IT'S NOT ABOUT THE MONEY!!!!!

nah, i never really seriously considered bying asc stock... seems a little to volatile of an investment... and my disdain for otten is strictly business not personal.. i'm sure he is a loving father and good husband and all that, but i hate his vision, or what became his vision of the skiing experience. massive blvds of trails, groomed to perfection with perfect packed powder, tons of lifts, top o' the mountian 4 star restaurants and slopeside lodging for all the beautiful people to ski on... i'm sure les loves skiing, but let's face it, generally, we all get up in the morning and go to work to make money. les had a vision in which he thought he could make ( more ) money. to pay for the above described lovely ski experience, he leveraged the house. it bit him in the ass but more importantly, it's one of the big reasons that's gonna keep me from lift accessed bumpin on superstar in late may and " sometimes into june ", as the big sign at the top of superstar proclaims. ( the public is culpable also for not showing a demand for it ) it's nothing personal, but les still sucks!!!
 
Joe, I feel your anger. Not sure if you can blame Les or not. When I met him the industry was all about groomed slopes, safe for the family and all that crap. Les was a guy who understood that the appeal, especially to kids, is the thrill. Maybe he lost that vision, I don't know. What I do know is that I love that resorts are now building jumps instead of crushing them flat. Letting people ski the trees... Not grooming the hell out of every slope. I hope you get to ride and bump in June again soon.
 
I bailed out of ski stocks when SKI was bought out by ASC in June of 1996. I got paid $18 per share and never looked back. I am happy that I did not buy into ASC as they looked to expansion greedy. By the way Killington did not by itself exceed 1,000,000 skier visits until 1987. The company exceeded 1 million visits in 1982, but this was with figures from sister resort Mt Snow added in.
 
Anon: <BR> <BR>What is your feeling about skiing in Connecticut? My local mountain is Mowhawk, this is were my son had his first tracks at age 2. I admit it is a small area but some of the trails are interesting for 640 vertical feet. I like to support the small guys like Mowhawk, Catamount, Plattekill etc, because of low price and close proximity to home.
 
Kevin, <BR> <BR>I first skied Mohawk over 30 years ago. Skied and boarded there 3&1/2 days last season. Boarding makes the trails a whole lot more challenging! We're about 1:15 away, straight down Route 7. I take my son there and we almost always run into someone we know from our town. It sure hasn't changed much in 30 years. Great place. <BR> <BR>Catamount is another throwback. We skied there for my first time in 30 years last season and I enjoyed it thoroughly. I took my son and 2 of his friends. The kids got a kick out of skiing in both MA and NY. <BR> <BR>I'm sorry to say that I have never been to Plattekill. I plan to hit it this year though. I've heard they have some good terrain. <BR> <BR>I've never been a fan of Butternut - too flat.
 
My big problem with Les Otten and his vision is less what he has done to his resorts, but the bad influence that this made to all the other resorts in the east. Now the ski areas are almost obliged to have their HSQ to be considerated like some normal ski areas while the price for that is just too huge for most of the resorts. <BR> <BR>They started a demand for "perfect comfort boring skiing" and it's now the common thing everywhere in the East. On this point, L.O.S.S. like Joegm teached us <IMG SRC="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)">
 
I have a hard time keeping up with the discussions... <BR> <BR>The problem with Les's vision (and Intrawest) is that they know what the average person would like skiing to be like and attracting them by giving them what they want. <BR> <BR>How many people want all lifts to be HSQ or heated gondolas, 100% snow coverage, perfectly groomed trails, etc. This cost alot of money. This cannot be offered by leaving lift tickets as is. (When Whiteface installed their gondola, tickets price jumped from $39 to $46(not sure), and from lower to $46 on midweek). <BR> <BR>For me, I don't care about all this stuff, I just want to ski. I like t-bars, i like double or single chairs and I even like hiking sometimes as long as it get me where I want to ski!!!! <BR> <BR>Not sure if this is the discussion, but the only reason Superstar was a late season trail is that they blowed 40ft $$$$$$$$ of artificial snow on it. I still claim that Cascade/Downdraft were also better late season trail. (as mentioned last spring). Once the transfer for late skiing was made to Superstar, it took Killington a few years before K could reach June again (1992).
 
LOCATION: MT.MANSFIELD <BR>MONTH/YEAR OCT 03 <BR> <BR>DATE MAX MIN OBSN MELTED NEW STAKE <BR>1 41 32 35 0.07 <BR>2 38 29 31 0.06 0.001 <BR>3 35 24 34 0.40 2 2 <BR>4 35 29 35 0.30 0 1 <BR>5 36 28 31 0.73 1 1 <BR> <BR>6 32 27 30 0.03 0.001 0.001 <BR>7 37 27 35 0 0 0.001 <BR>8 54 35 53 0 0 0.001 <BR>9 60 47 58 0 0 0 <BR>10 64 52 63 0 0 0 <BR> <BR>11 66 50 64 0 0 <BR>12 65 48 55 0 0 <BR>13 56 35 46 0.05 0 <BR>14 56 37 46 0 0 <BR>15 47 35 35 3.03 0 <BR> <BR>16 35 25 30 0.28 0.25 <BR>17 29 25 28 0.27 1 1 <BR>18 29 24 26 0.50 0.05 2 <BR>19 29 20 26 0 0 2 <BR>20 28 20 27 0 0 1 <BR> <BR>21 41 27 27 2.36 0 1 <BR>22 30 22 22 0 0 1 <BR>23 22 18 20 0.24 2 2 <BR>24 22 19 22 0.11 0.5 2 <BR>25 30 20 30 0.02 0 2 <BR> <BR>26 48 30 48 0 0 1 <BR>27 49 41 46 2.13 0 0 <BR>28 46 30 32 0.82 0.001 0 <BR>29 40 32 34 1.92 0 0 <BR>30 35 29 32 0.17 0.001 0 <BR>31 56 31 53 0 0 0 <BR> <BR>SUM 13.49 6.804 <BR>HIGH 66 64 2 <BR>LOW 18 20 0 <BR> <BR>DEFINITIONS: <BR>MAX MAXIMUM TEMPERATURE(F) IN LAST 24HRS ENDING AT OBSN. <BR>MIN MINIMUM TEMPERATURE(F) IN LAST 24HRS ENDING AT OBSN. <BR>OBSN TIME OF DATA COLLECTION - 1600 (4:00 PM) <BR>MELTED TOTAL MELTED PRECIPITATION IN BUCKET <BR>NEW TOTAL SNOW IN BUCKET <BR>STAKE TOTAL AT SNOW STAKE LOCATED ON TOLL RD <BR>I got this a little late, but I thought you easterners would be interested. Measurements are from 3,950 ft. on Mt. Mansfield, colder than any lift serviced ski terrain in New England. The only snowmaking opportunity was Oct. 16-26, when it also snowed 3.75 inches. With 3.78 inches water content there was a whole lot of rain too. Then it warmed up and rained 5.24 inches more over the next week. So I'm not surprised there was no October skiing in the East this year.
 
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