A GIFT FROM THE AIRLINE GODS TO JACKSON HOLE
- Thread starter Bluebird Day
- Start date
Mike Bernstein":18qcpuus said:
Mike...I haven't really followed western weather. But I've followed NWS ten day forecasts for a long time in the east. Personally, I'd be more confident in a ten day forecast that indicates a pattern was remaining in place vs a forecast calling for a change. It seems like many times predicted pattern changes come, but do so later than indicated 10 days out. So if it's been dumping in the Wasatch and the NWS guys are calling for more of the same, I'd be more confident then I would if the call that said a dry spell was ending. And obviously if it's been dumping, condition should be better anyway.
Not based on any science or numbers, just my experience. If Tony or anyone has any data, pls share.
Bluebird Day
New member
rfarren":u1i3iv65 said:
I said that I am flying to Jackson Hole =;, not skiing there. I'll be staying with family in Wilson (at the Base of Teton Pass) and will be skiing TP and Targhee. I gave up on Teton Village when they put the Four Seasons in there. Too much "Bogna" and furry apre ski boots now.
Bluebird Day
New member
Targhee is a great place to ski. It gets lots of great snow (bring yellow lenses for storm skiing). The terrain is challenging enough for me. You can find some steeps off Mary's Nipple. All-in-all it is a laidback feel like Alta. Even a little more so.. On a clear day (rare) the Grand Teton and Teton Canyon make for the best scenary in the lower 48. Also, the Cat Skiing is fun and well run. Lots of nice tree shots...
As many of you know my days there in 1986, 1995 and 2001 were variable at best. Nonetheless even when it's crappy you can see the awesome potential, which Patrick and I finally realized in 2006. Interestingly, the snow was distinctly better at Jackson than Targhee on that trip.
This is a silly reason to disdain skiing there. From Wilson you have day-to-day flexibility. Sure, Targhee will have better snow much of the time, but if conditions are close to equal I'd go with Jackson for the terrain.
This is my gut reaction also, with no stats to back it up. But this reaction comes from the Sierra, where weather is the most streaky of the major North America ski regions. There are many things that can go wrong with a 10-day forecast. Even if a storm materializes, it could slow down/speed up and drop more/less than expected. Or the forecast track into the Wasatch could be wrong and it could go north or south instead.
:shock:Admin":3oz1t9ha said:
I'm waiting for Chris C.'s dismissive comments:Admin":2vsz5v9x said:
http://firsttracksonline.com/News/2009/ ... ng-Skiing/
Bluebird Day
New member
The feature story on skiing at Targhee and Snow King did a great job in projecting the experience of skiing at both hills. I too had an epic powder day at Snow King a few years back and my wife and her family and I had the whole place to ourselves. The other must see happening there is the annual town downhill in March when all the retired US Ski Team and FIS members come out for the day and squeeze back into their speed suits and rip down the downhill course. The same course that the Norwegian Team trained on the week prior to the SLC Olympic Games. One thing the author forget to mention was the local dogs that roam the mountain and the fact that if you are willing to skin up, you can ski without a lift ticket.
Despite James Michaud's forthrightly stated bias, his stated reason for not skiing JHMR was weather/lift shutdowns. The message from the article should be that you have 3 diverse areas to choose from, giving you a better shot at good skiing when the weather serves up something unusual.
That would be the norm. Snow King is lower and in the shadow of the Tetons, likely gets well under 200 inches. But no surprise that a storm big enough to shut nearly everything down at JHMR would bring enough powder to Snow King. As much snow as Jackson got during our 2006 trip, a firm snowmaking subsurface was often evident on the lower part of Snow King.
NASJA West spent the first 2 nights of the January 2006 trip at Snow King Resort. It does offer nice lodging within easy walking distance to town. Patrick and I did not ski there then, but on our getaway day 3 days later.
The Targhee piece confirms most people's opinion of the place. I would comment that nobody I know of averages 5% water content snow. Targhee should be in the same Intermountain 8-9% range as the extensive data I have for Jackson and Snowbird, also confirmed by the more recent info Alta has been publishing.
The article does not state when James Michaud was on this trip. The caveat about late season applies to Targhee as well as Jackson, though not to the same degree. Interestingly it was the January trip with Patrick where Targhee had crusty snow from prior sunny days in its mainly west exposure.
I'm guilty of lazy reporting... the key verb is "averages" -- that would mean it sometimes gets 1-2% water content snow.Tony Crocker":1nn1j9w2 said:
:-k
I may have picked up that stat from the resort, and I should never use a resort-generated snow figure (as confirmed in the Dartmouth deceptive snow reporting piece) without fact-checking. That said, Targhee gets so much snow, it doesn't need to be deceptive.
That's odd, because mid-to-late January seems to be JH and GT's traditional sweet spot.Tony Crocker":1nn1j9w2 said:
You still haven't said when your trip was. Alta is now providing daily history which can give us a feel for the range of water content. http://www.alta.com/pages/snowhistory.php#tracker. There's a day with 2.5% water but only 2.5 inches snow that day. For any sizable dump the minimum water content is in the 4% range. Note Alta's long term water content average of 8.55%.
The 2006 weather may have been unusual. There was a temperature inversion holding valley temps in Jackson Hole in the 10-15F range before the storms hit. Targhee was in the 20-30F range with a couple of sunny days. Targhee often has fog and overcast which can prevent the melt/freeze. This was the case during my March 2001 day there. Jackson had late spring conditions on much of the hill the day before.
