April Snow
- Thread starter awf170
- Start date
Patrick
Well-known member
awf170":1dx4sv5p said:
I didn't say don't go...
I was just responding to the believe that the only good skiing in the East was around Mt. Washington. That is clearly not the case.
For the record, many of my Western ski trip have been in April:
1st week: Whistler (1996)
mid-April: Banff (1999) - great winter conditions!!!
3rd week: Banff (2000)
My three order trip have been in:
3rd week in March: Jasper-Banff combo (2002)
June: Blackcomb (1988) and Mammoth (2005)
Geoff
New member
His Editorship":3ev8fstr said:
Yep. Guido's right. It's never 70 degrees with a rotting snow surface in April. I was in the back bowls of Vail on April 8 this year and I must have been delusional. Yeah, it dumped 3 feet 2 days later and continued to snow for the rest of April and that, of course, happens every year.
Geoff":12w06tvp said:
Glad we have an understanding. :wink: :wink: :wink:
Yeah, sure...it's possible to find rotten mank. However, the key here is playing aspects, as Mr. Crocker will surely elaborate on. Sometimes even moving a couple of degrees around a corner makes a world of difference. C'mon...the Vail Back Bowls face south!!! Even when it was in the 50s here this spring we could find dry, chalky snow by sticking to stuff facing north, at the very same time that another aspect 100 yards away was total rotten crap. Really. A bad snow year throws any discussion of shoulder seasons into ambiguity, of course, but let's not use south-facing terrain as an example.
Frankontour
New member
ouch... I didn't think the conditions were soooo bad in april on the west coast.
way better here.... (probably in my dreams...)
way better here.... (probably in my dreams...)
The statement "In my opinion, the skiing is often better in New England in April than it is in Utah. I'd much rather ski big grain corn snow than a rotting natural snow surface" is ludicrous. It's particularly mind-boggling after viewing the last 3 months of Marc's reports.
A rotting natural snow surface is caused by isothermic snow which has not frozen overnight for some time. The snow becomes isothermic by a thinning base or saturation by rain, both of which are common in New England but rare in Utah in April.
The definitions in the statement are incorrect. True corn snow is a thin layer of small grain sun-softened snow over a firm base, resulting in a cruisable surface even more effortless than corduroy packed powder. It requires overnight freezing and uniform rapid warming, which are also infrequent at low altitude eastern areas. What easterners call corn (the term "big grain" was a dead giveaway) is the consistency of a snow cone, and skis nicely in bumps but will grab your skis and stick on the groomed or anything flat.
After fresh snow in the spring there is a 3-5 day consolidation phase before the base is firm enough to generate off-piste corn. On groomed runs the machines can make it happen overnight. Mammoth is the master of this, as I commented in my April 9-10 and May 7-8 reports. By contrast Snowbird lets nature take its course in May. If you show up 2-3 days after the last storm, as I did May 15, you'll find quite a bit of heavy unconsolidated snow, which Geoff may confuse with a rotting snow surface. If you read Marc's reports from early June you'll see Snowbird's natural corn at its peak.
The above explains why high altitude / deep snowpack western areas can produce a long and enjoyable spring season. But the point of Marc's pictures is that April (average 60-70 inches new snow) isn't even spring yet in the Cottonwood Canyons much of the time. And all lifts and runs will be open with normal winter maintenance to the end of April or closing date if earlier.
Because of the Back Bowls' exposure I have only skied Vail in December and January. But there is abundant terrain at Vail with north exposure, and on most sunny spring days the various bowl aspects can probably be timed for optimal conditions.
A rotting natural snow surface is caused by isothermic snow which has not frozen overnight for some time. The snow becomes isothermic by a thinning base or saturation by rain, both of which are common in New England but rare in Utah in April.
The definitions in the statement are incorrect. True corn snow is a thin layer of small grain sun-softened snow over a firm base, resulting in a cruisable surface even more effortless than corduroy packed powder. It requires overnight freezing and uniform rapid warming, which are also infrequent at low altitude eastern areas. What easterners call corn (the term "big grain" was a dead giveaway) is the consistency of a snow cone, and skis nicely in bumps but will grab your skis and stick on the groomed or anything flat.
