Eldora, CO 11/07/2024

EMSC

Well-known member
Breaking all the rules :)

Rule #1 broken, never show up to opening day, it's a zoo
Rule #2 broken, avoid WROD (eg 1-2 trails open) if at all possible
Rule #3 broken, don't waste ski days on weekdays with limited terrain
Etc....

I'm sure it will warm up, melt half of it, etc... but for now Eldora and Colo are getting pretty plastered with snow. For Eldora: 8" from a storm a few days ago, then 17" in 48 hrs (8" in 24) heading into today. It then snowed ~4" from 9a-12p (when I left) and another big storm is expected tomorrow afternoon and into Saturday.

Of course that just makes the ambiance nice. No natural terrain is even open as yet (except at Wolf Creek 4-5hrs away). But surfaces were quite nice for opening day I must say. Despite the 'hordes' in attendance. The main lot basically filled up, before all the college kids headed back to classes abut 10:30a (my guess was ~50% were college age kids).

They had a DJ for ~3hrs and donuts and burritos (only if you got there early enough).

I am transitioning to PT style work and should be able to be a reasonable amount more flexible this season - at least for local/weekday skiing. That was in part why I went. To force the new mindset into reality as a strong reminder for the rest of my season to just go when able and conditions are good.

All in all it was worth it despite having to wait to find open slots in the crowd heading down. Though very glad it was not a Saturday opening! I think this weekend will be bad, esp Sat as with a Friday night storm that also hits Denver, I70 will be terrible pushing tons of folks to Eldora. Even with a likely one additional snowmaking trail open by then, it will still be a madhouse.

Looks almost as snowy as it finally got by mid-Jan last season. The big surprise so far (not to jinx it) is no huge wind events so far...
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Is it worth it to wait for a rope drop with 100 of your best buds on opening day? About to open Windmill for trail #3 (I didn't wait).
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Please wait your turn!
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There was a 10min lift line twice. Then calmed down to this ~2min for a while before more and more people left.
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Lots of yellow jackets and patrol around... Kinda nuking snow at times too.
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I just thought the tree looked quite scenic
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Drivers beware! Ned has the totally obnoxious cop thing going on with road speeds way down at 25mph. They used to do this constantly, then stopped bothering for at least 5+ years, and as of last year they started back up with the revenue generation nonsense.
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Green highlight=open, Blue highlight=snowmaking
Eldo Trailmap 110724.jpg
 
No natural terrain is even open as yet (except at Wolf Creek 4-5hrs away)
I would say Wolf Creek has real skiing now: 600 acres open on 64 inches snowfall and a 32 inch base. In a cursory look, I'm not finding anyone else in Colorado reporting more than 35 inches snowfall.
 
Though very glad it was not a Saturday opening! I think this weekend will be bad, esp Sat as with a Friday night storm that also hits Denver, I70
Slightly off-topic question . . . I know of an Australian family who are in Denver and driving to Winter Park on Saturday. They are staying all season so no rush. The father and daughter were at WP last spring so he knows the road. She's a tween competition level skier who will be training in Colorado this winter. What time do you think would be better in terms of traffic headed west on I-70?
 
The father and daughter were at WP last spring so he knows the road. She's a tween competition level skier who will be training in Colorado this winter. What time do you think would be better in terms of traffic headed west on I-70?
Very early if headed up I70 nearly any time of year lately. Say, passing Morrison exit by ~6:00a? I'm just guessing as there is an odd combination of not being prime season yet, but I70 will be very icy and the locals cannot play golf, bike, etc... from the storm so more will want to go... somewhere. That said I generally recommend against WP for opening weekend. They have a history of opening the flattest (like literal pan flat) stuff the first weekend or even two. WP usually gets decent natural early season so will expand faster than some other areas shortly (if the snow keeps coming).
 
I would say Wolf Creek has real skiing now: 600 acres open on 64 inches snowfall and a 32 inch base. In a cursory look, I'm not finding anyone else in Colorado reporting more than 35 inches snowfall.
I'm sure plenty of barely buried things to hit, but generally agree, WC is probably starting to ski decently.

Is the 35" Copper? They have to have at least that much (heck they had 20" from one storm alone several days ago), but their reporting has been hit or miss as to bothering to list accurate daily snowfalls on websites since they only open to the public tomorrow for the first time this season.
 
