DISTURBING TRENDS

TONY C MAKE'S A GOOD POINT ABOUT THE ADAPTATION FOR THE WRONG REASON(S) ... I BELIEVE IT IS FOR THE WRONG REASON, BUT WE WILL HAVE TO SEE... I 'M NOT A K LOCAL, BUT IN SPEAKING WITH LOCALS FROM LAST 2 SEASON THE GENERAL PERCEPTIONS SEEM TO BE 1) THEY MADE LESS SNOW OVERALL 2) THEY SPREAD OUT THE SNOWMAKING ( TERRAIN WISE,) AND CONCENTRATED IT ( MAYBE MORE SO IN THE PAST ) PRIOR TO JAN 15TH. THE " SPREAD BEING FOR THE OBVIOUS MORE AVAILABLE TERRAIN BOAST... THEY LOVE TO HIT THAT " 200 TRAIL " MARK ON THE RADIO SPOTS ... PATRICK AND FRANKIE MAKE VERY VALID POINTS THAT HAVE BEEN ARGUED BY THE ENVIROMENTALISTS FOR YEARS NOW IN TERMS OF ENERY CONSUMPTION AND PRODUCTION IN THIS COUNTRY.... AND I AM VERY CONSERVATIVE ON MOST ISSUES, I LIKE TO THINK OF MYSELF AS A GREEN CONSERVATIVE...THE ONLY THING PROBLEMATIC ABOUT THE ENERGY PRODUCTION/ DEMAND/ CONSUMPTION/ DISPARITY PUT FORTH BY THE GREENIES IS THAT WHILE IT IS ALL TRUE, THE FACT IS THIS COUNTRY IS ONE OF THE HIGHEST PRODUCERS OF GOODS AND SERVICES... A NATURAL DEMAND FOR ENERGY IS THE LOGICAL EXTENSION OF BEING THE LEADER IN THE WORLD IN PRODUCTION...I SUPPOSE ANY ACTIVITY THAT REQUIRES ENERGY BEARS SOME BRUNT OF THE BLAME...BUT THE POINT IS WELL TAKEN ABOUT THE FOOLISH FORD EXCURSIONS OWNED BY A 1 2 OR 3 PERSON FAMILY....GOT 6 KIDS?, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH YOU OWNING AN EXCURSION...JUST YOU, YEAH YOU PROBABLY SHOULD BE HIT WITH SOME SORT OF POLLUTION PENALTY.... I'LL CLOSE ON THIS POINT THOUGH WITH THE INFAMOUS HIPOCRACY OF THE LEFT WHICH HAS RECENTLY REARED IT'S HEAD ONCE AGAIN IN THE PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF MASSACHUSETTS.... THE PROPOSED WIND FARM OFFSHORE OF CAPE COD, WHICH HAS THE POTENTIAL TO PRODUCE GREEN ENERGY AT THE EXPENSE OF ALTERING A FEW FISH SCHOOLS DIRECTION OF TRAVEL, IS UNDER VICIOUS ATTACK BY THE NOTORIOUSLY LIBERAL ELITE WHO CRY BLOODY MURDER ABOUT NO ARCTIC DRILLING, BUT ALSO REFUSE TO CONSIDER A WIND FARM... CHUMPS LIKE WALTER CRONKITE ( EXPOSED AS A RAGING LEFTIE RECENTLY ) WHO WOULD HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE HORROR OF A WINDFARM 30 MILES OFFSHORE OF HIS ESTATE ON THE <BR>" VINEYARD " MAKE ME SICK.... AND JONNY D'S POINT ABOUT INCREASING THE PRICES I WOULD AGREE WITH.. LIKE I SAID, THE 299 THAT I AM PAYING K TO SKI THIS UPCOMING SEASON... I ADMITT IT ,I'M GONNA KILL EM ON IT....I WOULD RATHER PAY 599 AND HAVE EM BLOW SNOW INTO MARCH.... AND NO I AM NOT INSENSITVE TO FAMILIES TRYING TO SKI ON A BUDGET.... I DON'T HAVE KIDS, BUT WHEN I DO, YOU CAN BET YOUR ASS I WON'T BE TAKING EM TO K TO LEARN TO SKI FOR 50 TO 65 A POP... LITTLE ONE'S DON'T NEED 200 TRAILS AND 31 LIFTS AND HIGH SPEED GONDY'S AND 6 BASE LODGES AND GOURMET WAFFLE STANDS AND ALL THAT CRAP, SO THE OPTIONS ARE THERE FOR THAT
 
