Mt. Waterman, CA 2/21/09

[bludbut]

2.21.09 Mt Waterman

What an awesome day! Got on the hill about 9.15. Lift ticket line was really long! Warm and kinda greybird all day. The N facing stuff was still wintery till about noon then everything turned to creamed cheese and then mashed potatoes. Had a killer run down to Hwy 2 and met some really cool folks, bbq'd, partied and had a great time! Skied some runs on the lifts up top in the afternoon and still found some fresh turns. Even the "people watching" up at Waterman is very entertaining, all kinds of people up there which makes for an ecletic bunch of So cal powder hounds. Another 9 out of10. Very few snow players on Hwy 2 today which was strange compared to last weekend? Maybe the bike race scared them off.

Pics are random from throughout the day,

 

[Admin]

bludbut, for clarity's sake I split this off as a separate topic from last week's TR.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Damn, that looks nice. I haven't navigated through the massive SoCal thread... how is Waterman doing financially?

 

[Tony Crocker]

258 tickets sold with epic conditions on Saturday of President's weekend is not promising IMHO. Hard to believe yesterday was any more than that, but someone who was there both days should comment on that.

 

[mammothsnowman]

Sweet we got the BROS at Mt Waterman... I will tell Splat. You guys rock it!

 

[jamesdeluxe]

258 tickets sold with epic conditions on Saturday of President's weekend

Interesting. How do you explain people passing up Waterman on days like that... +/- one hour away? You'd think that a dead economy would help the close-in ski areas. I recall Tony complaining about Baldy's unreliable mountain ops; is MW like that too?

 

[Tony Crocker]

Waterman was closed for 5+ seasons. I don't see/hear advertising, so how many people know it reopened?

Mt ops are going to be more erratic at "mom and pop" places that run on a shoestring. It goes with the territory, and I've learned to live with it and make my best judgments. Sometimes, like last Tuesday, I still make a BIG mistake.

Baldy does have legitimate issues with violent weather during storms, icing of lift cables etc. Waterman has an unavoidable issue with 20 miles of its road access being snow-covered with delayed opening during/after colder storms.

SoCal demographics, with the dominance of snowboarding and the park scene, has contracted the market for Baldy/Waterman type skiing a lot since the 1980's. They have demanding terrain and snow conditions, often limited for beginners and tough on intermediates. So Big Bear and Mt. High get 95% of SoCal skier/rider visits.

The jury is still out on the economic impact. When the data comes out it will be regional, so hard to sort out. In terms of snow Mammoth and SoCal are above average, Tahoe good now but a slow start, Oregon pretty good, Washington well below average. When lumped together as "Pacific West" in the Kottke Report, who knows what we'll see? I think the "Rockies" section of Kottke will be more illuminating.

 

[K2VLAD]

Very nice pics. We enjoyed our day as well up a beautiful Mt Waterman. Since i'm a pass holder we were able to avoid the monstrous ticket line grab tix right away. We got a few cracks at the face, which had fresh lines . The snow had a light crust layer but was fun and managable.

we got over to chair 2 when they started up and feasted on the famous 4dayold Waterman Pow! the snow was actually quite nice at the top

then we tried a road run. It was fun, however the snow was definitely somewhat gooey and grabby for both skis and boards

then it was time to enjoy the ambience , cuisine and the warm temps over at the lodge... there was a good size crowd at the mountian ,, good to see to old place alive and well......

 

[bludbut]

258 tickets sold with epic conditions on Saturday of President's weekend is not promising IMHO. Hard to believe yesterday was any more than that, but someone who was there both days should comment on that.

I'll comment. I have been up there the last two Saturdays and this last one there was way more people. If there was 253 the previous week there was at least 506 this time. Double the amount for sure. That sounds totally ridiculous as far as ski numbers go and money made per head compared to any other ski area on the planet. It was still very uncrowded on the slopes other than the ticket line @ 8:30 a.m. I think the word got out how sweet the snow was the week before so everyone brought their friends up with them this time. That was the gist I got from banter in the ticket line.
It's not very often that we get these conditions in the San Gabriel's so for the most part we have been very blessed the last two weeks. Not everyone knows (obviously) that Waterman even exists and that is a good thing for skiers and a bad thing for the owners. Kinda weird really that this place even exists and that's what makes it so special on days like last Saturday. For those of us that have skied Waterman since we were younger,we now how special it can be (Snowman). So for newbies it's a whole new experience that is not advertised and is like no other ski area in So Cal. God Bless Mt waterman and everyone involved in keeping it going no matter what the conditions and circumstances prevail.

 

[Tom Moriarty]

Ticket sales at Waterman started to drop when Mammoth, then Big Bear got High Speed Quads. MW was always a great alternative to the long lift lines that these areas had on weekends and we could always plan for about a 1000 -/+ skiers on the weekends. That is why Lynn would always book a shuttle bus to roam the parking areas. The next drop came with snowboarding and the riders wanting park.

