Killington closing day 5/11/04

Killington would most definatly be better off with late season skiing at a higher elevation than Superstar. Superstar is just too long and too low to maintain snow without a huge snowmaking expense, but it seems that management and the skiing public has commited the mountain to using that trail. Here is some information based on the topgraphic trail map from 1989-90: <BR> <BR>Superstar length: 3437' <BR>Elevation at top of Superstar Quad: 3700' <BR>Elevation at base of the chair: 2300' <BR>Vertcial Drop:1400' <BR> <BR>My last memories of skiing on Killington peak were on the downdraft trail to the K double chair mid station, so I will use that for a comparison <BR>Since you had to walk over the downdraft headwall <BR>most of the time, the trail and vertical were shorter than what is indicated on the trail map. <BR>Here is my best guess on vertical and length: <BR> <BR>Downdraft length:2600'.To the mid-station, most likely about 2200' <BR> <BR>Elevation at Downdraft headwall: 4000' approximate <BR>Elevation of the Mid-station: 3,450 <BR>Skiable vertical drop: 550' <BR> <BR>So a shorter trail at a high elevation would make more sense than Superstar, personally I like superstar for the ease of access. What other trail would the group recommend?
 
What are the orientation of those trails. <BR> <BR>I mean : Clearly, the Superstar and the Downdraft/Cascade trails are not oriented the same way. <BR> <BR>If Cascade/Downdraft are looking north, they should be some great choice, but there is still the problem of no direct lift. <BR> <BR>I don't remind me of the trail map of Killington, but wouldn't it be possible to replace the Canyon quad by a HSQ with a mid-station at the bottom of the Double Dipper. By this way, it would be possible to ski this side using the mid-station in late spring. <BR> <BR>According to what I see on the trail map (I don't know for real in the mountain), it would be possible and with the East Fall, it could be possible to open the Glades side with a single lift. (even the triple wouldn't be needed, although East Fall is not necessary for all the abilities I guess) <BR> <BR>I don't know exactly how old is this quad, but surely close to 20 years, so don't you think this could be a possibility ?
 
Frank: <BR> <BR>The Canyon Quad is just short of 12 years old, having been installed in September-October of 1992. The SKI annual report for 1993 has a great picture from SEPTEMBER 24th of the lift towers being flown in by helicopter, at the same time that snow is being made on Double Dipper. Cascade and Downdraft seem to have a north orientation. <BR> <BR>With ASC's limited funds available, there other best bet seems to go with early and late season skiing on the same trail. Rime makes the most sense with a top elevation of 4080' and a base of 3450', but they would still have to operate the gondola + a truck for access= $$$$ Basically they screwed themselves into depending on Superstar.
 
Yeah... 12 years old... still a bit young to be replaced, although they replaced (lol) the HSQ of the Superstar not after a lot more years than 12... (if more than 12 at all !) <BR> <BR>But even though this wouldn't be at short term, do you think the idea could be good on a longer term ? Just to keep 1 trail up to the end, but to keep 5-6 trails up to may 10 or so... would be nice, don't you think ? <BR> <BR>Skiing Double Dipper, East Glade, Rime, East Fall, Cascade and Downdraft up to may 10 <IMG SRC="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"> <BR> <BR>With this terrain open, I would come for sure <IMG SRC="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)">
 
Fellas, why does it have to be killington, why doesn't some other resort with a decent elevation, snowmaking capacity, and ambition try to take the late season reigns.
 
I think that it would be better for Killington to Install a base to summit chair than to keep Superstar open late into the year, but ASC does not have the money for this. I would rather see the Pico-Killington interconnect be finished, rather than more money spent on extending the season(asuming they were going to spend some)Killington is falling behind in updating the resort, they need something new to keep skiers comming back. I have skied there for 20+ years, and I have to admit that I'm bored with the place. The interconnect looked like something exciting, and then it fell apart. I think that I will be skiing at Sugarloaf more than at Killington for the near future. I feel that I could never tire of the area, you should really try the place next year if the snow is there. We plan on going for 7-10 days next winter. <BR> <BR>Early season skiing can be done almost anywhere that someone is willing to make snow. Woodbury was decent enough to get the ski motivation going again and Hunter is never far behind. The late season skiing will be harder to get at, if Killington is out of the game. I had heard that Sugarbush reorganized its lift system at north, in order to provide better early and late season skiing. Maybe they could extend the season by alot, but being privatly owned, they probably do not have the funds to do this.
 