Yeah, I agree with your points. <BR> <BR>especially the 2nd section : prices : yep, it's incredible how cheap are some season passes now. How could they make money with that. Ok, it's good for them of course to have the money sooner, so they have more $$ to make snowmaking and don't need to take some debts at 10% of interests while they have 2-3% interest in the banks deposit certificates or so... but C'MON !!! think at Long Term. If you use skiers to pay super cheap for skiing, when the ski areas will understand that those passes are not some good ideas, cause people ski 25 times and don't pay, they won't be able to return on bigger prices. <BR> <BR>The only way to correct the situation would be to increase of let's say 20$ by year the price for few years until it becomes more decent without losing too much sales ! <BR> <BR> <BR>Children : I think that Cochran's, Rigaud, Vallée-Bleue and the ski areas in the kind are some of the best places to learn skiing. Bringing a child to Killington is the best thing to make him hate skiing until the rest of his life, IMO. I've been almost traumatisated by my 1st day at Tremblant, in 1989 (was 8 y/o) even before Intrawest ! (imagine... it was the 1st year (or 2nd?) of the 1st HSQ of the mountain) The place where I really learned to ski is Mt Avila, a little mountain.
 
Children and Skiing: <BR> <BR>Of course, I won't bring my daughter (she turning 6 this week) at Killington. However it would simply be due to the price of the lift-ticket for me and the drive. She doesn't need to endure a 3hours drive to go skiing. <BR> <BR>However, she has skied Whiteface (at 3yrs old) and Tremblant twice (at 4yrs old). She wasn't traumatise by her days, but I had deal on lift tickets. The best way to traumatise a child (or any beginner) is to bring them on trails that they shouldn't be on. Tremblant and Whiteface has great early beginner terrain. <BR> <BR>This said, I agree to smaller hills are better for her and for our budget. The hills are smaller, but also closer and cheaper.
 
Yeah, happy birthday in advance to M*****e !! <BR> <BR>Trauma : It's more the crowd than the trails that could traumatise a child actually at Tremblant, IMO. I Don't know if Whiteface is crowded as Tremblant (don't think so), but at the big T, you can't make a turn without risking to be hit by someone else, especially in the groomed trails including the beginner ones. <BR> <BR>BTW, as I talk of Tremblant, the 2 new trails will both be black diamond. The "Supérieur" beside the CBC and the "Griffe" beside the Windigo. <BR> <BR>Little ski areas can also be funnier and more challenging... but there is probably only 1 little ski area that can kick the ssa of the big resorts of its wide area <IMG SRC="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"><IMG SRC="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"><IMG SRC="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"> (or 2 if I consider Shefford as a little one).
 
Just to add my two cents to this conversation: <BR> <BR>In January of 2002 I took a week vacation at Killington, and enrolled my son (2 years old at the time) in there superstar program. This was only his second time skiing and he had a great time!! The people at the day care were very friendly and helpfull with my son. Killington was the only resort at the time that would accept him at that age, so despite being a little worried about teaching him there, it worked our perfectly. <BR>I agree that smaller mountains are better for children, but larger resorts deserve a chance as well. This year I have come to an agreement with my wife that the best place to spend a week in January with our son would be Smugglers Notch.
 
Talking of Smuggler's Notch... and of some disturbing trends, there is another one actually and Smuggs is a good example, actually. <BR> <BR>Look at their trail map and you'll know what I'm talking about. They marked about 7-8 glades which are in the good spots of the Madonna side. <BR> <BR>Personnaly, I don't really care to talk of my spots in the websites for maniacs like me, but to show them on the trail map is another thing, cause now everyone know where they are and this bring some skiers & boarders that really don't have nothing to do there and that scrap all the coverage.
 