Waterman can get back to 1000 skier days due to Mt High and Big Bear having sell out days on the weekends. But you can't just cater to the expert skier, you have to have rentals, lessons, and decent Food & Beverage. A lot of the business we got on weekends were groups from the organizational camps a few miles down the road, they were most of the skiers on Chair 2. This is no longer an option without rentals and lessons available. They would also have to put up some park features around Chair 2 & 3 and the old Race Course area.

Another problem is that the Antelope Valley market has been cut off from Waterman on good snow days due to the L.A. County Roads dept. refuses to keep Angeles Forest Highway open when there is snow and ice. I have continue to fight them over this asking why on the weekends are the county roads not open with chain control. People in the AV are not going to drive an hour to La Canada and then start up another hour on the Angeles Crest Hwy. when they can get to Mt. High in under an hour. This also stops the ones that cannot get a ticket at Mt. High from coming around to MW. I did receive an email saying next year they will change their philosopy and keep it open with chain control.

 

[SoCal Rider]

I have heard two or three Waterman ads on KFI. I'd really like to come, but I have four more $5 passes to Baldy, which is 25-30 miles closer. I also have two more Bear/SS comp tix (Christmas) and a MH pass, so I guess I'm kinda waiting until spring, after some of those other far cheaper options have been used.

 

[ski-the-face]

well atleast mt waterman is honest with snow reports, mt baldy reported 4-6 feet. today you were lucky to be skiing 2 feet.
what i love about mt waterman is that its weekends only, powder hounds dream. when you have the snow falling with less wind than baldy the quality will be better. its quite a nice thing to have utah like snow(last weekend) and only 250 people competing for it. this is something only mt waterman can claim. no matter how unfortunate it is for the owners.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Baldy's reports (both new snow and base depths) appear to be based upon the sheltered core area of Thunder. For chairs 1 and 4 those of us who know the area and recent weather need to adjust accordingly. This is a common practice among ski areas: pick the sector of the mountain that gets and preserves the most snow, then take your measurements there.

when you have the snow falling with less wind than Baldy the quality will be better.

This is usually true. But Baldy does have that extra 600 feet of elevation, and with respect to steeper terrain close to 1,000.

Waterman does have a useful niche IMHO, and after my experience Feb. 14 I will definitely be back. But I still expect to ski Baldy more often.

 

[snowave]

awesome TR's and insight... thanks for sharing. Probably won't be able to get back to waterman unless they ever open on more weekdays due to work.

 

[SoCal Rider]

I'm pretty sure someone in here questioned snowfall from one of the previous storms. Plus, the reported 17"-30" had a very MH-esque ring to it, considering Waterman is 1K vert?

 

[socal]

I had questioned their reporting after skiing there 2 Saturday's ago. That Friday, when the quick burst of snow came through they were reporting 6-8 inches (with Baldy saying 8-12). Then I woke up in the morning, and checked and they had 12-18 or something like that posted. Keep in mind, I'm pretty sure it didn't snow after the snow that fell during the day on Friday.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I think the Friday the 13th storm was 8-10 inches. But there was 18-24 the previous Monday and Mt. Waterman was closed midweek. That was part of my reason for going there on the 14th. So from a skiing perspective it was like ~2 feet new, but I agree it's misleading to claim all of it came Friday vs. earlier in the week.

I've learned over the years to take the reports with a grain of salt. That's why I check all of them and compare. What goes in my snow stats is an average. I usually get to check with Garry Klassen for a first-hand view of Baldy as well.

 

[ChrisC]

A lot of the business we got on weekends were groups from the organizational camps a few miles down the road, they were most of the skiers on Chair 2. This is no longer an option without rentals and lessons available. They would also have to put up some park features around Chair 2 & 3 and the old Race Course area.

I was searching the Waterman website and - finally - found a trail map.

The layout looks a bit unfortunate for the average skier.

Reminds me of June Mt. / Heavenly CA side. A steep wall - which probably does not hold snow that well - requiring a major transportation project to get normal skiers on moderate terrain. I understood June tried to solve that problem with a major version 1.0 funitel - and that had to be ripped out. Now they are down to rickety double which is sad. Heavenly has the tram and quad working for them, but still the first 2 out of 3 layers of Heavenly CA are not great terrain.

I just think it would be hard for Waterman to compete with inherent natural terrain of the mountain.

Does it look like great terrain for advanced skiers? No doubt. But the setup just seems to be another hurdle.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Doesn't appear that they ponied up the money to have a James Niehues special:

Do you walk/skate from the top of Chair 1 to the other chairs?
:-k

 

[ski-the-face]

Do you walk/skate from the top of Chair 1 to the other chairs? :-k

No, none of the trail maps they have ever had really show how you get to chair 2. chair 2 is at a lower elevation than the top of chair 1.

A steep wall that probably does not hold snow very well

it actually does very well since it is so shadow because its a north. chairs 2 and 3 are usually the first to close