Gone into Powder Mode- This is gonna be unfrigginreal
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Tony's exhibiting a classic case of ski ethnocentrism -- all skiing should be judged by what he's accustomed to out west. He measures ski areas by volatility and reliability divided by total acreage and vertical as to whether one can confidently book two months in advance and be assured of good conditions.
We here in the east don't delude ourselves that way. It might be great or it might suck beyond belief... we know in advance that it's all a roll of the dice. And if it does suck, most people here deal with it, instead of bitching (we do that too, but without the sense of entitlement).
I remember the first time I saw a Meatheads video, and I was like "THAT'S EC SKIING!" Not so much the powder or terrain they show, but the sense of humor, and the ability to deal with the cards we've been dealt.
Kinda like being a Red Sox fan, I guess (I hate the Red Sox, btw).
:wink:
We here in the east don't delude ourselves that way. It might be great or it might suck beyond belief... we know in advance that it's all a roll of the dice. And if it does suck, most people here deal with it, instead of bitching (we do that too, but without the sense of entitlement).
I remember the first time I saw a Meatheads video, and I was like "THAT'S EC SKIING!" Not so much the powder or terrain they show, but the sense of humor, and the ability to deal with the cards we've been dealt.
Kinda like being a Red Sox fan, I guess (I hate the Red Sox, btw).
:wink:
Not exactly. Eastern skiing is totally dismissed by the real ethnocentrics like Larry Schick and the numerous other western NASJA members who wouldn't consider skiing in the East even when subsidized.
I believe that my experience in Southern California provides good points of reference. Similar issues of snow reliability. Intensively groomed snowmaking areas like Okemo/Big Bear vs. raw natural ski areas like Baldy/MRG. Exactly the same mentality of trying to figure out what's going to happen in a fickle environment and the same sense of accomplishment when you get it right and nail a big powder day.
SoCal, and Baldy in particular is still very western in terms of topography and vegetation. That's why I deferred the tree skiing questions to admin.
You are correct that I do not think it makes much sense to book 2 months ahead (especially if airfare $ are involved) for eastern snow reliability. But for what you're going to have the next few days, any serious skier would be ecstatic.
riverc0il
New member
In the event you have not left yet, you may want to reconsider. Without snow tires, you will be very unlikely to make it to your destination. I do not know what conditions are like on I-91, I89, or the Stowe area, but around here, roads are about as bad as I have ever seen them. The snow plows are trying, but it is a loosing battle right now. My decision to ski Burke today instead of Cannon or Jay was 50% made based on road conditions. Good luck to everyone going for tomorrow. Thursday will probably be one of the best ski days of this decade and I really hope I can get out of work before noon to get back over to Burke.sven":15nzy2y2 said:
But if you don't have snow tires, you may want to consider waiting until Friday. And I do not say that because I am trying to convince any one not to hunt my powder.... considering today was untracked every single damn run from open to close with the storm filling in lines and day long. Boot to knee deep, I just had one of, if not the, best ski days of my life. I have skied slightly deeper powder before, but I have never gotten 7 straight hours of boot to knee deep untracked every single run on phenomenal trails and woods. Self refreshing powder blows my mind. My last run looked just like my first despite skiing one of the most skied trails at the mountain.
Cannon announced tonight that everything is open tomorrow except Tramline, Echo, and Lakeview which are going to be "checked out" tomorrow (have fun patrolers!). I would not be surprised to see everything open at Cannon tomorrow or maybe not Tramline, but perhaps even by Friday at this rate. It is absolutely PUKING out there right now. Apparently, Kinsman will not open this season due to severe blow down from one of the Fall wind storms.
riverc0il
New member
Lack of competition? Knowing lines that will stay fresh all day even on a weekend days after the storm? Enjoying the terrain more?Tony Crocker":2gy151yt said:
You have previously stated you hardly ever disagree with my destination choices since I have moved up to the Northeast Kingdom. You may be disagreeing with some of my choices this weekend; but quite frankly, there is good reasoning behind such decisions. I do not turn my back on the ski area that legitimately claims the most snow in New England lightly and without cause...
But any ways, in my original post when I referred to "two feet of powder on top of no base," that was in reference to my pre-lift serviced skiing and I specifically mentioned that almost every major ski area in New England has some sorta base at this point. I guess I could make comparisons between Jay Peak and Alta since I have read so many reports on FTO, but I will let those with the experience of having skied Alta and the LCC fifty or more times opine about the best time to hit what mountains.
It's becoming clearer that this storm is a conspicuous exception to the Northern Vermont generalization. I often recommend that when conditions are exceptionally good, why not seek out a normally unreliable area instead of the places you usually go, which may also be more crowded as riverc0il implies? I recall recommending Panorama and Kicking Horse in B.C. earlier this season on similar reasoning.
I will probably be soliciting advice here on where to ski when I'm at the NASJA meeting in Bretton Woods late March next year. I haven't heard any of you powder hounds suggest skiing there now :wink:.
I will probably be soliciting advice here on where to ski when I'm at the NASJA meeting in Bretton Woods late March next year. I haven't heard any of you powder hounds suggest skiing there now :wink:.
takeahike46er
New member
Tony Crocker":2a4qsh7y said:
While there might not be a lot of supporters of Bretton Woods here, you certainly would get a variety recommendations that are outside of Northern Vermont and rightly so. There is some fantastic skiing elsewhere despite what statistics say.
