A NYT article reports on life for many ski-industry employees in Frisco, CO.
Homeless/Unhoused Workers in Ski Towns
- Thread starter jamesdeluxe
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Can anyone clarify the subsidy part of the equation?
"Mr. Aerenson, a retired lawyer and a ski instructor at Breckenridge, estimates that it costs the town $150,000 in subsidies to build a single unit of affordable housing, a process that takes years even when the funds are available."
This appears to be the case across the entire western world unfortunately.
EMSC
Well-known member
I don't know Frisco specifically (haven't read the article yet), but generally two ways that 'affordable housing' gets built in CO in general. Either a local tax added on the normal RE tax locally (has to be voted on in CO; local Gov't can't just add it), or local laws that require either % of new build condo's/Apts be sold/rented as 'affordable', or a payment to the town (eg tax) in lieu of doing so. So many towns end up as the builder/owner of new 'affordable' condos and Apts for low wage residents (deed or rent restricted to go to people at or below certain % of median local income).
I use quotes around the word 'Affordable' above because the units are anything but affordable to build. They might be cheaper than luxury housing, but also far from the definition of 'affordable'. Sounds like dense unit condos (I'm assuming without reading article), implies $150K+ in subsidies per unit to build in Frisco (eg loss per unit when they actually sell to locals).
ChrisC
Well-known member
It's a slightly depressing story.
Telluride's SMCHA (San Miguel Country Housing Authority) is semi-successful in providing decent options for long-term residents, but seasonal employees are generally hurt.
smrha.org
Some friends have homes or condos (deed-restricted housing) within the town limits of Telluride: there are many small homes on the East side of town in this program, and a large set of condos at the base of Chair 7/Coonskin. One friend even has a home overlooking Tom Cruise's compound, the airport, Mt. Wilson, and plateaus.
I recently co-invested in a warehouse/short-term housing project between Telluride Town and Mountain Village. We have a 3 year lease for workers building the Four Seasons Telluride. My brother needs it too for his business. And there is not enough warehouse space in Telluride for anyone.
I am waiting for the future "White Lotus: Season 5 or 6" to be filmed there, titled 'San Juans' or 'Telluride'. However, Mike White supposedly hates cold and snow, so that possibility might be remote.
But almost every West Coast city lacks enough land to build affordable housing.
Telluride's SMCHA (San Miguel Country Housing Authority) is semi-successful in providing decent options for long-term residents, but seasonal employees are generally hurt.
San Miguel Regional Housing Authority, Telluride, San Miguel County
Telluride Housing Program Read More San Miguel Regional Housing Authority San Miguel County Deed Restricted Housing Programs Telluride San Miguel County Town of Mountain Village See Mountain Village Housing Authority link above or email housing@mtnvillage.org for questions about deed restricted...
smrha.org
Some friends have homes or condos (deed-restricted housing) within the town limits of Telluride: there are many small homes on the East side of town in this program, and a large set of condos at the base of Chair 7/Coonskin. One friend even has a home overlooking Tom Cruise's compound, the airport, Mt. Wilson, and plateaus.
I recently co-invested in a warehouse/short-term housing project between Telluride Town and Mountain Village. We have a 3 year lease for workers building the Four Seasons Telluride. My brother needs it too for his business. And there is not enough warehouse space in Telluride for anyone.
I am waiting for the future "White Lotus: Season 5 or 6" to be filmed there, titled 'San Juans' or 'Telluride'. However, Mike White supposedly hates cold and snow, so that possibility might be remote.
But almost every West Coast city lacks enough land to build affordable housing.
I heard a rumor that originally Season 3 was going to be in a ski resort. FYI Mike White as a former graduate was the commencement speaker for my son Adam's Polytechnic School graduation in 2003.
A 30-second search turned up this article.
Makes skiing in upstate NY look almost sustainable by comparison.
While certainly apples and oranges compared to Colorado, it's fascinating that NYS's biggest ski town is tiny, idyllic Lake Placid.
Is LP the biggest? Population 3000 I think. Syracuse is as close to Song as Lake Placid is to Whiteface. (Mt Pisgah is closer to LP.)
