Harv's NY/VT Pictures Thread

[Tony Crocker]

Are you planning to repost it [the .kml file] or did you already and I wasn't aware?

During the conversion of FTO, the download section got broken. I've asked Xenforo Marc about that. He said it's not easy to restore in the same way. I have not followed up on that. I think the workaround is to load an attachment into a Forum post, then put a link to that post into the Download section.

The former admin built up the non-Forum parts of FTO gradually over many years, including lots of WordPress plug-ins. It's not a good use of Xenforo Marc's time to decipher this stuff.

 

[Harvey]

For my money McCauley isn't a ski trip until you stay in the town of Old Forge and listen to the hundreds and hundreds of sled-heads partying and doing obnoxiously endless circles out back of the motel until 2am.

We all enjoy things in our own way I guess. I dig it the way I did it.

Snow ridge is very aptly named though... It really is too bad there are no really decent sized hills in that part of NY (eg nearing 1K vert). I do have to say, never thought there would be a detailed discussion of tiny NY places like this on FTO! You can certainly add some more very similar places in NY: in the right snow location, but not very usable hills. Kissing Bridge for a near identical example to Snow Ridge but over S of Buffalo.

I've said this many times. If New York was Vermont, it would be Vermont, not New York. The primary difference between the two states, for skiers, is that in Vermont the snow falls in the mountains. In NY it falls in the lee of the lakes.

Usability is also personal. I find NY skiing fascinating. That day at Mccauley was my best day this season, so far, and I skied Gore (2500 vert) in the middle of, and right after 24 inch storm. That 500 foot black trail (DeCamp) at Mac that I lapped several times, was steep, covered in nice bumps, and certainly enough for me T2B, as a 64 yo teleskier. Ultimately I'd rather ski 500 feet of soft snow vs 1500 feet of hardpack. It's a personal choice.

I also find that the dynamic of skiing changes, when you aren't surrounded by a crowd. One thing I've learned is that if you don't like the exact same thing as everyone else, you don't wait in line as much.

As far as why this thread is here, it's because James asked me to post it. I am certainly enjoying it, but I wouldn't have thought anyone here would care.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

This is the type of area Harvey would love if he would ever travel West. James would tell Harvey to travel East, as you can get this low key ambience at Vail sized areas in the Alps.

I'm reasonably sure that I've pointed this out before but to repeat -- Harv skiing out west or in the Alps is somewhere between improbable and implausible. On a few occasions, he's crossed the state line into Vermont and ten years ago into New Hampshire. No snarkiness intended, he's the Grand Poobah of New York skiing and that's what he loves. Why the state's tourism agency or Olympic Regional Development Authority hasn't leveraged his knowledge and passion in some official capacity is beyond me.

Once retired, Harv's potential ski possibilities outside the state are, in order of likelihood:
a) Mount Bohemia, Michigan
b) Eastern Townships, Quebec

 

[Harvey]

Lots of truth in both of those posts.

Once retired, Harv's most likely ski possibilities outside the state are, in order of likelihood:
a) Mount Bohemia, Michigan
b) Eastern Townships, Quebec

I would add Vermont to this. I love Jay, not just the snow, but also the culture Steve Wright has created. I hope it (the culture) survives. I love Smuggs and Sugarbush and Killington and Magic. I want to learn the trees at Killington. I want to check out Middlebury and Bromley.

Mount Bohemia is a dream. I want to buy a pickup, set it up to sleep, somehow warm, and drive out there for a week or 10 days, when it's really in. No one else would do this because Alta is like a full day closer. I hope Bohemia happens, but it's certainly not a sure thing.

Eastern Townships are also dreamy. If we go to Montreal, and ski Tremblant, and also ski all of James' places in the Eastern Townships, it would make my wife so happy. Me too. I want to ski into those woods and run into the guy with the ? question mark on his back.

Not out of state, but I want to use that pickup to ski Central and Western NY too. I'm going to Peek'n Peak, and Cockaigne and Buffalo Ski Club when they are in. I bet my wife would love Holiday Valley too. I hope to get to Caz before I retire.

I would ski out west under certain circumstances. Some kind of invite to be "guided" at a place like Pow Mow or maybe Wolf Creek. If Ripitz would show me around I might consider Big Sky. Alps only if Italian family was going, which is doubtful.

 

[Harvey]

Olympic Regional Development Authority

Things are a bit different at Gore now. There is a new marketing person, her name is Julia.

First, Gore followed NYSB on Insta and Twitter. Then they shared, actually shared some of our content, directly on their Facebook page:

Gore Mountain December Thump

The mountain is even bigger when you add a foot or two of snow.

nyskiblog.com

This is the first time this has ever happened, since I started writing about Gore in 2008.

I thanked Julia, and her response was "it was so well written, and all about Gore, so of course I shared it."

 

[jamesdeluxe]

This is the first time this has ever happened, since I started writing about Gore in 2008.

