advice for Colorado

[johnnash]

As expected, Sarah and I got a rather late start today after NYE festivities, and we chose to ski Vail on a very abbreviated schedule. We headed up-mountain, and the good news is that there are no crowds and the surface conditions there aren’t a total disaster, as long as you stick to the groomers. Virtually no ice; mostly what you could charitably describe as packed powder, albeit packed pretty hard. Still, it was pleasant fast skiing. The bad news is that on the few bump runs that are still open, the troughs of the bumps are littered with core shots waiting to happen-- no joy there. And it will take a lot of snow to fix that; a few inches will just hide all those mines until somebody’s skis get ripped open. It was sunny all day, but at least at the top, I doubt that the temps got higher than the mid-20s, so there probably won’t be much further damage for now. I took the attached shot looking into the back bowls from near Two Elk Lodge. It is clear from this (and the web cam in Blue Sky) that the bowls do have snow cover, so if one nice storm were to blow through, they might be able to open them. But, alas, nothing’s in the forecast.
Plan for tomorrow is to get to know Beaver Creek, then drive down to Wolf Creek for a couple of days. As everyone on FTOL noted, they at least have a decent base, and according to NOAA, temps there should be a few degrees colder than at Vail, so hopefully surface conditions will not deteriorate over the next few days. If anyone has a recommendation for a place to stay near Wolf Creek, let me know.

 

[q]

Montana is looking pretty good at the minute in comparison to these horror stories!

Discovery is now 75% open. 55" YTD is just fine and looking like a good March for me. Big Mountain, Schweitzer, Lookout Pass, Red Mountain and Sliver Mountain all looking good too.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Montana is looking pretty good at the minute in comparison to these horror stories!

Very little of the November Northwest snowstorms pushed much farther east in the U.S. Northern Rockies than Schweitzer and December was dry until Christmas. Brundage was closed, Bridger was 21% open and Whitefish 31% after a delayed opening. Last week's storm has taken Montana from dismal to just late and below average. But that's an advantage of scheduling vacations in March. It takes a really awful season for snow coverage not to be there or to be melting out. With a below average snowpack I'd want contingencies to avoid the places with a lot of south facing terrain though.

 

[egieszl]

johnnash, do the bowls have cover over by High Noon Express? The area by Orient Express had cover when I flew over in mid-December and that lift looked like it might have been open, but according to their ski report all Back Bowls and Blue Sky Basin are closed.

I'm sad to report that conditions continue to get worse at Snowmass. Usually conditions improve over these weeks, not worsen. It's been nearly two weeks since our last snow fall and there is nothing in the forecast but sun and unusually warm temps. Unfortunately, the wind storm wrecked the snow coverage, stripped away any soft snow we had and created bare spots and exposed rocks. As a result they have closed some runs like Sheer Bliss, Glissade, Camp 3, a large portion of the Big Burn above Whispering Jesse, Wineskin and Dallas Freeway. Lunkerville below Lodgepole and Log Deck is now closed and they're using a never before used summer access road to move you over to Naked Lady or you can ski down Tom's Trace. (There was a snowcat working overtime this afternoon on Lunkerville.) Sneaky's which usually has the best snow now has coverage similar to how it was over Thanksgiving. There are actually small but growing bare spots now that the sun is taking advantage of at the top of the mountain! Thin spots, bare spots and areas of exposed dirt and rock are common over mid-mountain runs without snowmaking and all of Elk Camp and much of Two Creeks.

Surface conditions are slick hard packed and grooming is pretty much non-existent now, unless it is a run with man-made snow. Most of the runs they cannot groom. Unfortunately, snowmaking ceased operations as of December 31. There is a sign at the bottom of the Elk Camp chair today warning that there is no beginner terrain and no groomed runs. Coverage on Elk Camp and Alpine Springs is really poor with grassy spots, bare spots and exposed rocks that could be a catastrophe to hit. I ski at beginner speed because I have to evaluate and watch each turn.

The best coverage is in the terrain parks where the mountain used the majority of their water to build jumps. There is descent coverage on Fanny Hill, lower Hal's Hollow, upper Scooper, Banzai Ridge, Lower Green Cabin, skiers left on Max Park and Funnel. Last week some of the black diamond bump runs were skiing ok, but they're now slick and more and more rocks are exposed, troughs are in some cases barren.

I skied down Funnel Bypass (catwalk beginner run) today and not only are you hitting gravel in the snow for much of the way, but there large exposed rocks protruding several inches above the surface in spots. That's pathetic for a beginner run.