It should be Killington for three reasons: <BR> <BR>1) Tradition, Tradition May 1st skiing since 1961. <BR>2) High elevation 3500' to 4000' at the peak. <BR>3) Close proximity to major metro areas. <BR> <BR>Sugarloaf would be able to keep snow for a LONG time into the summer on Timberline, but it is so remote that it would be Prohibitivly expensive. The place has kept snow into August some years and there was still decent skiing last weekend. <BR>Hunter could keep the upper mountain open well into may with their snowmaking capacity.
 
Yeah, and we can add the ski areas in Canada. <BR> <BR>In fact, I must say that if St-Sauveur only close in early may actually, it's because the huge power fares since the late 90s years. Before that, St-Sauveur was closing on Killington, with ends of season passed mid-may all the time. <BR> <BR>Tremblant could beat Killington incredibly easily. It has the north-east orientation, the elevation (2000 to 2900 feet on the Lowell Thomas side) and the latitude, being quite northern than Killington in an area where the weather can be 50 degrees while it's 80 at Killington. + The resort was growing since 10 years, but the south side investments are almost all paid now and the company has begun to seriously make money with the resort. It's why with the stop of Killington to try to end its season late, I think that Tremblant will be the next Killington for late season skiing. <BR> <BR>On the other hand, in the north-south of the province, there is a ski area that actually remain open until may, at 100% open, without snowmaking. Generally, they close cause of the lack of skiers even there. It's still skiable top to bottom in early june, most of the years (in the most northern trails). Give some projects for this ski area and the Valinouet could easily become the last one to close, even without snowmaking !
 
1) Tradition, Tradition May 1st skiing since 1961. <BR> <BR>Who cares, you're not the one losing money. <BR> <BR>2) High elevation 3500' to 4000' at the peak. <BR> <BR>Nowhere else around there is close to that? <BR> <BR>3) Close proximity to major metro areas. <BR> <BR>No closer than 15 or so other resorts. <BR> <BR>Besides, superstar itself isn't any higher than most of the other resorts around there, so there is not advantage there.
 
Oh man, I can't keep up. <BR>I went away for 3 days and there are almost 50 more posts here, and a zillion other threads where Frank is skiing in late may on resorts that closed 2 weeks ago... <BR> <BR>It's just too much to take in and stay sane....
 
hum hum <BR> <BR>La Réserve : closed 40 days before I skied it = almost 6 weeks <BR> <BR>Tremblant closed 34 days before I skied it = 5 weeks <BR> <BR>St-Sauveur closed 12 days before I skied it = 2 weeks effectively ! <BR> <BR><IMG SRC="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"> <BR> <BR>Good courage for your update. When I came back from my weekend, there was something like 20 new messages here and it was already very long to get updated !!
 
Are you the one losing money? I care because Killington has taken great care for the last 40 years to build a late season following and ASC is throwing it in the garbage. Since you seem like a know it all, who do you recommend for late season skiing. ASC is not losing money on late season skiing, but on shitty real estate dealings, a grand summit hotel at every resort, a growing reputation for poor snow quality and a company driven only for pure profit that has lost sight of what skiing is all about, commitment to the sport and its customers.
 
Is it me or this anonymous is not the usual one ? <BR> <BR>Hey usual "anonymous", you should pick a name just to let us see easily when it's you. <BR> <BR>"Anon" did it last year... so you could take "nymous" or something like that ;)
 
Hey Frank, any chance of you going to Sugarloaf next season? I will more than likely be in Canada <BR>as well to ski with my brother, he is out to ski every month in one endless year. He just came back from skiing Timberline Lodge on Sunday in 6" of new snow, but the snow was very heavy and only the Magic Mile chair was running.
 
Hmm, good question Kevin, <BR> <BR>I should have finished the school but my work is likely to be really 50-60 hours by week in winter, so it will be impossible for me to make plans. <BR> <BR>Even this year, it was tough to plan trips, so next year with more responsibilities, it will be a real problem I guess <IMG SRC="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/clipart/sad.gif" ALT=":("> <BR> <BR>It would be cool for sure, though... and since this year, I know many persons that would agree to come in a trip of this kind ! (as going alone in USA for a trip is not necessary something I would do !)
 
I think this will pass 140 posts easy...threads this long with this much passion only prove how much it really does suck when all the snow melts.
 
I understand that you would not want to come alone, just as I did not want to ski at Mt Orford without my brother. This year we will wait until just before we are ready to go up to Sugarloaf, rather than make advanced reservations. I would like to go in January again for childrens week, but only if there is plenty of snow. I would probably go from there to my brother and stay by him and ski Tremblant and others.
 