After fresh snow in the spring there is a 3-5 day consolidation phase before the base is firm enough to generate off-piste corn. On groomed runs the machines can make it happen overnight. Mammoth is the master of this, as I commented in my April 9-10 and May 7-8 reports. By contrast Snowbird lets nature take its course in May. If you show up 2-3 days after the last storm, as I did May 15, you'll find quite a bit of heavy unconsolidated snow, which Geoff may confuse with a rotting snow surface. If you read Marc's reports from early June you'll see Snowbird's natural corn at its peak.
The above explains why high altitude / deep snowpack western areas can produce a long and enjoyable spring season. But the point of Marc's pictures is that April (average 60-70 inches new snow) isn't even spring yet in the Cottonwood Canyons much of the time. And all lifts and runs will be open with normal winter maintenance to the end of April or closing date if earlier.
Because of the Back Bowls' exposure I have only skied Vail in December and January. But there is abundant terrain at Vail with north exposure, and on most sunny spring days the various bowl aspects can probably be timed for optimal conditions.
Marc_C
Active member
Well, let's take a look at the horrible conditions on Alta's closing day last season. The 2003/2004 season was a pretty poor snow year - we had over 200" less snow than this season; only 495". As you can see in the link below, closing day really sucked.Admin":382eyt2l said:
Alta 2004 closing day
Marc_C
Active member
Contrary to popular belief, full strength beer is easily available - just not in the supermarkets or C-stores. If you pick your brands carefully, it's nearly the same price as in the Northeast. EG: Sam Adams here is fairly expensive, but Sierra Nevada (a superior brew, imho) is about what I paid for it when I lived in CT.Geoff":3utg5fon said:
Regarding "wimpy" 3.2 beer - POP QUIZ!.......What is the average alcohol content of "full strength" beer?
(Answers must be specified in percentage by weight or by volume. Home brewers, food scientists, and people in the albev industry are disqualified!)
8)
I got the "Spring Thermodynamics" lesson from the late Jack Mason at Winter Park in 2002. That year was very lean in much of Colorado and the snowpack went isothermic in late March (normally its peak there) and collapsed shortly thereafter.
This is a very rare occurrence on well-preserved mountains. The classic example was Mammoth in 1996-97, which had 385 inches of snow from November to January and only 12 inches thereafter. I skied there on Memorial weekend and the 60+% of the mountain that faces north was still well covered with good conditions for that time of year. Some of the east and west exposures had lost cover in 4 dry months.
I developed an eye for spring snow by necessity, as that is the expectation in Southern California mountains within days or even hours after the last storm. And sometimes the weather does not cooperate to produce the desired corn. The last big SoCal storm this year was in late February, and when I made it to Baldy a few days later it was the unconsolidated mashed potatoes off-piste, so I had to stick to the groomers and moguls.
All through March my friend Garry Klassen reported variable and difficult off-trail surfaces despite the deep 10-foot base. But in April clear weather with freezing nights finally kicked in and Baldy had great corn all month. Mt. Baldy on April 16 had roughly equivalent conditions to what Marc reported from Alta/Snowbird June 4 .
This is a very rare occurrence on well-preserved mountains. The classic example was Mammoth in 1996-97, which had 385 inches of snow from November to January and only 12 inches thereafter. I skied there on Memorial weekend and the 60+% of the mountain that faces north was still well covered with good conditions for that time of year. Some of the east and west exposures had lost cover in 4 dry months.
I developed an eye for spring snow by necessity, as that is the expectation in Southern California mountains within days or even hours after the last storm. And sometimes the weather does not cooperate to produce the desired corn. The last big SoCal storm this year was in late February, and when I made it to Baldy a few days later it was the unconsolidated mashed potatoes off-piste, so I had to stick to the groomers and moguls.
All through March my friend Garry Klassen reported variable and difficult off-trail surfaces despite the deep 10-foot base. But in April clear weather with freezing nights finally kicked in and Baldy had great corn all month. Mt. Baldy on April 16 had roughly equivalent conditions to what Marc reported from Alta/Snowbird June 4 .
Jonny D
New member
Patrick":1tlgatkk said:Marc_C":1tlgatkk said:
To Geoff and Marc,
I though ALL American beer were "wimpy".:wink:
Most Canadians beers are at 5%, some are at 6.2% if I not mistaken. Some Micro-breweries are higher.
Amen! Nothing like some "Fin du Monde" to keep your heart warm on a cold winter night.... if you can handle the taste.
