Yes IMHO. There are a lot of tunnels through the Alps. Driving over mountain passes is far less frequent than in North America. At least Geneva and Zurich rental usually have snow tires.
Europe 23/24
- Thread starter Sbooker
- Start date
Yes. And Munich. It’s Milan’s big shortfall.
I think I’ll wait a couple of days to check the forecast and then do a swap.
Tuesday 23 January 2024 – Remaining mild in the Alps, but changeable in the north…
The weather in the northern Alps remains unsettled. One set of showers (snow 1000-1200m) is currently sitting over Austria, but will clear eastwards this afternoon, while another is due to move into the northwestern Alps later this afternoon, but with a rain/snow limit rising to 2000m. In between there will be some sunny spells, as there will be more generally across the southern Alps.
Snow this morning in Warth am Arlberg, which will clear eastwards later
The weather front expected later this afternoon will be much weaker than the last, delivering just a few centimetres of snow at best across some higher parts of the north-western Alps.
The rest of this week will continue in the same vein, staying mild with weak weather fronts occasionally grazing the northern Alps, and the most consistently sunny skies in the southern Alps.
In terms of snow conditions, there is still a lot of snow at altitude in the northern Alps, with over 3m above 2500m in resorts as geographically diverse as La Rosière, Chamonix, Laax and StAnton. Lower down in the northern Alps snow cover is generally more modest, and often patchy at very low altitudes thanks to fluctuating temperatures and intermittent rain.
Most southern Alpine resorts (e.g. Selva, Monte Rosa, Sestriere) are well below par in terms of snow depth, though have been offering more consistent snow conditions over recent days and weeks, at least on-piste, thanks to the less volatile and (crucially) less humid climate of the southern Alps.
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I will be skiing Zermatt next week. I am interested in recommendations on which skis to bring. I have a whole selection in my basement. However realistically, I have to pick 2. I will be doing a freeride tour one day, therefore I am bring my Rossi Senders that are my powder/off piste skis. I have a 90 mm underfoot mid with ski and a 74 mm underfoot carving ski. Any thoughts on which would be better there for the daily ski? Looks like most skiing is on the groomers, although I will take the opportunity to ski the ungroomed when I can.
So five of us will be in the Alps next week? Skieric, Tony, Sbooker, ChrisC, and I?
Next time we should coordinate as it looks like we will all be scattered around different areas.
Zermatt is considered southern for weather patterns (by WePowder also), and much of the off piste sectors are boulder fields that need lots of coverage. Fraser was discouraging Zermatt for off piste when I last inquired about 10 days ago.
As far a skis go, I can't whether to go down to 74mm. If your 90mm is not a good groomer ski, then yes. My 98mm Bonafides are still a decent groomer ski IMHO so I have not been motivated to buy thinner. That said, I've been at a few Mammoth demos when it hasn't snowed in a couple of weeks and some of the 80ish skis have been optimal, notably Stockli and Kastle.
And Liz.
Edit. I think she has a handle on here?
Yes and I wish that she'd post more regularly! She often has a different and valuable take on what Tony mentions here.
Such a lovely lady too. My kids met her at dinner quite a few years ago at Mammoth. The result is they now always affectionately say ‘risotto’ with a strong American accent.
For those heading to Europe next week remember to pack the sun glasses and sun screen!
I bet I can nail a good impression of that!
A good consolation prize at our destination: #1 for snow preservation.
Hopefully it preserves well into April.
Val D should be a nice place to be next week.
How is Zermatt not on that snow preservation list? Next door Saas-Fee is a smaller version with almost identical snowfall, altitude and exposure characteristics.
Obergurgl is the one I would swap out due to its lopsided west exposure. Everyone else on that list has lots of north exposure except Lech/Zurs. But Lech/Zurs has some east facing that will soften up in spring mornings when Obergurgl remains bulletproof. And of course Lech/Zurs has very high snowfall.
I know my views on Obergurgl are controversial. But Val d’Isere and Zermatt have by far the most ski terrain over 2,500 meters in the Alps and in both cases much of it north facing. So I find Zermatt’s omission inexplicable.
Obergurgl is the one I would swap out due to its lopsided west exposure. Everyone else on that list has lots of north exposure except Lech/Zurs. But Lech/Zurs has some east facing that will soften up in spring mornings when Obergurgl remains bulletproof. And of course Lech/Zurs has very high snowfall.
I know my views on Obergurgl are controversial. But Val d’Isere and Zermatt have by far the most ski terrain over 2,500 meters in the Alps and in both cases much of it north facing. So I find Zermatt’s omission inexplicable.
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Weathertoski
Member
It's a reasonable point Tony, it could easily be on the list, but it does have some not insignificant weaknesses which cannot be ignored. These are 1) very erratic snowfall and 2) very rocky terrain by Alpine standards. These two factors combine, for off-piste aficionados at least, to make early booking (or booking early in the season) a bit risky. It is for this reason that March rather than February is often considered high season in Zermatt. On piste is more dependable, very dependable later in the season but for your average piste skier looking to go in December or even January I would favour most of the resorts on that top 10 over Zermatt.
