How Good/Great is Silverton?

[Tony Crocker]

Tony-I rank Silverton above snowbird also.

Silverton should properly be compared to snowcat skiing:
1) A limited number of reservations required most of the season.
2) Guides required most of the season.
3) Avy gear required
4) Cost
5) Limited vertical but usually high quality vs. conventional lift service

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....

I also suspect that with its terrain and snowpack Silverton would not hold up well as a conventional lift-served area.

I advocate diversity vs. homogeneity among ski area experiences.

Silverton is perhaps Exhibit A of such diversity and I wish them all the best. Except for their exaggerated snow reporting.

 

[TRam]

Tony- I remember your argument against Silverton snow numbers, and from my 2 visits there is nothing to indicate they are lying. They get a lot of snow there. Anyway there are much bigger fish to fry in that regard ie Jackson, Big sky countless others posting drifted/windloaded summit measurements.
As for your comments about the resort they are all true, ecept2 #1 tell me where there is snowcat skiing comparable to silverton? No way with that pitch. #2 I think 2400 vert (according to my GPS on aveage run (some hike) is just fine by most. Find fall line sking like that at your favorite resort. I like propably %70 of others on this board would rather have the silverton experience, don't mind beacons, guides etc. you still have avy control and a bit more security then backcountry. Imagine having snowbird limited to 200 skiers (since it is bigger at 2500ac vs 1800ac at silverton). If you go wait till it is guide only, pay the 120 bucks (only 30 more then the bird) and you won't be sorry. If they ever could get a second life to reach the "bill board" it would have the best lift severed terrian in NA hands down. Mind you I spend most of my skiing time in SLC (LCC BCC and basin), and love it.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Based upon Knox Williams, whose job for the state of Colorado was to monitor snow and avalanche conditions for over 30 years, there is nothing unique about Silverton's microclimate that would boost its snowfall way above nearly locations, as at Wolf Creek or Buffalo Pass. So November-April average snowfall is at best about 325 inches vs. the verified 297 at Red Mt. Pass.

the 120 bucks (only 30 more then the bird)

?????

All Day Tram & Chairs – $72
All Day Chairs Only – $62
Multi Day (3 out of 4 day Tram & Chairs) – $62/day
Multi Day (4 out of 5 day Tram & Chairs) – $62/day
Multi Day (5 or more day Tram & Chairs) – $56/day
Alta/Snowbird Combined All-Day – $85

If they ever could get a second lift to reach the "bill board"

Probably a pipe dream like Shames backcountry.

Typical day at Silverton is probably 5 runs, maybe 2 of them with a hike. That's 10K vertical max.

Find fall line skiing like that at your favorite resort.

Not that many, but Jackson, Squaw, Snowbird stack up pretty well. And you can get 25K/day easily at those places.

tell me where there is snowcat skiing comparable to silverton? No way with that pitch.

Generally true, but a lot of the places in Canada get 400+ inches and/or have much more acreage per skier, so the probability of powder is much higher. To me the powder is the more scarce commodity than the terrain. So that's what I'm more willing to pay the higher price and reduced vertical for.

Skiing is a multidimensional sport. Silverton has a nearly unique combination of attributes. So it depends upon one's priorities how attractive it is. For the typical vacationing skier from the flatlands, nearly a week of altitude acclimitization might be necessary if you want to keep up with the stronger groups on the hikes. Then you factor in that a far advance booked date will have ~12% chance of 6+ inches new snow, based on Red Mt. pass stats. Since the snow won't get tracked out in one day, you can probably bump that up to 40-50%, still short of the 75% or so from my Canadian experience.

If I lived in Colorado, the acclimitization would be a non-issue, plus within drive distance you could try to get in with a week's notice. So I suspect I would be a recurring visitor to Silverton if I lived within weekend drive distance.

 

[TRam]

Tony- Remember they are only open thur thru sun, sometimes even less. This means if you ski a thur the resort has had no tracks since sun afternoon, chances are good you find powder. I remember the bit about Red Mountian pass, they are not the same place, look at Snowbasin and Powder mtn, signifacnt difference in snow from one range to the next(`100inch)
On another note they moved ther opening up to 12-2 and there site says they will be opening during the week unguided until Purgatory goes full time, giving the durango crowd a chance to ski during the week. Nice move I think.

 

[Admin]

On another note they moved ther opening up to 12-2 and there site says they will be opening during the week unguided until Purgatory goes full time, giving the durango crowd a chance to ski during the week. Nice move I think.

Making lemonade out of DMR's lemons. I can't believe the PR fiasco that DMR created. Details:
http://www.firsttracksonline.com/News/2 ... Purgatory/

 

[Tony Crocker]

look at Snowbasin and Powder Mt, significant difference in snow from one range to the next(`100inch)

Bad example. Powder Mt.'s snowfall the past 3 seasons has exceeded Snowbasin's by only 12%. The real snowfall average for Powder Mt. is probably around 375 inches. This doesn't surprise me. The topography of those areas doesn't suggest Powder Mt. getting massively more snow. Huge snowfall differences within a short distance usually relate to areas near the crest of a range vs. those on the leeward side, the Cottonwood Canyons vs. Park City group being Exhibit A.

Given a choice between ski area marketing and an independent professional avalanche forecaster of 30 years, I know whose opinion about snowfall microclimates I would give more credibility.

As discussed in the Shames thread, 400+ inch microclimates are quite rare, especially away from the coastal areas. Usually there's a logical explanation for them.

In terms of the way they actually operate the skiing at Silverton, I think they're doing a pretty good job. The San Juans have about as dangerous a snowpack as you can get, and so far Silverton has been managing it well.

 

[EMSC]

So November-April average snowfall is at best about 325 inches vs. the verified 297 at Red Mt. Pass.

I only have 2 days at Silverton - in 2005, a big snow year. Not sure if you have the data readily available, but I skied in ~2 feet of fresh March 31 and April 1(just new runs on the 2nd day, not new overnight snowfall). I suspect if the data were available for what Silverton reports and direct reports of skiers, you could at least confirm or deny anecdotally if they are dramatically over reporting... Just a thought.

Typical day at Silverton is probably 5 runs, maybe 2 of them with a hike.

Pretty much exactly right. Some lower end groups only get 4 runs. Although I found the 'guiding' annoying personally. Way too much waiting around, and sectioning that was much too short IMO (Fine to have the guide and avy rules and all, but could be implemented much better logistically, again IMO)

If I lived in Colorado, the acclimitization would be a non-issue, plus within drive distance you could try to get in with a week's notice. So I suspect I would be a recurring visitor to Silverton if I lived within weekend drive distance.

). Which wouldn't be living anywhere on the front range of Colo where the jobs are. Or for that mater most of the state. Silverton is just a hard place to get to.

Given a choice between ski area marketing and an independent professional avalanche forecaster of 30 years, I know whose opinion about snowfall microclimates I would give more credibility.

As discussed in the Shames thread, 400+ inch microclimates are quite rare, especially away from the coastal areas. Usually there's a logical explanation for them.

Agreed, and yet standing at the top of Silverton, I could see a storm potentially hanging at least a little extra snow up in that canyon/area. Thus it'd be interesting to see if anecdote does agree with reported #'s and maybe start the case for underpinning if it is somehow a micro-climate...

 

[icelanticskier]

Although I found the 'guiding' annoying personally. Way too much waiting around, and sectioning that was much too short IMO (Fine to have the guide and avy rules and all, but could be implemented much better logistically, again IMO)

i found the same to be true while on a guided week long yurt trip in the kooteneys in 2004 or 2005. there were 7 in our group, well a group of 3 of us and another group of 4 from the daks. all great folks including the guide, but absolutely zero "know" in the pow preservation and etiquette. the guide made turns that were way too big and the others just skied in each others tracks or were erratic at best. by the 2nd day of 7 the guide and i had an understanding, either i got to go 1st b4 the others or last. i preferred last so that i could ski free and clear of the others scribbles and have them not molest my artwork. sometimes i'd just watch where the others including the guide skied, signal down from another spot and have my way with it. nice little mountains them koots are.

rog

 

[Tony Crocker]

Some lower end groups only get 4 runs.

That was us. They moved Adam out to another group in the middle of the second run.

Way too much waiting around, and sectioning that was much too short IMO

We had that, but since the other people in my group were less familiar with the snow and terrain than I, I attributed it to accomodating them.

absolutely zero "know" in the pow preservation and etiquette. the guide made turns that were way too big and the others just skied in each others tracks or were erratic at best.

Always a potential problem with cat or heli. Heli it can help to be in A-Stars, small groups of 4 + guide can usually be quite compatible. Snowcat, particularly if only one cat, you need to do your homework and find a place that attracts people with similar profiles as you. Silverton groups are small: they should be able to do it right but this is not the first time I've heard of issues.

The anecdotal comments about snow overreporting are not from me; I've read them from time to time. Silverton reported 409 inches the year I was there in 2004 vs. 372 at Red Mt. Pass. The next year was when I got suspicious: Red Mt. Pass had 364 and Silverton reported well over 500. I'm guessing they wanted to "keep up" with Wolf Creek, which had 392 in 2003-04 and 536 in 2004-05. But 2004-05 had a bunch of storm tracks through SoCal and Arizona and most of those get funneled into Wolf Creek. Silverton is maybe 10 miles as the crow files from Red Mt. Pass and a whole lot farther from Wolf Creek, which has a well known microclimate distinct from mountains even a few miles away.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Making lemonade out of DMR's lemons. I can't believe the PR fiasco that DMR created. Details:
http://www.firsttracksonline.com/News/2 ... Purgatory/

I forget... who owns DMR? Hard to believe that a CEO would write such a butthurt letter to a passholder. Never been there, but the fact that they changed the resort's name from the much cooler "Purgatory" (because some baptists from Texas complained?) was already a sign of inept leadership.

 

[Skrad]

Been to Silverton several times. 4-6 runs is the norm. Unfortunately, 1-2 of those runs are through the front side forest. The forest has lots of downed timber that can make for treacherous turning, particularly with low snow.

Doug

 

[Patrick]

Probably a pipe dream like Shames backcountry.

There are many pipe dreams in BC, some more than others. Easy lift access to Shames backcountry isn't that far of a reach.

As discussed in the Shames thread, 400+ inch microclimates are quite rare, especially away from the coastal areas. Usually there's a logical explanation for them.

Missed that part. Shames is part of the coastal range. Access to the Ocean by the wide open beautiful Skeena Valley. Stewart and Kitimat gets ton of snow and are pretty close to sea level.

However I trust Tony on snow numbers, especially when you're considering his source.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Missed that part. Shames is part of the coastal range. Access to the Ocean by the wide open beautiful Skeena Valley. Stewart and Kitimat gets ton of snow and are pretty close to sea level.

I said that Shames' claim of 480 was probably reasonable. It was soulskier's claim of "2x Whistler" that I don't believe. Again, regional context. If someone claims 50% more than other nearby locations I want to see documentation and a logical explanation.

 

[TRam]

Tony- I have sent an email to silverton asking how they can explain the extra 100 inchs of snow they get, over that of red mountiain pass. I will await there response. I still no little of where knox williams gets his info from( elevation, east west facing slope etc). Another good example would be winter park and Berthoud pass.
Any way I really am no that hung up on snow totals being only a part of a mountian experience. Silverton has the goods, anyone heading there should just man up and get with a "fast" group if you want more runs, we got 5 one day last year with an average group and 7 with a fast group. They level of skiing was the same, just the fast group pushed it more ie less waiting. My legs where shot for three days after that.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Winter Park and Berthoud pass.

362 vs. 321 http://webpages.charter.net/tcrocker818/
Same ~10% difference I'm estimating for Silverton vs. Red Mt. Pass

 

[Tony Crocker]

anyone heading there should just man up and get with a "fast" group if you want more runs

With the hikes that is completely a function of how well you acclimatize to altitude. Ski ability and fitness level have little to do with it. Frida Waara, who once cross country skied from Greenland to the North Pole, was slow on the hike because she had only been in Colorado 4 days. I was glad I had been in Aspen and Telluride 8 days before I got to Silverton.

 

[TRam]

Tony- You are correct altitude can be a issue for some, it is not something to take lightly. I got off the plane in Denver at 11 am (from Florida) drove the 7 hr in snow to silverton, and rode the next two days. I am a firm believer in ginseng, green tea and lots of water. Maybe I am just blessed geneticaly to handle altitude bettter then average, but the altitude should not stop people from experiencing it.

 

[TRam]

Here is a pic I dug out. This is from the back side of the mountian, what you can expect after a 10 min hike from lift. We entered thru one of the larger chutes on the top ridge. Mind you this was last Jan 8th 2009 not pertant to current conditions.
The entrance

I shot this about 2/3rs down

some front side terrain not yet opened up

cool pic of some of the group coming over the ridge

 

[Tony Crocker]

Maybe I am just blessed genetically to handle altitude

That's the way I see it. I would be seriously slow hiking at 12,000+ the first couple of days, then OK but not up to the locals for awhile, but not "normal" until about a week.

some front side terrain not yet opened up

That was our last run. Much more filled in on March 28.

 

[TRam]

Tony give me a hand with this one. OK so Silverton reported 38 inch from the storm that rolled thru the south west the last few days. After a quick check of some snow reports from NWS found here http://www.crh.noaa.gov/news/display_cm ... 9&source=0
And checking the snotel site on Red mountiain pass which reported 23 inch, I am leaning to believe that silverton mountian recieves more snow then red mountian pass, based on the fact that coal bank pass recieved 42 inch so there claim of 38 is not that far off what could be a local micro climate. Your thoughts....