I'm thinking more about family run places. At Titus, the Monettes have a business model that includes several businesses that run year round and they provide full time employment (365) to a significant amount of their workforce. And reasonable costs for real estate nearby.
I'm thinking more about family run places. At Titus, the Monettes have a business model that includes several businesses that run year round and they provide full time employment (365) to a significant amount of their workforce. And reasonable costs for real estate nearby.
I was comparing Lake Placid to Frisco (mountain tourism towns), not a city that happens to have a few lift-served hills 25 minutes away.
Which is really the problem, as eric points out.
What else qualifies as a "ski town" in NY?
To my mind, only Ellicottville in western NY. Hunter, Roxbury, Windham, and Pine Hill in the Catskills are near ski areas but don't have enough tourism infrastructure to qualify as true ski towns IMO. I believe that the same could be said about North Creek in the ADKs.
Back to the topic: ski towns with a sizable number of workers who live out of their cars. As far as I know, NY State doesn't have that situation but you'd be more aware of that than me.
So LP is the biggest of two.
Right. New York doesn't have that in part because towns aren't exclusively resorts, you can afford real estate. Also, obviously as eric said, the topography out west, which makes for better skiing, limits the land to build on:
Right. New York doesn't have that in part because towns aren't exclusively resorts, you can afford real estate. Also, obviously as eric said, the topography out west, which makes for better skiing, limits the land to build on:
Whether cities or ski resorts, homelessness is highly driven by the overall cost of housing. Tell me what a typical one or two bedroom apartment costs to rent for a month in upstate NY vs. Frisco, Jackson WY, Mammoth, LA or NYC and it will probably be glaringly evident why employees don't have to live out of their cars in upstate NY.
In the case of Mammoth, I think Bishop 45 miles away is still relatively reasonably priced. The Idaho side of the Tetons has served a similar role for Jackson, but that area is getting pricier. I think Colorado ski country may be the worst, because places like Frisco used to be the cheap places. Considering what hotel prices are in places like that (Eagle and Basalt/Carbondale also), I'm guessing that pricing pressure applies at least as much to monthly rentals.
In the case of Mammoth, I think Bishop 45 miles away is still relatively reasonably priced. The Idaho side of the Tetons has served a similar role for Jackson, but that area is getting pricier. I think Colorado ski country may be the worst, because places like Frisco used to be the cheap places. Considering what hotel prices are in places like that (Eagle and Basalt/Carbondale also), I'm guessing that pricing pressure applies at least as much to monthly rentals.
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tseeb
Well-known member
Vacancy tax in South Lake Tahoe failed with nearly 74% voting No last November. https://www.tahoedailytribune.com/news/measure-n-fails-to-pass-nearly-74-vote-no/
The Lease to Locals Incentive Grant Program in South Lake Tahoe offers cash incentives to property owners who convert their underutilized housing units to 6-months or 12-month rentals for qualified households. https://www.cityofslt.us/2330/Lease-to-Locals-Grant-Program
City and Heavenly have been battling for a couple of years as City wants the part of sales tax from Heavenly which currently goes to County and would go to City if annexed. Hard to tell who is less deserving of our support, but I have seen my preferred route to their CA base blocked well after storms which would force me into much busier route. https://www.sfgate.com/renotahoe/ar...own-playing-hardball-vail-empire-20267008.php
The Lease to Locals Incentive Grant Program in South Lake Tahoe offers cash incentives to property owners who convert their underutilized housing units to 6-months or 12-month rentals for qualified households. https://www.cityofslt.us/2330/Lease-to-Locals-Grant-Program
City and Heavenly have been battling for a couple of years as City wants the part of sales tax from Heavenly which currently goes to County and would go to City if annexed. Hard to tell who is less deserving of our support, but I have seen my preferred route to their CA base blocked well after storms which would force me into much busier route. https://www.sfgate.com/renotahoe/ar...own-playing-hardball-vail-empire-20267008.php
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This is pretty much what eric said.
A fascinating article, especially this:
Heavenly VP and general manager Shaydar Edelmann declined to be interviewed for this story; he instead shared a statement with SFGATE saying the ski resort cares “deeply” for the South Lake Tahoe community but does not see any reason to join the city.