making lemonade out of lemons

S

sszycher

New member
I was hoping to tap into some local knowledge. Of course, this relates to current hot topic on the board, concerning conditions in the Northern Rockies next week. Hey, we've beaten a dead horse this much, what's another few whacks? :o

On 1/31, I am considering trying to continue on from SLC to Jackson WY (by air). I would then really need to go back to SLC the following evening (2/1), where I'll subsequently ski Northern Utah on 2/2 & 2/3 before flying back East. I was hoping some folks could offer insights into the following:

-If flights & such go well, is it possible to leave the Jackson airport at, say, 1:15 ish and still get in some meaningful skiing at JH or Targhee that afternoon? Let's define "meaningful" as at leat 2 hours. I can't justify paying a 1/2 day ticket for 1 hour.

-If the above answer is yes, what's the closest hill to the airport?

-If my ultimate intention is to ski Targhee on 2/1 (with the hopes that Weds nite it will snow a bit in that area, which is speculation @ this point), what are some lodging options around there? Should I start looking into value-priced lodging in Driggs ID? Are there small motels around Targhee? Should I even bother contacting Targhee about lodging on mountain or would I be looking at $200-$300/nite, even if they would be willing to do just one nite's stay?

Of course, if my airline (Delta) plays hardball w/me regarding adding a Jackson leg to the trip, then this is all moot (i.e. charging an insane price for a short distance flight like that). But I'm looking into options for a day or 2, and the Jackson area is just close enough to consider something unusual like this. However, given the fact that I really need to get back to SLC on Thurs eve 2/1, the drive times back & forth would take too long, I reckon.

Either way, I'm praying that at least some snow will fall across UT around 2/2. This scenario also presupposes that Targhee will currently offer better conditions than SLC next week. I know UT had a bit of a warmup (see Admin's Brighton report, and the guys I'm meeting confirmed this situation), but I think Targhee didn;t get quite as warm. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.
 
sszycher":m531o99c said:
-If flights & such go well, is it possible to leave the Jackson airport at, say, 1:15 ish and still get in some meaningful skiing at JH or Targhee that afternoon? Let's define "meaningful" as at leat 2 hours. I can't justify paying a 1/2 day ticket for 1 hour.
Click to expand...

I can't remember if you said that you're working with a normal ticket or a FF reward. I'd bet money that you don't get a good price on a ticket for that SLC-JH leg though.

But if things were to work out and you arrived at 1:15 pm, the only option for mid-afternoon skiing is Snow King, which is a fun town hill. Here's a piece I wrote about it a while back:
http://www.snowjournal.com/page.php?cid=doc762

In a month, we're flying on Delta to JH and the flight arrives from SLC at about 12:15 (are you sure you've got the correct arrival time?), and that's exactly what we're going to do before driving on to Grand Targhee.
 
I have no personal knowledge on point, but word I've heard is that JHMR is hurting more than we are right now. I just can't see all of that hassle being worth it.
 
Jim deluxe, sorry I couldn't respond last nite.

You're right, a flight from SLC arrives @ the Jax airport around 12:15; I allowed an hour for de-planing, getting luggage & ski's, getting a rental car etc. Hence the ballpark 1:15 time for hitting the road (and that might be optimistic).

Nonetheless, Snow King would prob be a great option to get on a hill ASAP. I forgot all about that area.

Admin: You're right, it was never really my intention to go to JHMR, unless that was my only options when flying in that morning. Their steep stuff needs snow, and lots of it. The whole crux of a possible inconvenient/expensive side trip to WY would be to hit Targhee on 2/1, under the hope that they get some snow Weds nite or Thursday. I hear Targhee does well to wring out upslope snows under a NW wind.
If anyone has skied Targhee recently and wants to put his her 2 cents in, please do!! Specifically, if the recent warm up hit WY, too (i.e. 35-40+ degrees on the hills), then my plan makes even less sense than sticking with UT.

Tonight I will get on the phone to Delta and see how much they twist the knife in me for all this, then make a decision.
 
i think you are nuts to do it, but there is another factor. i have friends that work that flight and it is frequently delayed or worse, even if its not snowing
 
I also think this is a dumb idea. Lots of aggravation for marginal if any gain. Bob Peters at JH says their conditions are OK in terms of coverage (like LCC) but surfaces are unlikely any better and can get worse fast if it warms up.

Use your car to go up there for a few days IF IT ACTUALLY SNOWS THERE and NOT in Utah.

