(non-skiing) Erickson Lakes, Uinta Mts, Utah 9/6-7/09

[Marc_C]

I therefore tend to think about, and probably talk about, Utah as, well, kinda dry. Even acknowledging Utah's significant pockets and "islands" of green, I don't think this is an unfair general characterization of the landscape. I also think that any transplant from the NE must understand this.

Utah is indeed dry. The second driest in the nation, as pointed out up-thread. The problem lies in conflating dry with lack of green, of equating desert with barren mineral and dirt landscape where noting grows, of assuming dry means no farmland. Sure, it ain't Vermont lush green - just quit telling we who live here that it's brown, 'cause it ain't that, either.

 

[Admin]

Good Lord, must everything I post regarding Utah develop into a food fight? :roll:

 

[Marc_C]

Let's be fair here. Is Utah drier than the midwest, east coast, and west coast? Well.... duh. Is it green? Well, that's relative. I've seen photos of SLC and Deer Valley in July, and it is pretty green. Is it forested heavily? No, but is it green. Remember that town of midway? It may not have been "charming" but it was green. I couldn't argue that.

See folks? He gets what I'm trying to say.

 

[Marc_C]

Good Lord, must everything I post regarding Utah develop into a food fight? :roll:

It's a fun diversion, given the lack of snow and it having been a difficult year for some of us.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Back in the early 90s, we drove up from NM to visit the Canyonlands. On the way back, we mountain biked in the Manti-LaSal forest, and there were cows everywhere... not just a couple like in Admin's picture, but LOTS. Kinda bummed us out to see the USFS living up to its "Land Of Many Abuses" credo. I never understood how letting cows graze on federal land was in the public's best interest.

 

[Admin]

Back in the early 90s, we drove up from NM to visit the Canyonlands. On the way back, we mountain biked in the Manti-LaSal forest, and there were cows everywhere... not just a couple like in Admin's picture, but LOTS.

I'm guessing that the herd we encountered was about 100 head. The three who stared at us making camp were just the ballsy ones.

 

[Marc_C]

...there were cows everywhere... not just a couple like in Admin's picture, but LOTS. Kinda bummed us out to see the USFS living up to its "Land Of Many Abuses" credo. I never understood how letting cows graze on federal land was in the public's best interest.

Well, it's in the cattle rancher's best interests, and they're part of the public... 8-[
There are two things to remember about that part of the state:
1) it's pretty arid (as you may have noticed) and thus sparsely vegetated (as compared to wetter elsewheres). A cow here needs about 400 acres of rangeland for sufficient feed. Quite a bit different from the cow/acre of NE.

2) the land is a real patchwork of USFS, BLM, and to a much lesser extent SITLA (school trust) lands. There's a whole faction of politics that believes that the land should be "used" - and somehow the extractive industries soundly trump recreational use. Remember that BLM actually stands for Bureau of Livestock and Mining. Probably something to do with profit, lobbyists, and kickbacks. Over 85% of the land area in Utah is owned by the federal government.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

the land is a real patchwork of USFS, BLM, and to a much lesser extent SITLA (school trust) lands. There's a whole faction of politics that believes that the land should be "used" - and somehow the extractive industries soundly trump recreational use. Remember that BLM actually stands for Bureau of Livestock and Mining. Probably something to do with profit, lobbyists, and kickbacks. Over 85% of the land area in Utah is owned by the federal government.

When we stopped in Blanding for ice and vittles, a local schooled us in the politics of land use, and covered some of those points. The economics of raising cattle in an arid environment defy common sense, but thank god the BLM is there to grease the machine.

 

[rfarren]

The greenest place I've ever been is Ireland. It is way greener than the northeast, but believe I would never want to live there. It rains I believe somewhere around 300 days a year. It never gets warm, but neither does it get too cold. Personally, I like that Utah looks different than the North East. It's aesthetically pleasing, at least in terms of scenery. Besides it makes side country skiing really really fun.

Good Lord, must everything I post regarding Utah develop into a food fight? :roll:

It's a fun diversion, given the lack of snow and it having been a difficult year for some of us.

I think we can all agree on this. If we couldn't take it we wouldn't dish it.

 

[rfarren]

That Koppen thing is pretty cool.

 

[Marc_C]

The greenest place I've ever been is Ireland. It is way greener than the northeast, but believe I would never want to live there. It rains I believe somewhere around 300 days a year. It never gets warm, but neither does it get too cold. Personally, I like that Utah looks different than the North East. It's aesthetically pleasing, at least in terms of scenery. Besides it makes side country skiing really really fun.

Good Lord, must everything I post regarding Utah develop into a food fight? :roll:

It's a fun diversion, given the lack of snow and it having been a difficult year for some of us.

I think we can all agree on this. If we couldn't take it we wouldn't dish it.

Besides, Admin hasn't been here long enough - he's still from away!

 

[Admin]

Besides, Admin hasn't been here long enough - he's still from away!

 

[Tony Crocker]

That Koppen thing is pretty cool.

High resolution world map, more accurate than the US state map:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... en_Map.png

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Heh, muskies... haven't seen that in a while. When we were kids, my father used to take us fishing in Ontario, north of Ganonoque. IIRC, Muskies used to hang out under trees along the shore. They were big and catching one was a major accomplishment... not sure why, because no one ate them.