E-mail from last night:
Riverc0il needs to go out there and get a tour with Larry. And then call the moving van.
Riverc0il needs to go out there and get a tour with Larry. And then call the moving van.
Larry Schick's Gloating about Crystal Mt.
- Thread starter Tony Crocker
- Start date
claurel
New member
I agree with Larry on most points, though I'd definitely bump the backcountry to the top of the list, and would also mention all the unpatrolled backcountry that's easily accessed from the resort.
I've hit Crystal every weekend this season except during my two trips to ski in Canada. All but two of those weekends have been excellent, with a few easily qualifying as epic. My friends and I used to mix things up more, alternating between Stevens Pass and Crystal. Now, we pretty much just visit Crystal--Stevens Pass is a fine place, but with much less advanced terrain and no avy-controlled backcountry, it just can't compete.
--Chris
I've hit Crystal every weekend this season except during my two trips to ski in Canada. All but two of those weekends have been excellent, with a few easily qualifying as epic. My friends and I used to mix things up more, alternating between Stevens Pass and Crystal. Now, we pretty much just visit Crystal--Stevens Pass is a fine place, but with much less advanced terrain and no avy-controlled backcountry, it just can't compete.
--Chris
I'd say the backcountry is at the top of Larry's list too, given the amount of time he spends out there.
The vagaries of NW weather make Crystal somewhat less than ideal for the vacationing skier. Both of my days there were in heavy not frozen overnight spring conditions, and one of those was in early February.
But for a local's mountain, it's hard to think of one any better. Exhibit A of why Seattle is a better skier's choice of place to live than Denver.
The vagaries of NW weather make Crystal somewhat less than ideal for the vacationing skier. Both of my days there were in heavy not frozen overnight spring conditions, and one of those was in early February.
But for a local's mountain, it's hard to think of one any better. Exhibit A of why Seattle is a better skier's choice of place to live than Denver.
ChrisC
Well-known member
Why Crystal is the best:
Mostly it gets ruined. Especially since there is no pass to funnel cold air.
No. Alpental is way more expert -- it''s 75% at the black end. If you want to f with MBAs, go study the 20-30 min lift waits at the summit chair on weekends...and ask why?
Yep.
Although Stevens and Baker always get better - but not this season.
What - SKI did not poll enough New Yorkers on their favorite views? Crime. Sorry, the people in DC think Keystone is pretty.
Who cares...so is everyone in Seattle. If you lived in Enumclaw, we'd be talkin'.
If you know things, you do not need a guide.
I piss on my gloves to warm 'em up.
Too rich for my bones. The $3 beers are too expensive for me. I do the $1 grill your own hotdogs and PBRs here in rockin' Greenwater.
http://www.bikerfriendlybar.com/Washing ... _water.htm
Riverc0il needs to go out there and get a tour with Larry. And then call the moving van.
Who is River-whatever?
Mostly it gets ruined. Especially since there is no pass to funnel cold air.
No. Alpental is way more expert -- it''s 75% at the black end. If you want to f with MBAs, go study the 20-30 min lift waits at the summit chair on weekends...and ask why?
Yep.
Although Stevens and Baker always get better - but not this season.
What - SKI did not poll enough New Yorkers on their favorite views? Crime. Sorry, the people in DC think Keystone is pretty.
Who cares...so is everyone in Seattle. If you lived in Enumclaw, we'd be talkin'.
If you know things, you do not need a guide.
I piss on my gloves to warm 'em up.
Too rich for my bones. The $3 beers are too expensive for me. I do the $1 grill your own hotdogs and PBRs here in rockin' Greenwater.
http://www.bikerfriendlybar.com/Washing ... _water.htm
Riverc0il needs to go out there and get a tour with Larry. And then call the moving van.
Who is River-whatever?
Though I have not skied them, I would also choose Crystal's terrain advantage over Baker/Stevens' snow advantage.
The controlled backcountry is the most unique feature of Crystal.
I'm more in Chris' camp on the snow preservation issue. But if you live close and have the schedule flexibility Larry has, that doesn't matter much as you're hitting mostly the powder days.
I think Larry was off base to tout percent of expert terrain. Sure Alpental's percent is higher (Baldy's percentage might be higher too), but it's much smaller and usually has crappy snow due to being 2,000 feet lower. I think absolute acreage of expert terrain is the better measure, Crystal is definitely within top ten in U.S., and the only one of those that is not a destination resort.
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The controlled backcountry is the most unique feature of Crystal.
I'm more in Chris' camp on the snow preservation issue. But if you live close and have the schedule flexibility Larry has, that doesn't matter much as you're hitting mostly the powder days.
I think Larry was off base to tout percent of expert terrain. Sure Alpental's percent is higher (Baldy's percentage might be higher too), but it's much smaller and usually has crappy snow due to being 2,000 feet lower. I think absolute acreage of expert terrain is the better measure, Crystal is definitely within top ten in U.S., and the only one of those that is not a destination resort.
I guess Chris doesn't read the eastern boards. Like Larry and most western skiers, he probably thinks eastern skiing is so inferior as to be not worthy of his consideration. I'm more curious. I read the eastern reports in order to determine why and how much inferior eastern skiing is
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jasoncapecod
Well-known member
OUCH
salida
New member
Tony Crocker":1ce53n86 said:I read the eastern reports in order to determine why and how much inferior eastern skiing is
Oh boy, thigh deep in a powder quagmire after saying something like that. I'd hate to point out that Jay's season snowfall total (although being amped up by a steroid induced marketing department) is 12 inches greater than the meager 72 being recorded by Mammoth this season.
My more humble side says Tony is probably right (I did hit enough rocks yesterday to almost put a pair of skis into permanent retirement).
Porter
The nearly equal snowfall at Jay and Mammoth is instructive. Most of Jay's has been washed away by rain. The top of Mammoth's has been blown away by wind, but there's 2000 acres of packed powder lower down. Jay and Mammoth in fact have rather similar long term snowfall averages. But there's light years of difference in average surface conditions and length of season.
Larry Schick has been a professional meteorologist for 25 years. When I once asked him about the finer points of eastern weather, he said "Why do I need to care about that?" He has no interest in ever skiing the East, even at a subsidized NASJA meeting. This attitude is not uncommon out here. Even among us freelance journalists, part of whose job IMHO is to try new ski experiences, western attendance at eastern meetings is dismal.
I have a somewhat different attitude because the SoCal local resorts are fairly good eastern analogies in terms of scale and snow reliability. Therefore I understand that you can get some outstanding ski experiences if you can be at the right place at the right time. But can either SoCal or the East compete as an advance-planned fly-in destination? Not in my opinion.
Larry Schick has been a professional meteorologist for 25 years. When I once asked him about the finer points of eastern weather, he said "Why do I need to care about that?" He has no interest in ever skiing the East, even at a subsidized NASJA meeting. This attitude is not uncommon out here. Even among us freelance journalists, part of whose job IMHO is to try new ski experiences, western attendance at eastern meetings is dismal.
I have a somewhat different attitude because the SoCal local resorts are fairly good eastern analogies in terms of scale and snow reliability. Therefore I understand that you can get some outstanding ski experiences if you can be at the right place at the right time. But can either SoCal or the East compete as an advance-planned fly-in destination? Not in my opinion.
Patrick
Well-known member
Tony Crocker":134f0gvp said:
This is still the same old debate.
East versus West = different experience
Glades versus Open Bowl = different experience
Powder versus perfectly groomed terrain = different experience
Winter snow versus Spring snow = different experience
Winter cold versus Spring/Summer heat = different experience
I could drag the debate on Jay's "Can-Am Super Trail" over here versus the narrow twisting trails. I enjoy both, some prefer narrow trails and some not.
What make skiing great for me is the variety. Some people can ski everyday of every year at the same area, I cannot. I like the change. That's why I loved Mad River Glen, it's different, as long as ski areas don't become like Tennis court with the same look, feel and ski the same, I'm okay.
Give me Powder, Groomed,Hardpack, Moguls, Corn Snow, Open Bowl, Glades, I love it all.
This has probably been debated in every North America ski forum, but Western skiers "generally" cannot apprepriate the Eastern conditions because they are harder to master. This is the reason why some Westerners won't bother skiing difficult conditions. :twisted:
Glades are more plentiful in the West. Lift served Open Bowls are nearly nonexistent in the East. 90+% of eastern skiing is trail skiing, notwithstanding the dedicated few on FTO who seek out the exceptions. Thus on both terrain type and absolute scale West has more variety, the virtue Patrick values most.
But perhaps both are superior to boilerplate, glare ice, isothermic slush and closed trails with inadequate cover.
I love spring skiing as much as anybody, but it does mean fewer hours of the day with pleasant snow conditions. And I like my spring skiing to start in April. Winter in the West = Spring or worse much of the time in the East. Spring in the West = mostly dirt in the East.
I'll give Patrick this one. I'm from SoCal and like warm. He's from Canada and likes cold.
Patrick and I are both firmly in the variety camp. I wouldn't want to ski the same place all the time either, though I suspect many of us would not mind trading our variety for admin's monotony(?) for a few seasons.
Hmmm. The average easterner (not on FTO) has minimal powder skills. And unless they climb Tucks every spring, they'll have some learning to do on Great Scott, High Rustler, KT-22, Jackson Hole, etc. because there is no lift service that steep in the East. This is why I think the PNW skiers have the highest average skills. They get rain and have to ski the same resulting hardpack or slop as easterners. They get massive dumps and have to ski powder of both high and low water content. And at Whistler and Crystal they have serious terrain as long and steep as anybody's in North America.
claurel
New member
Tony Crocker":2tdqbwuz said:
The terrain at Mt. Baker is actually quite good, though the inbounds areas can't beat what Crystal offers. There's no avalanche controlled backcountry, but Baker's liberal backcountry policy (know the avy conditions, have a partner, transceiver, shovel, and probe) makes it easy to reach a lot of excellent skiing from the top of the lifts.
Mt. Baker has some amazing scenery, too. The views of Mt. Shuksan and its hanging glacier are some of the most dramatic mountainscapes you'll see at any ski area. The rugged mountains and the backcountry give the place a big mountain feel that would surprise someone who'd only considered the modest 1500' vertical.
The thing that keeps me from visiting Mt. Baker more often is the the additional hour of driving (relative to Crystal). It makes for a long day trip, especially if I'm skinning up a backcountry route. And if I'm going somewhere for the weekend, Whistler is just an hour and a half further. Regarding Baker's famously prodigious snowfall . . . There are some interesting stats in today's snow report: the cumulative snowfall this season is 430", about 5% short of the record 98-99 season at this point of the year.
--Chris
Patrick
Well-known member
Tony Crocker":2ym3zeaf said:
The point I was trying to make was that which type of terrain/ elements are better, regardless of where? Example, Glades or Bowl? You cannot compare, Apples and Oranges again.
The same Glades/Bowl analogy applies for the West/East comparison. They cannot be compare, not because one is better, but because they a total different type of experience.
Sharon
New member
I wouldn`t mid living in Greenwater.
The roast yer own hot dogs are $3, but it`s all good and the beer is cheaper than the Snorting Elk.
Not too fond of Seattle traffic. Greenwater is a great quiet little place, and it is at the Rainier gateway which offers all kinds of mtn recreation including bc skiing in July.
Sharon
The roast yer own hot dogs are $3, but it`s all good and the beer is cheaper than the Snorting Elk.
Not too fond of Seattle traffic. Greenwater is a great quiet little place, and it is at the Rainier gateway which offers all kinds of mtn recreation including bc skiing in July.
Sharon
Oh great, we're arguing East vs. West again.
I like the part about the shelves for your gloves while peeing. I don't know about calling a moving van. I have been living in a ski area for over a year. It gets boring even with patrolling, working a professional job full-time in the emergency room, involvement in international civic groups, dance classes, new friends and graduate work classes. I am with other ski patrols I know who like to visit, but, not live there. I am glad I had the experience though. No place is perfect; but, if you get bored very easily like I do, look out! 
ChrisC
Well-known member
CWHappyRN":1msefvl8 said:I like the part about the shelves for your gloves while peeing. I don't know about calling a moving van. I have been living in a ski area for over a year. It gets boring even with patrolling, working a professional job full-time in the emergency room, involvement in international civic groups, dance classes, new friends and graduate work classes. I am with other ski patrols I know who like to visit, but, not live there. I am glad I had the experience though. No place is perfect; but, if you get bored very easily like I do, look out!
My brother has lived in a ski-town for a long time - Telluride, CO. Financially, it's been great since he bought property in town many years ago. He's cash-poor and house-rich. However, the turnover of people is high, but there are those who stay on and are consistent. I cannot walk into a bar there without getting recognized...and I visit for maybe 5-15 days per year. That's nice.
I do not have a high opinion of ski town folk. Generally, they are looking for a party...and not too much more. 30/40-something frat boys are a bit pathetic. Even more pathetic - if you buy a ski area like Telluride and get kicked out of town bars because you a raging alcoholic.
The biggest problem is housing in ski towns. With this 2000 +/- real estate run up...you cannot live where you work anymore in ski towns. Unfortunate but true.