Impressions of Switzerland and Austria
- Thread starter rfarren
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rfarren
New member
Admin":baskyx6g said:
Ahhh, glacier skiing. I've seen that in a bunch of places in Europe, but those glaciers (that I've seen: Diavolezza, Stubai, Kitzestein, Jungfrau) aren't tremendously large in terms of terrain. The glaciers were more like snow sure additions to the lower terrain, where the vast majority of the skiable area is.
What is Zermatt's snowfall? and again the question remains, how is the avy control in europe?
rfarren
New member
rfarren":3050y9jz said:
This is Ski Club of GB's stats: http://www.igluski.com/switzerland/zermatt-snow-history_1747
Notice the huge difference between snow levels up high and below.
rfarren has seen the summer glaciers, which do tend to be limited in scale and intermediate in pitch. I don't have stats for Zermatt's snowfall, but I've heard in the 150-200 inch range. Like most Euro areas, official measurements are unlikely to be at highest elevations. From the Ski Club Great Britain data you can see that the high elevation snowpack is adequate most of the time.rfarren":cm9xnnqs said:
That's the other key point about skiing in Europe. If you're an advanced skier and want to get the most of your experience you need to hire a guide.rfarren":cm9xnnqs said:
Tony Crocker":22jv6jdl said:
In Zermatt's case intermediate yes, limited in scale no. I've skied the upper 2/3 of the mountain in May.
Tony Crocker":22jv6jdl said:
In most cases (places like La Grave notwithstanding), no way. All you need is snow sense and common sense.
Patrick
Well-known member
Like Admin said above, guides are a good idea, but for not mandatory if you have good knowledge in moving around in the backcountry. I have a few friends (not at the same year or on the same trips) that have been to La Grave without a guide. True, to get the full experience, a guide is better unless you study a lot.rfarren":1faqzojr said:
As for skiing in the Jungfrau ski areas, I really enjoyed it. Definitely among the World Classic ski areas.
As most of you know my Euro experience is limited and much of it has been at areas that reinforce the conventional wisdom about guides.
La Grave is the obvious case. If not a guide, a very trustworthy local and full rescue gear seem appropriate all the time unless you're just staying near the lifts.
On Vallee Blanche guides are required.
Grands-Montets most of what's skiable off the upper tram has glaciers and crevasses. I took my chances with Combe de la Pendant off the gondola on my own.
Le Tour and Brevant-Flegere guides are not necessary but these are more intermediate areas.
Courmayeur we went WAY off-piste so needed the guide.
Verbier is a good example of a massive complex where guiding would greatly speed up the learning curve, so probably worth it your first day or two, then do what you want after that. That's also how I feel about Las Lenas the first time you get a decent day with Marte open.
Serre-Chevalier is a large complex but appeared mostly intermediate.
So yes it depends upon the area, but the areas with most extreme terrain that might attract FTO skiers are those where guides are more likely to be worthwhile, at least some of the time.
La Grave is the obvious case. If not a guide, a very trustworthy local and full rescue gear seem appropriate all the time unless you're just staying near the lifts.
On Vallee Blanche guides are required.
Grands-Montets most of what's skiable off the upper tram has glaciers and crevasses. I took my chances with Combe de la Pendant off the gondola on my own.
Le Tour and Brevant-Flegere guides are not necessary but these are more intermediate areas.
Courmayeur we went WAY off-piste so needed the guide.
Verbier is a good example of a massive complex where guiding would greatly speed up the learning curve, so probably worth it your first day or two, then do what you want after that. That's also how I feel about Las Lenas the first time you get a decent day with Marte open.
Serre-Chevalier is a large complex but appeared mostly intermediate.
So yes it depends upon the area, but the areas with most extreme terrain that might attract FTO skiers are those where guides are more likely to be worthwhile, at least some of the time.
I think there are programs where you can include guiding in lift and lodging packages for far below Extremely Canadian prices. And for situations like Staley's where you are going to live over there for awhile, you can make local contacts and ski with friends who are in some respects the equivalent of guides. Like some of us do on Utah trips. :lol:rfarren":2eeh5tsc said:
Patrick
Well-known member
When I stayed in France for March 2003, I tried to get a guide at La Grave through ski legends (not sure of the name), unfortunately at the end of the month they were all getting ready for the La Grave Derby and not available so I headed for 3 days in Chamonix instead.Tony Crocker":1giqcbeo said:
I'm planning to write a really late TR on this Month one day and post it on the Ski Mad World blog, should I post it here also? I think so, Marc or Tony? Don't worry, I still catching up and putting my old TRs online first and trying to figure a few things out first like pics.
rfarren
New member
Tony Crocker":16s2n8re said:
Except that at Snowbird or Alta, when we stay inbounds, I don't have to worry about avy's. If the avy control is not as good in Europe I want to make sure I have a guide that knows what's up. I'm not saying that the boys out in Utah don't know what's up... it just isn't the same, I'm not going die learning the about the little nooks and crannies inbounds at alta.
rfarren":2x5fkdbj said:
Yeah, you do. Just look at the North Baldy incident a couple of years ago. You may be safer than in the backcountry, and likely safer than in Europe, but that doesn't absolve you of responsibility to have good snow sense and make intelligent decisions. There are plenty of times that I've practiced backcountry travel protocols while in-bounds.