I've never been to Smuugler's Notch but they seem to put most of their emphasis on thier kid's programs. My son also had his first day of skiing instruction at Killington when he was barely 3 and it worked out well. <BR> <BR>Later that winter we spent a week in Park City, Utah. As I was calling around looking for a condo or house to rent close to PC, one of the rental property owners told me that they had a terrible kids program. We shifted to Wolf Montain on his advice. <BR>My son and another 3-year-old we were with we're both riding lifts on their first day and skiing blues by the middle of the week. We met some people who had their 3-year-old daughter at Park City - they moved her over to Wolf because after 3 days at PC she couldn't even snowplow. <BR> <BR>Moral of this story: Size doesn't matter. The program does.
 
I've been down this road with 14 year old Andrew and nearly 19 year old Adam. Adam was pestering us to let him ski when he was 2, so his first day in Mammoth's Funland program was 2 weeks before his 3rd birthday and he was the only kid that stayed out the full 2 hours on a 15F and likely breezy day. Now Mammoth won't teach kids under 4 because too many small SoCal children are intimidated by the weather. <BR> <BR>Andrew has a more casual attitude toward skiing/snowboarding and is progressing slowly as he does 3-5 days per season of each instead of concentrating. Adam has averaged 20 days and 360K vertical per season since age 7. He snowboarded 3-5 days a year around age 12-14, but has since gone back to alpine full time, except the week of telemark last year. <BR> <BR>For basic instruction I was impressed by Vail. Both kids were at Vail at age 5 and loved the lessons and children's terrain parks and improved greatly over 2 days of lessons. It's expensive but worth it when you see your 5-year-old cruising through 3 inches of ungroomed powder in China Bowl with a big smile on his face. <BR> <BR>For an eager 3 or 4 year old I recommend do it yourself. They get a big charge out of chairlift rides and you can cover more ground and they will progress faster. I was fortunate to have Garry Klassen, who enjoyed teaching kids at Baldy, as a consultant. I would describe what Adam was doing and Garry would tell me what to work on next. <BR> <BR>With a 3-year-old you need to use a leash and tell your child to put his hands on his knees. This keeps him from being pulled over backward, saves you from leaning over and straining your back, and most importantly teaches your kid to ski leaning forward. When you see a parent holding a child between his legs, the child leans back into the parent, which is of course the opposite of how we want them to ski. <BR> <BR>If you child is tentative or resistant, ignore the above 2 paragraphs and find a decent ski school. Our Snowbird timeshare friends have a hard and fast rule: kids attend ski school at Snowbird full time until they are age 13 or reach level 9. Adam and the other 2 level 9 kids always wanted to take a day of lessons together. <BR> <BR>For intermediate or better lessons, we prefer the hard core expert mountains because they attract the most passionate and dedicated instructors. Adam still rates his 2 days of lessons at Jackson Hole at age 10 best. The next 5 years at Snowbird rank next (I'm excluding the SMS camp at Blackcomb from this list). The lessons on the annual Snowbird trip are only time Andrew makes any progress at skiing or snowboarding.
 
Thanks for the info. My son Matt is 10 - sounds like a great reason to take him to Jackson Hole!
 
The only DISTURBING TRENDS about this, is that we won't be able to keep up with our kids in a few years. <BR> <BR>Seriously, Morgane (who turned 6 today) started skiied a half day when she was 2.5yr old (late March in wet granular snow). I was holding her between my skis. Initially, I never intended to start her that Winter, but she was so eager to go skiing. I skiied two half-days with her on my back the previous Winter. <BR> <BR>The next Winter (3yr): she skiied 8 days. Always with a leech. She liked going in the chairlift as much as skiing down. That year, we went to Whiteface twice, like Tremblant, the lower part of the mountain can be extremely crowded. However, the great things about Whiteface, is that they have a seperate area (Kids Campus)(with lift, trails and lodge/parking) away from the main area. It a great place that is never crowded. There is also some beginner area at the base of the mountain. <BR> <BR>At 4yr, she also skiied 8 times. Did Tremblant twice. She loved the long runs....and the Gondola rides. She skiied with or without a leech. She made some go progress, however she wanted to go fast and not necessarly turn (even if she could). <BR> <BR>Last year at 5yr, skiied 8 times again. Had lessons for the first time (7 x 1.5hr at Edelweiss, QC). This was done so someone else could teach her (she might listen more to a stranger and have more fum with kids her age). I guess, I didn't want to keep telling her to TURN, SLOWDOWN, etc. <BR> <BR>This Winter at 6yr, we will register her for lessons again, but at Fortune this time (9 x 2hr).
 