EssexCountyBC
New member
I will raise my hand as a Bretton Woods supporter. BW has been my family's favorite resort for the past 15 years or so and we have definitely witnessed a great transformation as they have increased their trail count from 30 to over 100 (including 30+ glades) in the last 10 years. Outside of various favorite non-resort backcountry spots, I split my resort time between BW, Jay, Cannon, and I am a newbi at Burke. So I am quite familiar with BW.
BW surely lacks in steeps and vertical, but there are many positives to the area which I will point out:
1. The glades and "chutes". The BW crew cut their glades on the mountains best fall line. Many of the trees are tight and there are hidden drops. Also, the trail crew has cut many narrow trails (10 to 15 feet wide hidden within the glades.) The glades are rarely skied, so you can find 6 to 10 inches on the sides even a week after the last snow. This leads to my second positive.
2. The average skier at BW is beginner to intermediate. The glades and anything labeled with a black diamond on a sign are rarely skied. (Not that anything at BW outside of the glades is worthy of black diamond status).
3. The lifts. The lifts are all high speed and the only lift that ever has a line on a weekend is the base quad.
4. Weather. Very nice change from the harse weather of Jay and Cannon. This means that the trails are often very nice packed powder. Also makes for comfortable lift rides. Further, Bretton Woods does quite well on upslope event days in the whites(especially with warm air advection) and wrap around events (the tail end of N'easters, such as today). Clearly does not get the snow of N. Vermont, but it evens or edges out Wildcat and Cannon for the most in NH.
BWoods is certainly not the place to be following a 2 to 3 foot dump, but check it out some other time when it is 100% open. Make sure you grab a trail map as many of the glades are hidden.
P.S. They should pay me for this post.
BW surely lacks in steeps and vertical, but there are many positives to the area which I will point out:
1. The glades and "chutes". The BW crew cut their glades on the mountains best fall line. Many of the trees are tight and there are hidden drops. Also, the trail crew has cut many narrow trails (10 to 15 feet wide hidden within the glades.) The glades are rarely skied, so you can find 6 to 10 inches on the sides even a week after the last snow. This leads to my second positive.
2. The average skier at BW is beginner to intermediate. The glades and anything labeled with a black diamond on a sign are rarely skied. (Not that anything at BW outside of the glades is worthy of black diamond status).
3. The lifts. The lifts are all high speed and the only lift that ever has a line on a weekend is the base quad.
4. Weather. Very nice change from the harse weather of Jay and Cannon. This means that the trails are often very nice packed powder. Also makes for comfortable lift rides. Further, Bretton Woods does quite well on upslope event days in the whites(especially with warm air advection) and wrap around events (the tail end of N'easters, such as today). Clearly does not get the snow of N. Vermont, but it evens or edges out Wildcat and Cannon for the most in NH.
BWoods is certainly not the place to be following a 2 to 3 foot dump, but check it out some other time when it is 100% open. Make sure you grab a trail map as many of the glades are hidden.
P.S. They should pay me for this post.
sven
New member
riverc0il":1zuj6uaj said:
Well im leaving now (midnight) so most of the storm has passed by at this point.... but earlier yeah I'm sure it was impossible. I'm going to make it at any cost - anyone at stowe, ill be in a dark blue jacket, light gray pants and mantras. Hope to see anyone who's up there!
Sven
Patrick
Well-known member
Tony Crocker":ksnpi3ig said:
Tony, you underestimate our determination. You know that some of us folks that write on FTO aren't you average skier.
Let's see, a quick roll call on who was out on Thursday in the heart of the storm?
Joe at Bretton Woods VT
Hamdog, Patrick and Lucky Luke at Smuggs VT
Powderfreak at Stowe VT
Bendude (from Montreal and ZS) at Sugarloaf ME
James Deluxe at Belleayre NY
Riverc0il at Burke VT
Pete C at Sunapee NH
At least 9 of us when out on Thursday and a few of us were probably out on Wednesday and/or Friday also.
Geez, you go skiing for a few days, and there's a ton of new posts to read once you get back to your computer.
:lol:
Patrick
Well-known member
Yes River, the heart of the storm was probably more late Wednesday, however I think the biggest total new snow was on Thursday morning.riverc0il":14lukkta said:
Lucky and myself were skiing on Wednesday. I mentioned my race near Ottawa (although it wasn't too close to the epicentre of the storm). I cannot say that this was my best of the 3 days.
Lucky Luke was out at Bromont evening with his kids and had considerated more snow. There was so much snow that he couldn't make it back to his home on the other side of the hill. He mentioned that "snow wise", that was the best conditions of our 3 days (correct me if I'm wrong Luc).
I believe that Hamdog also mentioned that the conditions were really sweet on that Wednesday.
I can't say my opinion has changed much. The early birds (mostly locals) who got out Wednesday clearly had the best of it.
With so many eastern areas getting the big dump, I see a few good reports later from those areas which were more sheltered from the wind. In a widepread storm it's definitely a plus to have so many areas to choose from. Some of them (like Powder Mt. in Utah) will be under the radar and the powder will last longer.
With so many eastern areas getting the big dump, I see a few good reports later from those areas which were more sheltered from the wind. In a widepread storm it's definitely a plus to have so many areas to choose from. Some of them (like Powder Mt. in Utah) will be under the radar and the powder will last longer.
riverc0il
New member
regardless of snow totals, wednesday was the day to beat since it snowed all day and refilled lines. since it was a dense snow, anything more than two feet didn't really count for anything except adding to the base depth, so i still count wednesday as "the day" last week.Patrick":2ekge1jr said: