LA Fires: Jan 2025

The strength of the winds was an outlier. The seasonality was not. Winter is the most frequent time for Santa Anas because of Nevada/Utah being colder than coastal California. Last time they were this strong was the early December 2011 event that uprooted all of those old growth trees in Pasadena.

What's "very, very unusual" is the intersection of once-a-decade or less Santa Ana wind strength with the <10% odds of so little SoCal rainfall through first week of January.
 
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jamesdeluxe said:
"Officials cautioned that ash in recent burn zones was a toxic mix of incinerated cars, electronics, batteries, building materials, paints, furniture and every other kind of personal belonging. It contains pesticides, asbestos, plastics and lead. Residents were urged to wear protective gear while cleaning up."
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Maybe, but lets be honest, that statement sounds a lot like a politician/bureaucrat trying to cover their arse, just in case. Possible in some areas (eg right next to an auto-battery shop), probably. 'Everywhere' I doubt, without much more proof/detail. Otherwise the officials would also be quarantining all the homes and land anywhere near the fires too for all the toxic stuff that got deposited on them.

Remember, when things burn it literally mostly goes up in smoke (eg into the atmosphere). With some concentration points of too of course.
 
EMSC said:
Maybe, but lets be honest, that statement sounds a lot like a politician/bureaucrat trying to cover their arse, just in case. Possible in some areas (eg right next to an auto-battery shop), probably. 'Everywhere' I doubt, without much more proof/detail. Otherwise the officials would also be quarantining all the homes and land anywhere near the fires too for all the toxic stuff that got deposited on them.

Remember, when things burn it literally mostly goes up in smoke (eg into the atmosphere). With some concentration points of too of course.
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Our officials here, most notably our head of public health like to over do everything and scare people. They can't let a crisis go to waste and not get in front of cameras. We have friends who have listened to her like gospel and still to this day put their kids in N95 masks to go outside and won't let them participate in sports. We had famililes at our school pushing to make kids switch shoes upon going into their class so they didn't bring hazardous ash into the classroom. For what it's worth, we had almost zero ash at any point, we were just lucky with the the flow of the winds, but they don't let facts get in the way of scaring people. Its sad.

While everyone was trying to hurry the clean up and rebuilding they were issuing orders stopping FEMA and the EPA from clearing debris. They were saying 18 months to clear debris, not rebuild, just clearing it.

Not getting political but no one was basically even allowed into most areas last week and after Trump's press conference and confrontation with the mayor the entire area, 100% of it opened yesterday to residents and their contractors (after sitting 2 hours in line for a permit to go home that's only good for 2 weeks). No debris is allowed to be removed as of today, I'd bet that pressure changes that by the end of the week.
 
socal said:
most notably our head of public health
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Is that Barbara Ferrer for L.A. County? L.A. was very aggressive on restrictions during COVID vs. other SoCal counties. The Michael Lewis COVID book said county health commissioners in California have czar-like powers to order unilateral shutdowns and restrictions.

James’ reference makes the valid point that in these areas with a few houses standing surrounded by those that burned, those places are likely not safe to live in without remediation.
 
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jamesdeluxe said:
Marshall Fire
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For instance, those who found ash inside were three times as likely to report headaches compared to those who didn’t find ash; those who reported an odd odor were four times as likely to report headaches compared to those who did not pick up an unusual scent.

People with the same symptoms tended to cluster together, according to computer mapping analyses.
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The authors stress that VOCs are only considered carcinogenic at levels much higher than what they found, and people are regularly exposed to low levels daily through pollution.

Their research found that simple measures, like opening windows and using low-cost, carbon-activated air filters, can substantially improve air quality.
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I'm going with: The details most of the way through the article basically confirm what I had said. A few concentration spots, likely downwind of something other than just a neighbor; It mostly went up in the smoke and based on that final sentence I copied above: many complaining residents of surviving homes didn't even bother to open the windows to air their place out or do a detailed wipe down to get any dust off (granted it was winter time with cold air just a couple days post fire).

Note that despite all the warnings to wear all sorts of protective gear, no levels of of pollutants were found in those surviving homes that actually were considered too high health wise. Doesn't mean you want to have any bad air/dust at all if you can, but the scare warnings seem to be based on 'we don't really know anything for sure but it does stink in the area so we'll cover our arse with various warnings so you can never come back and sue us about it'.
 
Tony Crocker said:
Is that Barbara Ferrer for L.A. County? L.A. was very aggressive on restrictions during COVID vs. other SoCal counties. The Michael Lewis COVID book said county health commissioners in California have czar-like powers to order unilateral shutdowns and restrictions.

James’ reference makes the valid point that in these areas with a few houses standing surrounded by those that burned, those places are likely not safe to live in without remediation.
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That's her, she's the worst. Remember in the summer of 2022 when most people had moved on with life that she tried to reinstate a mask mandate? It took what seemed to be public outcry and the board of supervisors to stop it.

