or lesser quality just because it's June-October vs. December-April. The Streak is the logical extension of that mindset. He has also spent airfare and vacation time for Mammoth in June/July twice. In response to rfarren's inquiries I have expressed my opinion that a ski-centric vacation to Mammoth costing airfare $ is worthwhile only to Memorial Day given typical lifts/terrain open. Nonetheless I =D> Patrick's most recent Mammoth trip as he finally brought Morgane with him. Patrick also spent vacation and air to ski the WROD in Colorado in October. This was the option I rejected in 2005.

I plead guilty to paying the "off-season" premium for skiing myself 4 of the past 6 seasons. But I wouldn't do it if it were at the expense of my interior B.C. or Utah trips. And I would not take a 13-day trip where 6 days were spent on planes and buses.

 

[Patrick]

Gotta love Patrick's ten weeks of paid vacation every year. :-"

Try four week a year wiseguy. :stir:

From what I heard for the two traveling Frenchman that arrived in my room, Catedral was a happening place. Like Terrace, they are direct flight from a major city. In this case, the flight is direct from Buenos Aires and runs two times a week and cost about $500.

Well, if the place is "happening" it sure isn't because of two flights a week -- they can't account for more than 150-250 people.

Sorry, I meet the 2 flights are for Esquel.

Bariloche is happening now. Couldn't believe the people here, a bunch of gringos, some of them pretty famous too.

The average quality of the Canadian list is much higher and the cost is far less. Patrick does not get 10 weeks of vacation per year. He may get more time than most Americans, but as for any of us resources in time and $ are finite.

Much higher? We dont necessarly have the same definitions. 5 days skiing in a row, the overall quality of the days is probably on par or superior if I didmt ski anymore on this trip. Steeps, untracked powder...damn, it doesnt suck.

Patrick has at least admitted that to him it's worth paying much more for skiing of equivalent or lesser quality just because it's June-October vs. December-April. The Streak is the logical extension of that mindset. He has also spent airfare and vacation time for Mammoth in June/July twice. In response to rfarren's inquiries I have expressed my opinion that a ski-centric vacation to Mammoth costing airfare $ is worthwhile only to Memorial Day given typical lifts/terrain open. Nonetheless I =D> Patrick's most recent Mammoth trip as he finally brought Morgane with him. Patrick also spent vacation and air to ski the WROD in Colorado in October. This was the option I rejected in 2005.

Colorado is the only exception to the role. 1..never been to Colorado, I even drove all the way out to Aspen on that weekend. 2..wanted to see what the fuss is about. Frank mentioned at one time that we would love to go to Colorado in October to ski WROD. He went twice to Timberline without a streak. If the streak was the purpose in my days, I would have been to Tucks in June and July this year plus returned to Oregon for a weekend. :dead horse:

And I would not take a 13-day trip where 6 days were spent on planes and buses.

6 days??? What are you talking about?

27 - Landing in SCL and bus later that night to Osorno.
28 = Arrived in Osorno and took two buses to Esquel
29, 30, 31 = skied
1 = skied and took the evening bus to Bariloche.
2 - ski again.
and planning to ski tomorrow and Saturday. It will depends on the weather and where I want to go and what is possible. Checking the forecast.

 

[Tony Crocker]

6 days??? What are you talking about?

Last ski day is Saturday and you're flying out of Santiago Wednesday?

Left unstated in the positive reports of terrain and conditions is how much skiing one could actually do. With TISA, lift closures and transport logistics I'm guessing about 10K per day. It's fortunate Patrick brought an Alpine Touring setup, because with the lift closures it certainly came in handy. Useful reports, nudging me even more in the direction of converting powderqueen's used BD Verdicts to AT.

Frank mentioned at one time that we would love to go to Colorado in October to ski WROD. He went twice to Timberline without a streak.

Frank is even nuttier than Patrick IMHO. After all those FTO nutcase posts back in 2003 when he was in college, Frank cleverly took an accounting job which allows him no time off whatsoever from January to April. I warned him about this offline when he was still in college.

If the streak was the purpose in my days, I would have been to Tucks in June and July this year plus returned to Oregon for a weekend.

There's a rational case for that. Spend the saved $ and vacation time on France or B.C. and the average quality of the entire ski season might be higher. This is the usual method for Ron Cram http://skistreak.com/ in Utah. He hikes backcountry in June/July, then hits Timberline for a quick trip for August/September, though he went to South America in 2006 and 2008. Of course he's skiing real mountains all the time in our winter, and not just in Utah. His 2002 trip to Chamonix was quite a bit more impressive than mine in 2004: http://skistreak.com/2002/europe/chamon ... uille.html. It takes much more ......dedication... to maintain a ski streak from Ottawa.

Being the snow research junkie that I am, I am quite aware that the potential for shutdowns or bad snow conditions at all Southern Hemisphere destinations is much greater than at even average resorts in the American and Canadian West. Probably more than the Alps too. It does not surprise me that only one of my 6 southern trips (NZ 2006) had consistent snow conditions comparable to most of my Utah and B.C. vacations. Southern ski trips are sort of like the eclipse trips. Plan lots of other/contingent activities so your vacation is not a bust if the weather doesn't cooperate.

 

[Patrick]

6 days??? What are you talking about?

Last ski day is Saturday and you're flying out of Santiago Wednesday?

What??? You were talking about 6 travel days. I'm looking at the weather for this weekend and early next week. I could possibly ski a couple of days. I will possibly have only 2 travel days...it depends of the next destinations. Hard to find info and weather isn't super at one of the new places I'm looking at, I might return to see if I have more luck at a repeat place.

With TISA, lift closures and transport logistics I'm guessing about 10K per day.

All 5 days have had so far at least 10k even today with a 2.5 hour tour with a good hike on day 1 and TISA fator.

If the streak was the purpose in my days, I would have been to Tucks in June and July this year plus returned to Oregon for a weekend.

There's a rational case for that. Spend the saved $ and vacation time on France or B.C. and the average quality of the entire ski season might be higher.

There is skiing at home...and close to home. I'm not feeding away withdrawal from not skiing. I've explained at lenght why it is more difficult to take time off in the Winter time...not all is under my control. Family, Work, School, kids, etc. Impact is less now than in the middle of winter, not to say that I wont go back West this year or next..it just happened that way that I missed the last 2 seasons.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Sorry, minimum 4 travel days out of 13 total. That's still about double the rate of my southern trips.

I do follow these adventures with interest because a Powderquest tour of the higher latitude Chile/Argentine areas should be on my retirement agenda. I'll reserve judgment until I've seen them personally, but the Argentine Lake areas strike me as similar in scale and snow reliability to New Zealand but with higher risk factors.