Having navigated/battled bureaucracies in the U.S., France, and francophone Africa, I know that there is always a (sometimes perverse) logic to why governments and their employees do what they do, but of the three NYS ski areas, Gore's decisions over the years are especially challenging to understand. There are hundreds of pages on your forum dedicated to this so no need to go into it here. In any case, congratulations on the social-media accomplishments.

 

[EMSC]

We all enjoy things in our own way I guess. I dig it the way I did it.

I think my point was that there are relatively few day trip people for a place as remote as McCauley. Which means likely staying in Old Forge, which means you better be into Sled-head culture. I am not really, but the town is near mecca to snowmobilers with snowcats grooming out in the woods on the main sled trails and other stuff you just don't really see except a tiny handful of spots in the world. Far, far more sleds pulled up at the gas station than cars for another example. Unfortunately that also means the aforementioned culture of parting till 2am, driving in circles (mostly their kids) loudly till 2am, etc...

It's a unique spot that I've been to a number of times. My favorite run being the trail they use for races of course. I think that is Skyride? It's through the biggest boulder field lookers left of the chair with a sharp 90 degree left turn around a huge boulder about 1/3 of the way down.

If any state has an unbelievable number of unique and weird spots to ski it is NY. Somehow, despite all my racing, I still only managed to hit around 30 of the 60+ in NY. Wish you luck on getting to them all.

 

[Harvey]

Skyride?

Yes it's Skyride. They blow it very deep...

I probably wouldn't stay in Old Forge overnight, since our place is only about 90 minutes away. But if I did I think I would stay here:

Great Pines - Adirondack Resort & Hotel in Old Forge, NY

Escape to Great Pines, a luxury Adirondack resort offering year-round adventure and relaxation. Enjoy our stunning accommodations, breathtaking views of Fourth Lake, and a variety of outdoor activities, from hiking to kayaking. Unwind and gather with friends at our restaurant and bar. Book your...

greatpines.com

They were very nice, I had a drink there after another great day at McCauley in 2020:

McCauley: The Answer

Great snow, within range.

nyskiblog.com

 

[Tony Crocker]

Some kind of invite to be "guided" at a place like Pow Mow or maybe Wolf Creek.

You would have little trouble finding local guidance at numerous areas you would appreciate. It's fairly obvious in the case of Powder Mt. or probably anywhere in Utah. There 's q at Discovery in March, snowave at Brundage/Tamarack. I could guide quite a few myself; my top recommendation would be Castle Mt. in Alberta.

 

[Harvey]

This is one of the most insane and cool things I've ever been (loosely) associated with:

I always ski Plattekill on my birthday (last Sunday) and this year I asked one of our newest writers, Rip, to join me. We'd never met IRL and he's put up some incredibly adventurous content. He's originally an NY'er but has spent time ski bumming at Chamonix and Big Sky.

Anyway he said Plattekill was too far, but he could meet me at Belle. WTF? Platty is like 20 mins past Belle. I didn't get it, but I agreed to start the day at Belle skiing from first chair until noon or whatever.

It turns out Plattekill was "too far" because he was riding his electric bike from his house in the Hudson Valley, 180 miles round trip. It's an epic tale, long but really something.

Here's his rig:

Conditions were pretty damn good at Belle, especially under the guns, when you consider the recent weather, and how far south they are...

Story here:

Belleayre, NY: Jan 7-8 2023 E-Bike Ski Trip

I have been meaning to pull off this trip for quite some time. I have a Bulls electric gravel touring bike that I use daily instead of a car. I usually commute 20 miles a day but sometimes it is 40. I ride year round so I am used to being out in the elements. I have been wanting to ride the...

nyskiblog.com

 

[jimk]

@Harvey , Thanks for sharing that e-bike story. Amazing. Dude is hardcore!

Reminds me of a friend I used to ski with five or ten years ago, known as TeleRod. He was a bike courier in downtown Wash DC and a fine telemark skier. He'd been a ski instructor earlier in life and was very down to earth and unassuming. He didn't own a car and I'd occasionally pick him up when we'd make a two or three hour drive to do a ski day or ski weekend together. Once in April 2014 we went for a day of skiing at Wintergreen, VA. I needed him to meet me at my house for the drive south to Wintergreen where we were going to meet some more friends for the day. TeleRod was probably about age 55 at the time. He got up super early and rode his bike (not e-bike) with a trailer with all his ski gear to my house. It was about a 20 mile ride. Then we drove three hours to Wintergreen and skied all day.

TeleRod at Wintergreen, April 2014:

It was one of the best (and very few) ski days I've had in VA in the month of April. We met some friends and even did a mid-day cookout with a gas grill. At the end of the day me and Rod drove three hours back to my house. I did all the driving and Rod catnapped a bit on the way back. When we got to my house in northern VA it was dark and Rod started packing his trailer to set off for the 20 mile ride to his apartment across town. I asked him, are you sure you don't need a ride home in my van? He turned down my offer and said something I'll never forget. "I'll be ok, this is just how I roll." That day he did something like three hours on a bike, six hours in a car, and eight hours on the ski slopes.