Copper's website is not reporting anything yet. The 35 is Keystone; Vail is 25. I'm surprised Eldora is only reporting 17, as I got the impression from Joel's forecasts that the Continental Divide areas have been favored. Loveland is reporting 28.
 
Very early if headed up I70 nearly any time of year lately. Say, passing Morrison exit by ~6:00a? I'm just guessing as there is an odd combination of not being prime season yet, but I70 will be very icy and the locals cannot play golf, bike, etc... from the storm so more will want to go... somewhere. That said I generally recommend against WP for opening weekend. They have a history of opening the flattest (like literal pan flat) stuff the first weekend or even two. WP usually gets decent natural early season so will expand faster than some other areas shortly (if the snow keeps coming).
They aren't going to ski this Saturday. Just need to get there to move into the lodging where they are going to stay for the entire winter. If they wait until 11am to leave Denver, would that be reasonable?
 
Copper's website is not reporting anything yet.
I show ~49" YTD, but that includes 10" Oct 21 that definitely melted on S faces and lower slopes (but stuck on N upper mtn of which Copper has a lot of terrain). That number also includes 4" for the snow they got this morning that will get reported tomorrow. Though possible that 4" number gets bigger if storm starts in the wee hours tonight (possible).

I'm surprised Eldora is only reporting 17,
That's only for the past 48 hours worth. That misses an 8" day from ~4-5 days ago that very much stuck. Could have been an additional inch or two that I didn't pay attention to. Anything prior to that in October melted out. I also noted that at least last season Eldora under reported regularly. Not sure if maybe the official stake is in a bad place, but even in the know folks up there agree that the formal reporting misses an inch or two regularly vs on-mtn experience skiing it.
 
how much of it will they open?
None of it. Copper and front range area is WAY more conservative on opening terrain. All the snow will help open it, but not for a few more weeks IMO. First make snow where they can for a long season base, then lots of ropes and signs and maybe even some patrol ski packing... and then open for the turkey week hordes to destroy.
 
None of it. Copper and front range area is WAY more conservative on opening terrain. All the snow will help open it, but not for a few more weeks IMO. First make snow where they can for a long season base, then lots of ropes and signs and maybe even some patrol ski packing... and then open for the turkey week hordes to destroy.
Yes, I will take Mammoth's 1/3 of early seasons with real quality and diversity of terrain over 100% of seasons with only WRODs until some time in December. :smileyvault-stirthepot:
 
Breaking all the rules :)

Rule #1 broken, never show up to opening day, it's a zoo
Rule #2 broken, avoid WROD (eg 1-2 trails open) if at all possible
Rule #3 broken, don't waste ski days on weekdays with limited terrain
Etc....

I would go with new snow for Stoke, a pass, and low travel hassle.

Seattle, WA, was always easy to ski early since few skiers would show up before the Christmas period, travel was only 45-90 min to anywhere, and snow was always fresh since there was no snowmaking.

I have done Thanksgiving at Telluride a few times. It's fun if it snows. But they have put less effort into things in the early season, recently canceling the successful Arizona Days and barely getting the top of Chr 6/9 open. (Hell, Telluride's management puts no effort into anything—the owner even trial ballooned making it a private club just a few years ago. We are waiting on Father Time for changes to occur.)

For the East Coast, I am not sure how early November is different than mid-January. There is less terrain but fewer skiers - mostly always on a snowmaking base.
 
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Well, I guess Nederland, CO is going communist and trying to annex Eldora. And can spend more on resort improvements than NY State on Belleayre, Gore, and Whiteface. Why not? Bend, OR is doing the same thing. I guess it's not government control of a private corporation if it's done through a public-private partnership.

Can Telluride, CO, annex Telluride Ski Resort?


Town of Nederland, Colorado


By now, you might have heard about Nederland looking at possibly acquiring Eldora from the Mountain-Ear's article: https://www.themtnear.com/.../nederland-eyes-acquiring...
There's still a lot to figure out, and we imagine that there's still a lot of questions regarding this move. For this reason, we have put together an FAQ to go into more detail behind the reasoning, risks, and opportunities of this pursuit.
A text version of the full FAQ can be found below:
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What is the purpose of the Eldora Mountain Acquisition?
The Town of Nederland is considering the acquisition of Eldora Ski Mountain to foster new community-centric benefits, including improved local recreational opportunities, economic growth, and sustainability. The acquisition would enable the town to control the use of the mountain area for activities beyond the current winter sports, such as concerts, night skiing, as well as summer events. It also provides an incentive to encourage the development of complementary industries within the town, such as hospitality and outdoor recreation services, and to potentially encourage related outdoor recreation businesses, such as outdoor product manufacturing. As part of owning the ski mountain, the town would emphasize environmental sustainability and social equity, including affordable access for locals and workforce housing.
However, to be clear, no decisions have been made and we are working through a process. There are currently no agreements or contracts between the Town of Nederlnand and POWDR, the owners of Eldora.
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How will owning Eldora benefit the public and Eldora staff?
Nederland's ownership of Eldora Ski Mountain presents several public and staff benefits:
Local Control: The town can ensure that Eldora aligns with the community's values, emphasizing environmental sustainability (e.g., renewable energy, water conservation), social equity (e.g., accessibility and affordable pricing for residents), and responsible growth. Nederland's ownership of Eldora Ski Mountain can differentiate it from the corporate ski areas by making Eldora a locally owned, community-centric "Locals" mountain that serves its broader community while welcoming visitors.
Economic Development: Eldora would offer a new source of revenue for the town. Additionally, the town's ownership of Eldora would open up opportunities for other types of economic development, including local business growth by offering year-round opportunities for residents to enjoy and benefit from. By hosting more events and activities, especially in the summer, the resort can help reduce overcrowding in other popular areas like Hessie Trail, while also offering better opportunities for local businesses to thrive with the influx of summer visitors. With more community-focused events and programs, residents can enjoy Eldora as a gathering place, contributing to a more vibrant and sustainable local economy.
Affordable Housing & Childcare: The town could integrate workforce housing development into the acquisition plan, addressing one of the critical challenges faced by Eldora employees and the community at large. This could lead to affordable housing solutions that benefit both resort employees and residents. This would also be true for childcare. Having Eldora employees as part of the "Nederland Family" can ensure we are providing collective services to enhance the lives of everyone.
High Quality Benefits for Eldora Staff: It is no secret that government agencies carry great benefits for their employees. If Nederland owned Eldora, we may be able to extend this same benefit to Eldora staff. Certain benefits can be more cost-effectively improved with greater employee numbers. One example of this owuld be retirement benefits. The town's ability to move to Colorado PERA, for example, would be more cost-effective with a larger number of employees. In turn, a Colorado PERA retirement benefit could be continued by a Town or Eldora employee if that employee came from or went to work for the State of Colorado, many school districts, and many counties and municipalities throughout Colorado.
Year-Round Offerings: By owning Eldora, Nederland would be positioned to consider improving year-round access to the mountain. We want to make it clear that we would fully consider and weigh the impacts of such an option, and that it would be in line with community goals.
Reinvestment in Community Services: Some of the profits generated by Eldora would be reinvested into local community projects, improving infrastructure, public services, and recreational amenities.
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Will Nederland collect sales tax from Eldora?
If Nederland acquires Eldora, Nederland will not collect sales tax as Eldora is outside the town's jurisdiction. To collect sales tax, the town would have to annex the Eldora Resort property into town limits. However, annexation is not required to purchase it.
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How will climate change impact owning and operating a ski resort?
The viability of Eldora as a ski resort depends on consistent snowfall, which is increasingly threatened by climate change. To help mitigate this, the town would explore investments in more renewable energy for resort operations and secure essential snowmaking resources to improve snowmaking systems. At the same time, the town and ski area would also pursue activities beyond winter sports, including mountain biking, concerts, as well as summer events.
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How will the acquisition be funded?
The town is considering several funding mechanisms for the Eldora acquisition. We are currently building a coalition of supporters, investors, and partners to help us create a responsible capital stack. here is our current thinking:
Grants: We are pursuing various federal and state grants aimed at economic development, environmental conservation, rural infrastructure, and workforce development. These grants have the potential to help us raise tens of millions of dollars.
Public-Private Partnerships (PPPs): The town will partner with a private entity or entities experienced in managing ski resorts. In exchange for providing capital, the private partner(s) might share in the profits or be given a management contract.
Crowdfunding and Sponsorships: Perhaps one of the strategies we are most excited about is community crowdfunding. This would allow locals to contribute to the acquisition in exchange for perks (e.g., lifetime ski passes). Corporate sponsorships and naming rights for ski trails or lodges would also bring in additional revenue.
Philanthropy and Impact Investing: The town will also seek contributions from philanthropists or engage with impact investors interested in generating positive social and environmental returns.
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What are the legal and financial risks of this investment?
The town is aware that acquiring a ski resort involves several risks, including those listed below. The town will fully assess all these risks before moving forward with any plans or agreements.
Financial: If the resort does not generate the expected revenues, the town would bear financial losses. Eldora's profitability is subject to factors such as weather conditions, toursim demand, and operational costs. The town must carefully evaluate Eldora's current financial state, including debts, revenue streams, and required capital improvements.
Legal: The town would need to thoroughly review any contacts related to land ownership and operational agreements with Eldora's parent company, POWDR. Legal liabilities, such as pending lawsuits, environemntal compliance, or worker safety issues, must also be evaluated.
Operational: Nederland currently lacks the expertise to manage the ski resort, so it could face operational inefficiencies. Therefore, we plan to partner with a private entity and hire experienced management to mitigate this risk. One option would be to retain the current Eldora resort management team.
