big sky 1/24/06

[ChrisC]

I thought I could add a few more things for the comparison of Mammoth vs. Big Sky.

Snow Coverage.
Both are rocky, above tree-line mountains. However, Mammoth's denser and more copious snow really covers the rocks. Big Sky is not so lucky. You will likely find some rocks here. (I visited under optimal conditions in March - 36-48" new with a 120"+ base -- and they were plenty to be found).

Skier Density.
Big Sky is a huge mountain. However, I do not think it even gets the 400,000 skier days that Telluride or Jackson Hole. And not even close to the 1 million+ Mammoth sees. I think Big Sky is still near 300,000.
Therefore, there are a lot fresh tracks to be had on powder days - especially the further away from the resort center/tram. There was plenty of 2 day old powder to be had when I visited. Mammoth is definitely tracked out in a day.

Tram issues.
The tram is a bottleneck. On powder days, you can expect 30-45 min wait all day. Almost till close of business. This is primarily due to the small 25 person cars. However, without the tram the expert skiing is really reduced - there is still good stuff off Challenger - esp the hike up it's ridge. Mammoth does not really have any bottlenecks - more like crowded areas in the zone between Canyon-to-Main Lodge.

 

[Patrick]

However, without the tram the expert skiing is really reduced - there is still good stuff off Challenger - esp the hike up it's ridge.

The advantage about long liftlines is that fresh tracks last longer.

Runs off Challenger are steeps, not in the same league as stuff off the Lone Peak, but still fun. There is also Moonlight Basin's two top lift on each side of the Headwaters.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Excellent points by Chris.

Mammoth is back up to 1.5 million in good years. Mammoth's lift to terrain ratio is not too high for skier density, but it is high enough for obvious powder to get tracked out within several hours. Lift lines are noticeably shorter than other big destinations (Vail, Whistler, Alta/Snowbird, Squaw)

The Lone Peak Tram holds 15 people. I view this as a severe flaw. On a powder day at Jackson Hole you can blow off the tram line and find all kinds of great powder runs, only missing Rendezvous Bowl. But give up the tram at Big Sky and you're missing out on probably 75% of the best terrain.

It's kind of weird, because aside from that tram Big Sky is as empty a mountain of that size as you'll ever see. And Moonlight is even more deserted. Combined with its north exposure, I'll bet there is powder to be had there (barring wind effect) several days after a storm.

 

[ChrisC]

The advantage about long liftlines is that fresh tracks last longer.

The Lone Peak Tram holds 15 people. I view this as a severe flaw.

I understand the point about over capacity on that type of terrain. However, I think the trams are just too small.

I don't think they really understood how popular the tram was going to be. For example, they built seats on a few sides. However, no one can sit if they pack the car to its maximum 15. In fact, when the car is full -- you are pushed into the seats, causing you to almost falling over since the window is far away.

Just capacity wise....Assume one car every 6 minutes (3 min/trip + loading/unloading). 15 * 10 = 150 skiers/hour
My understanding is that lift capacity for traditional lifts are generally multiples of 600. Double = 1200 skiers/hr. Triple = 1800. Quad = 2400. Even the single chair at Mad River is 500.

The historic restoration will have the same lift capacity, about 500 skiers per hour, as the current single chair. To the untrained eye it will look virtually identical to the existing lift but will have new and restored components. Source: http://www.madriverglen.com/single/?Pag ... .html&dir=.

With all that terrain from Lone Peak, I think Big Sky could place 500 skiers/hour --- especially since the resort encourages 'sightseers' to take a look (ie: beginners/intermediates).

 

[Admin]

The Lone Peak Tram holds 15 people. I view this as a severe flaw.

They're building an alternative:

http://www.firsttracksonline.com/index. ... e&sid=2716

 

[Tony Crocker]

The Dakota lift is located on the south face of Lone Mountain below Liberty Bowl.

This will make it easier to run laps through Bavarian Forest and the new Dakota terrain on powder days. It's no higher than the existing Shedhorn lift, and thus will have no impact whatsoever on the tram bottleneck.

The second lift, planned for construction next year will take skiers up to the Yeti Traverse accessing Big Sky’s famous wide-open, steep, above tree-line runs like Marx, Lenin and the Dictator Chutes.

This is the one that will make a difference. I would recommend expert skiers wait until it is built before revisiting Big Sky. Impact will be similar to the installation of Chair 23 at Mammoth in summer 1982 (Gondola lines were often 30-45 minutes before then). They will need to do some work to keep Yeti Traverse passable with the increased traffic though.

 

[ChrisC]

Hopefully the 2 lifts will allow access to the expert areas as well without riding Shedhorn. Otherwise that might be 3 slow lifts -- not really a better option of catwalk to Lone Peak triple to Lone Peak tram. Nothing a traverse could not solve.

So the skiing is almost 360 off Lone Peak now?

It's too bad Big Sky and Moonlight cannot come to a better, more economical lift ticket to take advantage of this. An $89 combined 'Lone Peak' lift ticket really makes that option economically unsustainable.

 

[Patrick]

Funny that Hamdog TR is still alive. After all this time we get a picture of some the terrain we skied on.

I might be mistaken, I think Hamdog (the ex-local) would know for sure, but I believe we made all the way to that slight opening in the Bavarian Forest just left of the bottom proposed lift and moving away from it. Yep, I ended far from the lift in the woods and seperated. Wondering if someone had fucked up and gotten lost. (not Hamdog, of course, he was our tour guide). :wink:

See the first post to understand what I'm talking about.

 

[Tony Crocker]

With regard to Patrick's question we both hit the roped boundary line and followed it to Shedhorn. Patrick was in a wind or skier packed gully. Hamdog and I were trying to find untracked in the trees down there, even though the snow was a bit thick, and got separated.

I believe the Vuarnet cliffs in that picture will prevent a traverse from top of Shedhorn to base of the upper lift. If the picture is accurate it is a 3 lift circuit. But top of Marx or Lenin to bottom of Shedhorn is a 3,000 vertical fall line, so I'll take the 3 lift circuit over the current 2 lifts + half hour wait for the tram any day.

 

[ChrisC]

I believe the Vuarnet cliffs in that picture will prevent a traverse from top of Shedhorn to base of the upper lift. If the picture is accurate it is a 3 lift circuit. But top of Marx or Lenin to bottom of Shedhorn is a 3,000 vertical fall line, so I'll take the 3 lift circuit over the current 2 lifts + half hour wait for the tram any day.

The lift renderings were mine

The photo was from the Big Sky website http://www.bigskyresort.com/ontheslopes ... dakota.jpg

The cliff band definitely limits one-lift laps to just Liberty or Dakota areas. However, I think you could run laps with the 2 new lifts (red, some lift routes in dots)....with a traverse back (green).