Mt. Baldy, May 1, 2010

[Tony Crocker]

http://www.latimes.com/news/science/env ... 6013.story

I can’t tell for sure if the map included with this article includes Stockton Flats/Lytle Creek in the proposed wilderness designation, but it seems likely.
http://www.latimes.com/news/science/env ... 77.graphic

There’s a middle fork Lytle Creek designated as wild and scenic river, but I think that’s east of Baldy, not north. I assume we need to get David Dreier’s attention that Baldy proposed expansion terrain not be included in the proposed addition.

 

[Mike Bernstein]

http://www.latimes.com/news/science/environment/la-me-0516-sangabriels-20100516,0,4146013.story

I can’t tell for sure if the map included with this article includes Stockton Flats/Lytle Creek in the proposed wilderness designation, but it seems likely.
http://www.latimes.com/news/science/env ... 77.graphic

There’s a middle fork Lytle Creek designated as wild and scenic river, but I think that’s east of Baldy, not north. I assume we need to get David Dreier’s attention that Baldy proposed expansion terrain not be included in the proposed addition.

If that map is correct, judging by the location of San Antonio Creek (also to be designated as wild), all of the ski area and most of the possible expansion terrain are already within the Cucamonga Wilderness area. Is that true? I think you're right that the Middle Fork of Lytle Creek is to the east (and a little south) of Baldy. In fact, I think the headwaters of the creek are at the saddle between Thunder and Telegraph.

 

[Tony Crocker]

all of the ski area and most of the possible expansion terrain are already within the Cucamonga Wilderness area.

No, almost by definition. Wilderness is the most stringent definition of preservation, much more stringent than a National Park. No roads, no bikes, no structures, nothing manmade of any kind within a wilderness boundary. You can tell from that map there's a sliver of non-wilderness on the east side of San Antonio Creek. That would be the existing ski area, Icehouse canyon and the roads to them. It's the proposed eastern extension of Sheep Mountain Wilderness that is worrisome. While it does not connect to Cucamonga Wilderness on that map, Tom Traccar's response to my inquiry was, "This has become a problem." So I encourage SoCal skiers to write to your representatives, especially if you live in David Dreier's district.

I think the headwaters of the creek are at the saddle between Thunder and Telegraph.

While that area undoubtedly drains north into Lytle Creek, the headwaters of Lytle Creek drain the area north of chair 4 extending west of the top of that chair to Mt. Harwood. That is precisely where I skied the backside tour on May 31, 1998. There is a rough dirt road up Lytle Creek along the bottom of that canyon north of chair 4. A fire road comes up from that to the Notch just north of the base of chair 4, joining the intersection of Mullin's Mile and Roller Coaster. With a paved road up Lytle Creek, the entire north facing area from Telegraph to Harwood would have backcountry draining down to that road.

 

[Mike Bernstein]

all of the ski area and most of the possible expansion terrain are already within the Cucamonga Wilderness area.

No, almost by definition. Wilderness is the most stringent definition of preservation, much more stringent than a National Park. No roads, no bikes, no structures, nothing manmade of any kind within a wilderness boundary.

Which is why I asked if that could be right. Didn't make sense.

You can tell from that map there's a sliver of non-wilderness on the east side of San Antonio Creek. That would be the existing ski area, Icehouse canyon and the roads to them. It's the proposed eastern extension of Sheep Mountain Wilderness that is worrisome. While it does not connect to Cucamonga Wilderness on that map, Tom Traccar's response to my inquiry was, "This has become a problem." So I encourage SoCal skiers to write to your representatives, especially if you live in David Dreier's district.

Not good.

While that area undoubtedly drains north into Lytle Creek, the headwaters of Lytle Creek drain the area north of chair 4 extending west of the top of that chair to Mt. Harwood. That is precisely where I skied the backside tour on May 31, 1998. There is a rough dirt road up Lytle Creek along the bottom of that canyon north of chair 4. A fire road comes up from that to the Notch just north of the base of chair 4, joining the intersection of Mullin's Mile and Roller Coaster. With a paved road up Lytle Creek, the entire north facing area from Telegraph to Harwood would have backcountry draining down to that road.

We were talking about the Middle Fork of Lytle Creek only. I am aware that the prospective expansion terrain would drain into one of the forks. Regardless, based on a second look at the map, it's clear that the Middle Fork of Lytle Creek is actually a bit further south than I had surmised. It's south of Telegraph entirely, running up towards Cucamonga Peak and to the southeast of Icehouse Canyon.