LA Times Link
 
EMSC said:
I'm going with: The details most of the way through the article basically confirm what I had said. A few concentration spots, likely downwind of something other than just a neighbor; It mostly went up in the smoke and based on that final sentence I copied above: many complaining residents of surviving homes didn't even bother to open the windows to air their place out or do a detailed wipe down to get any dust off (granted it was winter time with cold air just a couple days post fire).

Note that despite all the warnings to wear all sorts of protective gear, no levels of of pollutants were found in those surviving homes that actually were considered too high health wise. Doesn't mean you want to have any bad air/dust at all if you can, but the scare warnings seem to be based on 'we don't really know anything for sure but it does stink in the area so we'll cover our arse with various warnings so you can never come back and sue us about it'.
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Logic will never prevail. My 8 year olds friend isn't allow to play sports and wears a mask outside, anytime, to this day. Sad, people get bad info from people they think should be trustworthy but instead its just a bunch of BS from unqualified people who want power.
 
In Santa Clara County, CA where I live "Masks are required for patients, visitors, and staff in patient care areas of health care delivery facilities in Santa Clara County from November 1 through March 31 of each year."
 
I vaguely recall Santa Clara being one of the aggressive counties like L.A.

Fresh air surely dilutes most of the bad stuff unless another Santa Ana stirs it up.

There was one when we were in Canada and there’s about 10 pounds of Eaton Fire ash (pool man’s guess) in our pool that he’s going to vacuum out this week.

The hill above my house burned in Sept. 2002 and 3 months later a Santa Ana blew 50 pounds of ash into our pool. That was measured by the pool man who vacuumed it.

I went to my yoga class at Altadena 24 Hour Fitness Monday. It had been cleaned up and air purifiers installed.

Our instructor lives in the area but outside the burn zone. A relative of hers has a surviving house inside the zone, doesn’t think it’s habitable without major cleanup. The smoke and other airborne toxins get into everything inside the house in that scenario: carpet, furniture, walls, etc.
 
EMSC said:
we don't really know anything for sure but it does stink in the area so we'll cover our arse with various warnings so you can never come back and sue us about it'
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socal said:
Sad, people get bad info from people they think should be trustworthy but instead its just a bunch of BS from unqualified people who want power.
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Not trying to be argumentative but if you were one of the city authorities (as you say, giving phony or highly exaggerated warnings), how would you advise or provide information to people?


I understand the effect of winds dispersing smoke and it being incinerated by flames but is this ⌄⌄ such an unreasonable possibility?
Tony Crocker said:
smoke and other airborne toxins get into everything inside the house in that scenario: carpet, furniture, walls, etc.
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Sign entering Kaiser building for eye exam yesterday. I don't have a problem with mask requirement in place where there might be a lot of sick people or you are in close contact with others in a confined space, but it does tend to fog up glasses that are worn during part of eye exam.
0662MaskingPolicy.JPG

At least they provide masks unlike County facility where I need to take my Mom to podiatrist next week. Last time we went they required masks but did not have any, so I had to go back to car to get one.

Interesting LA Time article that was also in my local paper "U.S. and Australia have long fought fires together. Climate change threatens joint efforts". It doesn't seem like Firefighters from Australia could have gotten to LA in time to prevent a lot of the damage that occurred.

Sorry if behind paywall for anyone. Article includes the following:
"For more than 20 years, the agreement between the U.S. and Australia has operated on a simple principle: Located in opposite hemispheres, the two countries’ fire seasons have historically been asynchronous, allowing the side with less fire activity to send firefighting personnel or equipment to the other.

But climate change is extending fire seasons across the world, spreading existing resources thin. Many now fear that the system of cooperation is beginning to crack."
 
jamesdeluxe said:
Not trying to be argumentative but if you were one of the city authorities (as you say, giving phony or highly exaggerated warnings), how would you advise or provide information to people?


I understand the effect of winds dispersing smoke and it being incinerated by flames but is this ⌄⌄ such an unreasonable possibility?
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I would first find the answer to the question about the quality of the air. For instance the contaminants in air is not unknowable, you can easily test for it and also use the existing air monitors (which you can track in near real time) as a proxy for where contaminants might have gone or when they're in the air. They advised everyone to go to airnow.gov and check things, then said the air was toxic and started giving out N95 masks. Airnow.gov showed excellent air quality, during almost the entire event and week or two after in most areas as the smoke stopped within days and the winds kept moving the air.

Its their job to do their work, gather facts and data, and advise, not make stuff up. There was a few hour period where our mayor posted on X about how bad the air quality was and where to get free masks and also about the camp she was hosting for displaced families, outside. Its incompetence that's hard to comprehend but you shouldn't underestimate.
 
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