Overall, December 31 was the worst conditions I've ever experienced for a day in December at Snowmass and the 2nd worst conditions ever. Today, I would place the conditions at 3rd worst ever, and the worst ever for a day in January. That's with 26-years of experience skiing here.

We need a minimum of 24-30 inches to fall in a matter of a few days for conditions to significantly improve. A 6-12 inch storm isn't going to make a difference and it will only hide the numerous hazards. Basically coverage is so thin that in many areas it's like they're starting over.

 

[johnnash]

Today we skied Beaver Creek, and the conditions are pretty much the same as Vail's. I had hoped for better, thinking perhaps BC had more snow-making. A shuttle driver told us that BC had already exhausted their water quota for snow-making, boding really badly for the future. In any case, the situation was about like Vail -- decent surface on blue and green groomers (but a few brown spots), but ungroomed is really bad. BC groomed a few blacks, which were fun, but you still have to watch out for obstacles. This problem is magnified by the fact that the area had a huge windstorm Dec. 31, which blew a lot of debris onto the slopes, and it's hard to discern rocks from small pine cones!
Apologies to egieszsl -- I didn't get a look into the bowls around High Noon yesterday at Vail, so can't answer your question.

Tomorrow in Wolf Creek.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Tomorrow in Wolf Creek.

=D> =D> =D>
The Southwest is now in dry mode too. But at Wolf Creek you have a deep base and won't have coverage concerns. A deep base is also more insulated and should have less melt/freeze action that the places with a thin base do. Also Wolf Creek's snow is all natural and less likely to ice up than the manmade you were on at Vail/Beaver Creek.

Hopefully the last 2 days will convince you come up with a creative idea about Heavenly, which is far worse off than Vail/Beaver Creek. How about blowing off skiing, going to SF, Napa Valley, Big Sur, something like that?

 

[q]

Very little of the November Northwest snowstorms pushed much farther east in the U.S. Northern Rockies than Schweitzer and December was dry until Christmas. Brundage was closed, Bridger was 21% open and Whitefish 31% after a delayed opening. Last week's storm has taken Montana from dismal to just late and below average. But that's an advantage of scheduling vacations in March. It takes a really awful season for snow coverage not to be there or to be melting out. With a below average snowpack I'd want contingencies to avoid the places with a lot of south facing terrain though.

I plan my trip for March for a variety of reasons. Longer days, normally greater snowpack, cost etc etc.

I've been coming to the USA every year since 2000 always March/April. The 2nd year the first week was at Fernie which had a dreadful season up until the week we arrived and it snowed almost every day. 2004 had skimpy snow and an extremely dry March in SLC with a record temperature on the 31st in SLC of 80 degrees I think it was. 2005 Big Mountain closed early and I did not bother skiing there on arrival for my trip, it did not bode well yet within a day a 4 feet storm pounded other Montanan hills. Bogus Basin had been closed for the season weeks earlier but reopened amid huge storms when I skied there in early April. 2007 was not so kind early on as I changed plans a couple times and since then conditions have been ok.

My first two weeks at this early stage look ok, Utah should deliver but I can always cancel those and head to Canada again for 10 days to finish my trip should the need arise.

Moral of the story for me is conditions can very quickly change, don't book long in advance unless your happy to make do with whats there or are happy to just be with friends etc or make sure you can change. By flying to Missoula I have the best of everything. I can head north, south or west.

My dad and brother have their annual trip to Frisco in April.

 

[Tony Crocker]

By flying to Missoula I have the best of everything. I can head north, south or west.

In parts of your region 2001 and 2005 were exceptionally bad seasons. But if you have a month and a car you can still avoid bad conditions if you're willing to be flexible. That's what I'm doing from mid-January to mid-February.

 

[Skrad]

The 25% of Discovery that is closed is the very interesting terrain. The 75% that is open is flattish and served by slow chairs. They need more snow.

 

[dreamintoaction]

Well if you dont make it to Colorado --- you could try and win this and find another reason to get back there. assuming snow is good.
if not - i wonder what it means for the xgames. im sure theyve got a plan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXPVkwIsVVk

 

[egieszl]

I went to Aspen Mountain today and conditions were much better than Snowmass. The groomers had sufficient coverage that I was able to ski at normal speed. There are some thin spots, but I didn't hit any rocks other than a few loose, small ones floating on the surface which I call tip chippers. The snow was nice firm machine groomed in the morning, but it started to get rather hard and slick by 12:30 pm. The ungroomed bump runs I avoided, but I could see that coverage was ok on some and unacceptable on others. I skied Aztec (black diamond) and it was some hard, hard, hard, slick pack. I think I made three turns and slid the rest.

After 24,103 vertical feet in three hours I left and went to Buttermilk, where again conditions were better than Snowmass.