If you're going to overhaul this trip radically, get some bang for your buck by going to Seattle or Spokane.
 
I think the "dumb idea" proponents win the day. While I suspect WY may do a little better with the cold front coming thru, it's a lot of hassle for speculative reasons, and only one full day of skiing WY (Thursday). And the latest forecasts say it's looking a little better that the high elevations of N. UT will get some snow Weds nite or Thursday.

I'd have to say at this point, I'm sticking w/UT for better or worse, and hoping like hell the Wasatch can wring out 3" - 6" (and that may be a real stretch). I suspect my only alteration might be to delay meeting my buddies @ PowMow until Thurs nite, and hitting the Cottonwoods on Weds afternoon and Thursday, assuming they make out a little better than the Ogden areas from this system.

I must say, I had great luck w/weather & snow conditions on my trips to UT in the 90's. This millenium, my record has been awful (early Feb 01, late Jan 03, and the trip this week).

Personally, I attribute this climate change...more snow droughts and warm ups along with big snow years (04, 05). All I can say is this: during the 90's, it used to be money in the bank that you'd at least get pp conditions in the Wasatch from Xmas - mid March, and could therefore book a trip weeks or months in advance and not worry. It's a lot harder to do that these days. Hey, I'll still have fun, but I'm just calling it like I see it.
 
Personally, I attribute this climate change...more snow droughts and warm ups along with big snow years (04, 05)
Click to expand...
This is demonstrably not true. Alta December 1966 - March 1986 monthly average 93.61 inches with standard deviation 41.10 inches. Alta December 1986 - March 2006 monthly average 87.82 inches with standard deviation 36.68 inches. Less variability in the past 20 years than the previous 20, though neither difference in average nor standard deviation is meaningful. I'll repeat this again; there is NO trend in snowfall over the past 30 years in any of the 97 areas in North America that I measure except for low altitude (<4,000 ft.) in the Pacific Northwest.

Since I last commented ~3 weeks ago this season has moved from the "close to average" category to distinctly below average. However it's not even close to the overall bad seasons of 1977, 1981, 1987 and 1992. Please note how long ago these seasons were, and that it's been 15 years since the last one. 2002 was the worst since then, primarily because it was bad in Colorado, which contains about 1/4 of the areas I track.

In the list below I list:
1) the number of areas supplying at least December to March data, the season, and average grade of the areas with data. Grading: 10 = record high; 8 = >1 standard deviation above average; 6 = above average by < 1S.D.; 4 = below average by < 1S.D.; 2 = >1 S.D. below average; 0 = record low.

#of Areas/ Season/Scale of 0 to 10
70 2005-06 5.49
69 2004-05 4.78
72 2003-04 4.50
74 2002-03 4.62
71 2001-02 4.00
72 2000-01 4.50
70 1999-2000 4.74
78 1998-99 5.79
75 1997-98 5.15
78 1996-97 6.67
72 1995-96 5.47
78 1994-95 5.85
82 1993-94 4.66
84 1992-93 6.31
84 1991-92 2.98
81 1990-91 4.54
80 1989-90 4.38
85 1988-89 4.78
74 1987-88 4.24
76 1986-87 3.61
74 1985-86 4.08
73 1984-85 4.71
68 1983-84 5.50
62 1982-83 5.58
58 1981-82 6.72
41 1980-81 2.49
46 1979-80 5.17
48 1978-79 5.75
43 1977-78 5.95
33 1976-77 2.42
36 1975-76 4.56
34 1974-75 6.35
30 1973-74 6.40
29 1972-73 4.97
25 1971-72 6.24
21 1970-71 6.67
18 1969-70 4.89
15 1968-69 6.93

38 Yr Avg 5.06

Since North American ski regions are spread out so much, the vast majority of seasons average out between 4 and 6. In one region's bad year, someone else is usually doing well. Like PNW and Western Canada this year. The high years in 1975 and prior are somewhat suspect since data is limited, with Colorado making up about half the proportion of data as in the 1980's and later. My guess is that 4 of those 6 seasons above 6 would be much lower with more Colorado representation.


Personal experience is a very poor way to draw conclusions about weather, expecially when its based upon a handful of trips per season away from the region where you live. I've skied Utah in 20 different seasons, and my experience there still doesn't "fit" the averages/expectations. I've only had one trip with what I'd call marginal conditions (Christmas 1986, and Alta/Brighton were still decent), but I also have probably had only about half as much fresh powder as one might expect for Alta/Snowbird.
 
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