My website http://bestsnow.net is available to cross check snow data. I can also provide further input by e-mail or PM if needed.
The 2006 weather may have been unusual. There was a temperature inversion holding valley temps in Jackson Hole in the 10-15F range before the storms hit. Targhee was in the 20-30F range with a couple of sunny days. Targhee often has fog and overcast which can prevent the melt/freeze. This was the case during my March 2001 day there. Jackson had late spring conditions on much of the hill the day before.
My website http://bestsnow.net is available to cross check snow data. I can also provide further input by e-mail or PM if needed.
All four of my trips to Jackson/Grand Targhee were during the last week of January/first week of February. On the first trip (Jan 2002, I think), I arrived during a high-pressure system and conditions at JH were rock hard, while Grand Targhee still had plenty of stashes if you sniffed around. It was the first time I lost a ski in powder -- took me 30 minutes to find it. On the other three trips, conditions ranged from very good to fantastic.Tony Crocker":76rztyp3 said:
Here's an article from the 2004 trip (similar to FTO's older threads, for some reason the apostrophes and dashes have been replaced by bolded question marks):
http://snowjournal.com/page.php?cid=doc785
Noted.Tony Crocker":76rztyp3 said:
Having skiied many times at both JH an Alta, Alta wins out everytime for me. But that said, my kids have skied Alta 4 trips, Targhee one, and Colorado Once. I would love to take the kids to JH for a family trip. While Targhee is more intermediate it does make for a great young family vacation. Have fun in Jackson.
ChrisC
Well-known member
jamesdeluxe":21yo9hn6 said:I'm waiting for Chris C.'s dismissive comments:Admin":21yo9hn6 said:
http://firsttracksonline.com/News/2009/ ... ng-Skiing/
No, I would not travel to WY for Snow King. I echo Tony's comments a bit - it's good to have choice. And I kinda figured you had your own priorities when I read about your New Mexico trip and you did not make room for Taos despite the fact you were in the locale.
My sentiment is that Snow King is an experience repeated by other mountains in geographies East to West. However, things like the Jackson's Hobacks or Taos' Ridge are very unique.
No, I am not really into that scene. However, most of this type never makes off the obvious areas of a mountain. Therfore, I still prefer a larger hill with unexplored areas.
What is more problematic is perhaps the local skier base. For example, in Telluride I can recognize a lot of the people hiking Palmyra, Gold Hill areas or Bear Creek. This is the skier most often inflicting damage/density in the more unique/desirable zones of a mountain. Therefore, my issue with class A mountains is higher competition with the type of skier living in the area. This allows the class B mountains to shine in the way Snow King does.
Actually, the original plan was to ski one day at Snow King, two or three at Jackson Hole, and one or two at Grand Targhee, and that's more or less how it played out. However, an epic Day 1 at Jackson Hole ended at 10:30 am, when they shut down all lifts due to high winds, so we re-directed to Snow King. Day 2 at JH was excellent.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7652&p=42014
The NM trip was planned as a "tasting menu," with one day at each ski area, including Taos. But like our first day at JH, we got hit with tough weather at Taos:ChrisC":122xhofy said:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7652&p=42014
Rikki_d
New member
Thought I'd drop my 2 cents worth of knowledge on booking early...first off I'm from the East..Ontario, Canada..have to book early because work requires me too!..sucks I know...so for the past 9 years I have been booking trips (2 a season) as early as Aug..because of cheap flights..so my stats are 9 years..18 trips...1 year skunked with no new snow..most trips are mixed with blue bird skies..warm temps..followed by 8" to 48" of new snow. Only in 2005 did we get totally skunked and just had warm sunny weather all week. I have also booked a trip to J.H. and G.T. for the end of Jan., how could I not?..flights out of Detroit were 280.00CDN...I may be just lucky!..or a powder provider..don't really don't know..oh and 1 of those 2 trips I've taken in the last 9 years is to either Vernont or Eastern Townships of Quebec..booked in Oct...and have always had a significant puking of new snow...Jay Peak this year..end of Feb....so call me a tard if you will..but I'll put my stats against anybody that says you shouldn't book early.. :sabre fight:
Rikki_d's claims if accurate represent an unusual degree of luck which would lead to a lot of disappointment if assumed to be the norm by advance booked destination skiers. Some of you will recall that I analyzed this point in some detail using 20+ years of daily snow records from Jay Peak, Steamboat and Squaw Valley viewtopic.php?t=6822 . I also summarized my March Utah experience in the last post here: viewtopic.php?t=2964.
Since most of my Utah trips were only 4 days, one would expect the percent with new snow to be lower than the model based upon a week. Rikki_d did not say how long his trips were.
With regard to the outright disasters like the PNW and western Canada mid-season 2005, those are thankfully rare and usually avoided by common sense in planning. Rikki_d and I shared that experience. The only other time conditions were so bad I changed an itinerary was the Jackson trip in late March 1986. But I did get decent skiing in Utah out of that one; I just had to pay extra for the car to drive there and another place to stay.
Since most of my Utah trips were only 4 days, one would expect the percent with new snow to be lower than the model based upon a week. Rikki_d did not say how long his trips were.
With regard to the outright disasters like the PNW and western Canada mid-season 2005, those are thankfully rare and usually avoided by common sense in planning. Rikki_d and I shared that experience. The only other time conditions were so bad I changed an itinerary was the Jackson trip in late March 1986. But I did get decent skiing in Utah out of that one; I just had to pay extra for the car to drive there and another place to stay.