Snow cover at Buttermilk is very thin on areas without man-made snow and while there are some bare spots, most obstacles were easily avoidable and rocks weren't an issue. Surface conditions were old snow that was firm and grooming is limited until they get more snow. I added 11,662 vertical feet there.

Overall, I would say it was my second best day this season so far.

I plan to post my first TR with photos in the next couple of days.

 

[johnnash]

We’ve been skiing Wolf Creek the last 2 days and our thanks go to Tony, ESMC and others who suggested this. The drive from Vail is totally worth it, given the superior conditions. We love the resort, which has the kind of laid-back feeling of others that have been our favorites, like Brighton and Bachelor. Surface has been true packed powder, with total coverage – no rocks, except in a few places on very steep slopes. Some runs have a few tops of little fir trees sticking up, but no big deal. It’s been wonderful for us, but I have to wonder when the effects of no snow and warming temps will begin to show. Certainly, it will take a long time for the shaded areas (like pretty much all the runs off the Alberta lift), but in other more exposed areas, it may come sooner. On a positive note, there is some chance of more snow Saturday. Today’s our last day here (after 1 day of skiing, we changed our plans to stay 3 days instead of 2), and I’ll let FTOL know how the surface is holding up.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Here's a recent pic of Vail's vaunted Back Bowls, taken by a friend of my Denver-based brother.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I went to Aspen Mountain today and conditions were much better than Snowmass.

This is useful info. Aspen Mountain is in general much steeper than Snowmass and thus this observation is unexpected. The likely reason is much more skier traffic at Snowmass over Christmas break. This is one more reason the high volume places along I-70 closer to Denver should be avoided for awhile, as if we haven't heard enough from eyewitness reports. Also at Mammoth, which had few coverage issues on the manmade runs when I when I was there Dec. 15-16, forum reports during Christmas week noted that with traffic the rocks were coming out within a couple of hours after opening each day. And this week is better than last week despite the warm weather just due to many fewer people digging up the thin base.

Just say no to Christmas week destination trips!

 

[jasoncapecod]

Just say no to Christmas week destination trips!

Unfortunately we can't..but we will stick to the high percentage places..

 

[Evren]

Here's a recent pic of Vail's vaunted Back Bowls, taken by a friend of my Denver-based brother.

He posted that on Vail's fb page, too... and undid in one fell swoop, all the put-a-good-spin effort emanating from the resort

 

[EMSC]

Here's a recent pic of Vail's vaunted Back Bowls

Looks to me like there's no competition to get first tracks! Aren't low competition days the best time for hitting the bowls?

 

[johnnash]

I really wonder when jamesdeluxe's s picture was taken of the back bowls at Vail, because when we skied Vail on Jan.1, at least part of the back bowls was pretty much fully covered with snow, as my picture showed. I'm sure the coverage wasn't enough to ski, but the picture I posted was very different from the one posted by jamesdeluxe. Perhaps the difference is in the slope's different exposures, or could be the dates.

Re. Wolf Creek, the skiing was still great today, but by the end of the day, the surface conditions were finally starting to deteriorate a bit on the ungroomed sun exposed slopes. I skied Alberta Face twice within 20 minutes in the late afternoon, and the surface changed remarkably after the sun went behind the mountain -- very stiff after about 3:30. Other ungroomed slopes also got very stiff in the afternoon, so I skied the last few runs on groomers and easy bumps. We've had a fantastic time here, but if anyone is thinking about coming in the near future, I would advise them to think about not only the base (which is excellent for the rest of the season), but also the surface. For most of the runs that get traffic, the surface has not gotten to spring conditions yet (certainly no slush), but if warm temps and snow-drought conditions continue, the surface will also keep deteriorating. If you're comfortable skiing steep bumpy glades (I'm not), I suspect the tree runs off Alberta (which are in almost total shade) will remain nice for some time.

 

[Marc_C]

Here's a recent pic of Vail's vaunted Back Bowls, taken by a friend of my Denver-based brother.

Define "recent". Fess up. When was that picture taken? Comments and TRs here and elsewhere state conditions and coverage quite the opposite of what that pic implies.

 

[EMSC]

Here's a recent pic of Vail's vaunted Back Bowls, taken by a friend of my Denver-based brother.

Define "recent". Fess up. When was that picture taken? Comments and TRs here and elsewhere state conditions and coverage quite the opposite of what that pic implies.

Probably very recent. Remember that the back bowls have a wide variety of exposures from east to south to west, etc... Here's an article today with a picture from Thursday showing part of one of the back bowls...
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_19688647.

Given the recent heat wave some spots might still have snow and others are totally bare.