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How will the town manage the ski mountain if acquired?
The current thought is the town will outsource management to a private company with ski resort experience, allowing Nederland to retain ownership while delegating operational responsibilities.
What is the long-term visiton for Eldora?
The town envisitions Eldora as a locally owned, community-focused, and sustainable destination. This includes:
Environmental Stewardship: A strong focus on long-term sustainability, reducing the environmental impact of ski operations through renewable energy and conservation efforts.
Economic Reinvestment: Some of the profits generated by the resort would be reinvested in local projects, improving town infrastructure, public services, and recreational facilities.
Cultural Integration: Eldora would serve as a cultural hub, hosting events, concerts, and community gatherings.
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What happens if the project does not perform as expected?
If Eldora underperforms, the town has several contingency plans:
Diversifying Revenue: To mitigate risk, the town will explore alternative revenue sources, such as summer events, partnerships, and eco-tourism packages.
Public-Private Partnerships: Sharing financial and operational risk with private entities would lessen the burden on both Nederland and the partner.
Grant Strategies: The town will pursue long-term, stable grant funding to offset operational costs during challenging financial periods, and especially as we are getting started.
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How will citizens be involved in the decision-making process?
We need the community to be involved throughout this process. The town will prioritize transparency and public engagement. Citizens will be involved through:
Public Meetings: Regular town meetings will provide updates on the acquisition process, financial status, and operational decisions.
Participatory Budgeting: The community may have the opportunity to vote on how profits from Eldora are reinvested into local projects.
A Possible Citizen Advisory Committee: A non-partisan oversight committee made up of residents would ensure long-term accountability and transparency in decision-making.
How will the town address the infrastructure needs of Eldora?
A thorough assessment of Eldora’s infrastructure will be conducted to identify critical areas for improvement, including lifts, snowmaking systems, trails, lodges, and maintenance facilities. The town will:
Conduct a Comprehensive Audit: An audit will review the current state of infrastructure and prioritize necessary upgrades, particularly focusing on safety and operational efficiency.
Leverage Funding Sources: Grants, municipal bonds, and PPPs (private-public partnerships) will be explored and pursued to fund infrastructure improvements, ensuring that the town does not carry the financial burden alone.
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How much will Eldora sell for?
Based on sales of other mountains, we expect the cost to be around $100M - $200M.
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How do we focus on our own infrastructure needs while also now bringing a new, potentially infrastructure-heavy asset, like Eldora, under Nederland ownership?
We are thinking about this question a lot. Even if we don’t end up acquiring Eldora, we are putting tactics in place to address ongoing infrastructure needs. Likely you’ve seen better streets operations this summer with our Summer Streets Rehabilitation program and our Public Works department continues to make upgrades and replacements at our wastewater treatment plant. With it being budget season, Town is considering pulling some reserves to address certain infrastructure needs in 2025.
With that said, acquiring Eldora would also enable Town to reinvest in our own infrastructure, through greater revenue generation both from the mountain itself and from better management of the visitors to Eldora that drive through Nederland. It is no secret that visitors to Eldora place a heavy toll on the town's roads, but the town also benefits when these visitors stop and support our small businesses. We envision a future where we continue to welcome visitors to Eldora and leverage that visitation, equipping Nederland with greater resources and revenue to address the infrastructure needs of the town and its residents.
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What if we made Eldora the center of a Recreational District?
Yes. It would be the flagship of a future Nederland Recreation District.
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Is Eldora profitable?
Determining the profitability of Eldora Mountain Resort is a crucial step in our evaluation process. As we advance, we will conduct a thorough review of the resort's financial statements to assess its financial health and sustainability. This due diligence will be integral to our decision-making as we consider potential actions regarding the acquisition of the resort.
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Who will be responsible for negotiations to acquire Eldora? How do we manage the time it will take versus also focusing on other important matters?
Currently, Mayor Billy, Mayor Pro Tem Sterling, Town Manager, Jon Cain, and Town Attorney, Jennifer Madsen have been the primary contacts for conversations with the parties involved in Eldora’s sale. They have also been the communication bridge into the Board of Trustees. We expect our circle of expertise to expand as we move deeper into conversations.
Town Manager, Jon Cain, will be the main point of contact with the community and investors. If we see his time is overwhelmingly being usurped by the acquisition of Eldora, then we will make pivots to Jon’s scope of work to ensure he can focus on these higherlevel strategic projects for the town.
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Will the town acquire dept for this acquisition?
Town will investigate all funding mechanisms. However, our intent is to prioritize funding that does not incur debt.
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What talent do we have within Town to help make the decisions around acquiring Eldora?
The acquisition of Eldora will require folks with multiple diverse backgrounds. The Board of Trustees and town staff currently have folks with finance, operations, and over $100M acquisition experience. However, as we move further into the process our circle of expertise will expand to ensure we are mitigating all necessary risks.
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What are the next steps?
Town is pulling together a coalition of supporters, investors, and partners in order to show POWDR we are willing and able to become Eldora’s new future. If you are an investor or know an investor who believes in our concept of a sustainably driven, locally owned, and community-centered mountain resort, please contact our Town Administrator, Jon Cain at townadmin@nederlandco.org.
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A final message from the Board of Trustees
“Never underestimate the power of a small group of committed people to change the world. In fact, it is the only thing that ever has.” - Margaret Mead
Nederland, we are excited about the possibilities that lie ahead and we recognize there is a lot to work through. We know we still have a lot of information to gather and review. We know we need to balance our current needs with the needs of our future. However, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity. Eldora represents a natural and cultural icon in our backyard and if there is anyone who should take it under their care and nurture it, it’s us, who see ourselves as a town inside a park.
As we build a strong foundation of advisors and investors to help guide us in gathering and assessing information, we also invite you—our community—to share your thoughts, support, or concerns. Please reach out to us at bot@nederlandco.org or join us at our Board of Trustees meeting on Tuesday, November 19th at 7:00 pm.
 
One thing is for certain. If Ned acquires Eldora it will turn into a disaster. That town has no central identity that everyone is going to sing kum-by-yah and agree on how to use or upgrade the hill. Half the town wishes Eldora would either shut down entirely or at least go back to being what they were 20 years ago with tiny skier visits. A big chunk of Eldora is on Boulder County land so good luck annexing it from a group of commissioners that HATES Eldora or any improvements going on up there. Without annexing it, half or more of the proposed community uses will never happen. Even with annexation since more than half of Eldora is NFS land anyone with a stamp can protest any improvements or changes. And let me tell you just how many bats--t crazy people live in that area who are full NIMBY on any changes at all for anything or any reason in the whole area, etc...

And that's before getting into all the financial issues of that town.

I did hear Boyne had some folks look at it. No idea if that means they will actually try to buy it or not. Haven't heard about any other groups/operators but heard through grapevine that there were a decent number that wanted the sales pitch paper work at the start of the process (like maybe a couple dozen?).
 
The obvious comparison models for community nonprofit ski areas are Bridger Bowl and Bogus Basin. Both are very successful but I know no nuts and bolts details of their governance. But wading through ChrisC's post made me skeptical that the city of Nederland is the right entity to run Eldora. EMSC is a true local and if he's that negative I'm sure it's a bad idea. But somebody should analyze Bridger and Bogus to see why they are successful.
 
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