I understand your comments about Saas-Fee but, ignoring it's much smaller size, and limited off-piste (remember most UK readers only ski on-piste), Saas-Fee is definitely a bit more reliable. It holds its snow in and around resort much more easily than Zermatt. It also gets more snowfall at altitude (I don't have figures for this but this is my from my own observation).
As for Obergurgl, there is no more reliable non-glacial area in the Alps. Again, I am not talking about powder, but in terms of the needs of most UK (and for that matter European) skiers it offers incredibly consistent snow conditions.
Weathertoski
Member
Just a quick one while I am on a rare visit to the forum. Zermatt cannot be convincingly placed in either the southern or the northern weather pattern box. It can, contrary to popular belief get a lot from the north-west but normally involving active, complex storms with warm sectors. When it's really cold it tends to miss out.
From the south, again it's not straight forward as it is often on the western edge of southern storms which are funnelled up from the Med roughly between Zermatt and the Italian Lakes.
Either way, snow forecasting is much more complicated here than in, say, the northern French Alps or Vorarlberg. You will often see huge snowfall totals forecast on automated sites such as Snow-Forecast that never materialize because the storm misses by a whisker.
Maybe for this one Top 10 list you should add a #11 with the above disclaimer!
I am well aware of Zermatt's off piste unreliability as that has prevented a return despite our stellar week there in 2014. But for Fraser's on-piste UK audience, Zermatt's superlative altitude and exposure surely makes it a top 10 for reliability.
As for Obergurgl, my view of snow preservation is generally oriented to how good are the snow surfaces in the spring. With the exception of terrain that is high, north facing and steep, some degree of melt/freeze can be expected. That is not bad if you have a variety of exposures to follow the sun during the day to maintain the most pleasant surfaces. But with west facing you have to wait often until 2PM for the frozen surface to loosen, and as noted before Obergurgl is not the only place I've observed this situation. I will say that at Obergurgl's altitude and latitude I would expect predominantly winter packed powder snow through about the end of February. Since that encompasses a solid majority of the ski season for most people (not me, my median ski date is Feb. 26), that is a strong argument for overall reliability.
As for Obergurgl, my view of snow preservation is generally oriented to how good are the snow surfaces in the spring. With the exception of terrain that is high, north facing and steep, some degree of melt/freeze can be expected. That is not bad if you have a variety of exposures to follow the sun during the day to maintain the most pleasant surfaces. But with west facing you have to wait often until 2PM for the frozen surface to loosen, and as noted before Obergurgl is not the only place I've observed this situation. I will say that at Obergurgl's altitude and latitude I would expect predominantly winter packed powder snow through about the end of February. Since that encompasses a solid majority of the ski season for most people (not me, my median ski date is Feb. 26), that is a strong argument for overall reliability.
Thursday 25 January 2024 – Still changeable in the northern Alps
This morning, there is a lot of cloud across the eastern Swiss and Austrian Alps, with showers and snow above about 2000m in Switzerland, and between 1400-1800m in Austria. The southern and western Alps are drier and brighter.
Solid on-piste snow conditions in the southern Austrian Alps. This is Bad Kleinkirchheim
Today’s relatively weak weather front will deliver a few centimetres of snow above 2000m to some northern areas, with as much as 10-15cm at altitude in parts of Austria (e.g. Arlberg).
Friday will start dry and bright for most of the Alps, though further weather fronts will skirt the northern Alps as the day progresses, bringing a few more centimetres of snow here and there(especially in Austria), with a rain/snow limit falling from about 1600-1800m towards 1000-1200m later in the day. The northwestern Alps (e.g. French Savoies) will only see very light and patchy precipitation later in the day, and the southern Alps will again stay mostly dry and bright.
Saturday will see a return to fine weather across all parts of the Alps, with only a little nuisance-value cloud at low altitude. This fine and increasingly warm weather will continue on Sunday and into the first part of next week.
As to snow conditions across the Alps, broadly speaking there is still a lot of snow at altitude in the northern Alps but very meagre snow cover at lower altitudes. Snow depths are generally more modest in the southern Alps, but with more consistent on-piste snow quality thanks to having less volatility in its weather of late.
My dilemma is far too much of a first world problem. Never having skied in Europe anywhere, I am not sure what kind of terrain, I will find myself skiing in Zermatt. Trail map looks mostly like groomers with only a handful of ski routes. I have one day of booked guided freeride, but the other 4 days are likely to be without a guide.
My 74 mm Volkl Deacons (variation from the racetiger) will lay railroad tracks down clear ice. They are fast and make skiing firm groomers a blast. They have this thing called an EVO that reduces vibration, etc. I bought them for groomers in the east. https://www.freeride.com/gear/skis/volkl-deacon-74.html
The 90 mm Skis are Volkl Gottama's. Also good on groomers, however much larger radius, tends to be more of a skidding turn. Good for groomers, but not as much fun as the Deacons. More versitile though and can do bumps, off piste, if not too deep, etcl.
My Rossi Senders will be coming along for my freeride tour +/- the other days. These are predominately an off piste ski that is also fun on piste, but much wider.
Based on some of the others experience on this forum, is skiing slightly off the groomed runs to get some soft snow/powder, bumps, etc realistic or would this send me into the unknown avalanche danger zone?