A photo of TeleRod with his rig doing his courier job:

 

[Harvey]

One thing that is so cool about skiing, when the snow is melting, the skiing is excellent.

Think of how much shorter the eastern season would be if you couldn't ski melting snow, or if it wasn't great.

 

[Tony Crocker]

One thing that is so cool about skiing, when the snow is melting, the skiing is excellent.

Yes, that's May and June at Mammoth, surely July too this season. Surely Harvey knew I'd take THAT bait. March and first half of April are still winter as far as I'm concerned.

Stories like your biker friend demonstrate conditioning that I have never approached.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

I asked him, are you sure you don't need a ride home in my van? He turned down my offer and said something I'll never forget. "I'll be ok, this is just how I roll." That day he did something like three hours on a bike, six hours in a car, and eight hours on the ski slopes.

Yes, that's May and June at Mammoth, surely July too this season. Surely @Harvey knew I'd take THAT bait. March and first half of April are still winter as far as I'm concerned.

Ah yes, one of Tony's greatest hits.

 

[Harvey]

Plattekill was far better than it should have been yesterday. Only 4 ways down, but T2B guns on the expert terrain — both Face and Northface — and everyone was smiling.

I skied with Dean, a noted character at Plattekill, triple pass holder at Mad, Platty and Bromley.

Dean

When you weren't under the guns it was actually a blue sky day...

Plattekill has the whole skier density thing figured out....

Full lift, empty trails

Really fun day. So great to see Laz making bank on a holiday, in a so far tough season. More here:

https://nyskiblog.com/forum/threads/plattekill-ny-jan-15-2023-laz-makes-his-own-weather.1486/

 

[jamesdeluxe]

great to see Laz making bank on a holiday, in a so far tough season.

Jason and I were wondering offline -- on a day like that, are any day passes sold?

 

[Harvey]

Jason and I were wondering offline -- on a day like that, are any day passes sold?

Hard to say for sure but my guess is yes. I think they were $85 yesterday.

There were so many beginners. The magic carpet and the green terrain were jamming.

I helped Candace (instructor) by riding up the chair with two little kids. They were from Brooklyn, family had passes to Stowe, it was only their second time at Plattekill. So I'm guessing that was four day tickets right there.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

I think they were $85 yesterday.

The only time I've paid something like that to ski Platte during similar conditions (three-ish ways down) was on one of your birthdays. It was great to meet people from the forum and I tried not to think about the low skiing ROI.

 

[Tony Crocker]

in a so far tough season.

Very tough. The 11 major Northeast areas I track average 48% open now. That's the second worst since I started tracking in 2003-04. Interestingly, the only lower season was 2006-07, which turned around in a big way with an excellent February-April.

skier density

I've used those stats too, though differently, and in conjunction with estimated total skier visits.
Acreage / estimated skier visits is my measure for minimizing skier density
Vertical transport feet / estimated skier visits is my measure for minimizing lift lines.

Skier visit data is fuzzy and I put in a fair amount of effort to get that back in 2015. More and more areas are refusing to publish that info, so the quality of that data is degrading.

My skier density measure reflects an overall ski season, while Harvey's is better for the worst case scenario, like a weekend powder day.

It was very easy to go into that 2015 spreadsheet and try out Harvey's formula on the 89 areas I was analyzing then. No surprise it didn't match up too well.
1) My numbers are 7 years old, and I while was crunching those VTF numbers I made the error of not saving the details.
2) I adjust some of the acreage numbers where I believe that stat significantly over or underestimates usable ski terrain.

Most eastern areas worthy of my attention (18 out of the 89) have some tree skiing and get an upward acreage adjustment. Stowe is an extreme example. Its skier density number by my spreadsheet is 46.5 (Harvey has 41) using published 485 acres but is only 14.9 using a more realistic 1,500 acres. The latter number was informed by an online debate with JSpin, who argued for 2,500 acres.

So in another attempt to lure Harvey west, here's the Top Ten List by HIS skier density measure:
1) Powder Mt. 2.9
2) Castle Mt. 3.1
3) Kicking Horse 3.2
4) Mad River 4.2 (I use 700 acres)
5) Sunlight 4.7
6) Panorama 4.9
7) Grand Targhee 5.0
8) Alta 5.0
9) Wolf Creek 5.1
10) Whitewater 5.2

Jay at 10.0 (assuming 1,200 acres) is the next best eastern area at #43. Eastern areas comprise 12 of the highest 13 skier densities by Harvey's stat with acreage adjustments.

 

[Harvey]

Acreage / estimated skier visits is my measure for minimizing skier density

I like it.

How do you find out visit numbers? I'm tight as I can be with the Plattekill owner and he won't tell me, even after two beers.

I knew that places out west had lower numbers. I expected it in advance too.

Could you imagine if ANY western place was as crowded as ... I don't know... Mt Snow on Presidents Day?

What are the most dense in the east by your numbers?