A disturbing trend with ASC is that Sugarloaf is not slated to open up for the season until Nov 21st!!! What the #&*% is up with ASC? this is a very late opening for this resort. Clearly ASC is not interested in pushing the ski season envelope anymore. Can someone that is interested more in SKIING than PROFIT please buy the company!! I want to vacation at Sugarloaf this year, but if they are growing stingy on snowmaking, I would rather spend my money elsewere even though it is hard to find a comparable resort.
 
Patrick : Happy birthday to Morgane !! I hope she will like Camp Fortune this year <IMG SRC="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"> <BR> <BR>You can remind her that we want to have her on the no-bulls, when she'll be 12-13 y/o <IMG SRC="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"> <BR> <BR>Kevin : Actually, ASC would probably pay you to buy the company... <IMG SRC="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"> lol <BR> <BR>In fact, the company should just close... and the ski areas should be bought by different groups. This is the only possible future for ASC anyway... so I hope they will do this fastly !!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1><B>Quote:</B></FONT><P>Always with a leech. <BR><snip> <BR>She skiied with or without a leech.<!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR>I guess that bloodsucking has its advantages. <IMG SRC="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/clipart/wink.gif">
 
I guess I should always read before posting a message. <BR> <BR>ASC (ie. Sugarloaf) will be opening around the same time as Tremblant. We know that profit comes first at Intrawest. ASC is in trouble and I guess cutting cost anyway they can. Skiing before Profit!!! What a great idea, but it is probably just a left-wing socialist propaganda (sorry, I couldn't help myself after last month election in Ontario). <BR> <BR>Yes, I agree Sugarloaf is Great. In my Top3 in the East.
 
Hey.... talking of other disturbing trends, Killington just changed their opening official projection to "LATE" october, instead of "MID" october on their website. <BR> <BR>Is it me or they do that every year ? <BR> <BR>St-So are more conservatives... they say "See you soon" in the snow conditions for a good month now. Not sure it's better... <BR> <BR>Anyway, keep your fingers crossed, skiing is coming in the next DAYS !!!!!
 
Whoaaaaa what a weird dream I did, last night <BR> <BR>I think I was going to the "Expoglisse" a ski marketing event for all the main ski areas here, including New England + West + Europe. <BR> <BR>And on the desk of Sunday River, I took a trail map.... and most of the expert terrain had been removed from the map. I mean, there was no chairlift anymore for the White Cap, for the Locke Mountain, for Aurora, Oz and the Jordan Bowl. Few other lifts had been removed and other ones were added, but mainly accessing to easy terrain. Ish, I think I seriously begin to paranoid a little bit, me... But after have seen Killington close the Sunrise side, Magic not reopen the Timberside, etc, I think that with the people coming older, we will see some terrain to be lost in the coming 2 decades... especially for the too big mountains for the local people. <BR> <BR>What do they say about that in your book, Patrick ?
 
Re: children's progress. Adam was first parallel with pole plants on Memorial Day 1991 at age 6 years 5 months, unfortunately last day of the season. At age 7 he could ski 80-90% of the terrain I do, including Spiral Stairs/Plunge at Telluride and North Face at Crested Butte that season. Observers warned me that he would leave me behind by 12, and I considered it a moral victory that I held him off until 14. <BR> <BR>Given nature of the area, November 21 opening for Sugarloaf makes sense to me. It is much more a late season mountain. ASC should push early with Sunday River and late with Sugarloaf but not vice-versa. Might be another example of a right decision for wrong reason. <BR> <BR>Recent trend in the West is definitely to open MORE high-end terrain. Recent examples: Kicking Horse, Silverton, Highlands Bowl, Delirium Dive, Jackson Hole and Telluride boundary openings.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top