Here are a few comments on the last few messages: <BR> <BR>Anonymous, we (or at least me) own that snowmaking and operational cost a fortune, this is not we are saying. I agree that blowing 40ft of snow doesn't make sense. We are bitching about K because they have cut off their commitment to late season skiing and still pretending that they haven't. If 75% of the skiers that show up are only season passholders, it's not because there decided not to buy day tickets that they should be penalized as not being a factor in the late season equation. <BR> <BR>The fact that the concentrated late season operations on Superstar (was I the only one who saw this coming that the time?) was a stupid move economically speaking. It ranks you there with the ASC lift re-alignment at Sugarbush North. <BR> <BR>Kevin, I am 100% sure about 1st June 1997, I wasn't sure at the time I made the statement. I skiied also on June 15th that year, yes K would close the next weekend (23?). As for the Killington Peak/Cascades/Downdraft skiing, it was top-to-bottom on the week of May 21-23 (or was it 20-23?) with walking above the headwall, at the bottom of the Canyon and to reach the chair at the base (see pics in last Spring conversation entitled Killington May20-23, 1984 pics). It was also top-to-bottom on the same week in 1987 before moving on to Superstar the following Spring. <BR> <BR> <BR>Tremblant is within 90 minutes from 3.5 millions people, add an extra 1+ millions (Ottawa-Gatineau) within 2 hours. Killington might be quite farther from big cities, however it can tap into many huge metropolitan areas instead of just one. You might not consider Killington a day drive at 3.5 hours, but I do for a few of us. Killington is right in the middle of Montreal (3.5+), Boston (3.5+), Hartford, Albany etc. with the whole New York area a bit further off. I don't know about 30 millions being within a day drive, but it not to far off the mark. <BR> <BR>I agree with anonymous that we cannot expect Killington for making a commitment to push the limits anymore, I don't expect them to spend money into reversing a decision that was made 15 years about about late skiing on Killington Peak. This is not feasible since the double has been removed, the Canyon Quad is not easily accessible without a trunk and a two lift solution is not a solution for ASC problem. Fixing the ASC Sugarbush North fiasco was enough. <BR> <BR>A final point, anonymous I agree that someone else should also try to compete with Killington, however most major areas in the NE belong to ASC. Does anyone remember that Sunday River made it (or almost did) to June 1st, 1994 with WhiteHeat, not Barker. It required two-lifts from the WhiteHeat lodge(?) plus walking to get to the base on the WhiteHeat lift and back to the lodge after (or wlaking up to the downloading lift). <BR> <BR>On a geographic basis (location and mountain), Killington makes more sense than SR... Cannon would be as a great location and mountain, but the fact that it would require two lifts makes it difficult (see last year Spring conversation). <BR> <BR>As for potential areas in Canada, Tremblant could make it to June (they did it 1997), HOWEVER skiing is not the number one Intrawest priority. Tremblant has a fixed closing day around April 18 every year since then. Ste.Anne smaller population based with Quebec City, but they could if they wanted to...but RCR is also having it money problem with it buying spree owning Louise, Fortress, Nakiska and Wintergreen in Alberta, Fernie and Kimberley in BC and Ste.Anne and Stoneham in QC. <BR> <BR>As have a breakdown of my lifttime skidays at Killington somewhere in FTO. <BR> <BR>This message might not seem to make sense, this been writing in bites and pieces since I started it over 3hours ago (ahhn interumption).
 
Man, 9 new messages since started typing. <BR> <BR>Here are the reference from those who weren't here last year and first annual Killington conversation: <BR> <BR><A HREF="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/messages/2508/2397.html?1054210713" TARGET="_top">http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/messages/2508/2397.html?1054210713</A> <BR> <BR>Pictures of the Killington Peak late skiing experience: <BR> <BR>1984 & 85 <BR><A HREF="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/messages/2508/2451.html?1054405710" TARGET="_top">http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/messages/2508/2451.html?1054405710</A> <BR> <BR>1986 & 87 <BR><A HREF="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/messages/2508/2544.html?1055941013" TARGET="_top">http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/messages/2508/2544.html?1055941013</A> <BR> <BR>And mid-June Skiing on Superstar 1992 & 97: <BR><A HREF="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/messages/2508/2576.html?1057030055" TARGET="_top">http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/messages/2508/2576.html?1057030055</A> <BR> <BR>I will have to look into finding Killington day breakdown later.
 
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