Planned opening days

Hey, I just got the Jay Peak's expansion map... I will scan it and send it here after my hiking trip, this evening ! <BR> <BR>Next year = 3 more lifts at Jay... wow... with a good 20 new trails...
 
The stats got started as a result of my facility with numbers, obsessive-compulsive nature, and the early development of my ski career. It's long-winded and tangential to the specific question, so I've put the latter in a separate post.

In November/December 1978 I started to count vertical as a means of measuring my stamina/progress in skiing. This was very easy for me by just maintaining a running total, counting each chairlift as I boarded it. As my prior 20 days of skiing had been mostly at a beginner level at just a handful of areas, reconstruction/approximation of those days from trail maps wasn't that hard either.

The handwritten records I began in 1978-79 are less elaborate than Frank's. For each day skied I have the following info:

Date
Area Skied
Letter Grade and short description of weather/snow conditions.
Vertical Skied
Estimated Powder Vertical (added in 1980)
Short description of the day, noteworthy runs skied, sometimes people with whom I'm skiing.

This is all in small print, and one season generally fits on one piece of paper. No more than 5-10 minutes to fill out a ski day, even at big areas.

In 1993 I input my personal ski data into the computer and wrote the programs to sort it every which way. Now, at the end of each season it takes only about 2 hours to input a new season and run and print all the results. With minimal extra effort, I put Adam's ski stats through the same programs and give him a summary of his skiing since age 4.

I did get the Avocet Vertech watch in December 1995, so I can now count vertical the lazy way if I want, or no longer have to bug managements that don't post vertical on their trail maps.
 
My father was from Maine and my mother from Idaho, and they decided to live in SoCal because they both hate snow. I first saw snow fall at college in New Jersey.

Introduction to skiing was a total fluke. A friend invited me along on his uncle's high roller junket to Las Vegas for New Year's 1976. The uncle was from Miami and his daughter wanted to see snow, so we all went out to Lee Canyon (now Ski Las Vegas) and got rentals and played around on a 100-foot handle tow for a couple of hours.

Intrigued, I checked out my closest local area (Baldy, not a good choice for a beginner) when it finally snowed in February 1976. On my second Baldy day in March 1976 I blew out my left ACL and was not walking normally for the next 3 months. As the knee is not unstable, I didn't know the nature of the injury until an MRI revealed it 19 years later.

I was still interested in skiing and managed 5 days in 1977, which was dominated by my then overriding obsession of tournament bridge. I put in some more effort in 1978, becoming your typical low intermediate, sort of parallel skier on the easy runs, by March of that 12-day season. April 1-2 and May 13-14 were my first Mammoth trips.

By now I had the bug, but I was troubled by my slow progress as a beginner, consistent with my dismal performance at nearly all sports while growing up. I'd begun reading about skiing and was aware of the prevailing opinion that "skiing is easy to learn, but very hard to break through the intermediate plateau and ski carved turns, steep terrain and variable snow."

I was also very sore after those 2 Mammoth weekends and therefore started YMCA ski fitness classes in November 1978. The snow gods smiled upon SoCal in 1978-79 and I was able to ski at least one day of every weekend from November 18 until April in SoCal if I wasn't at Mammoth.

By April 1979 I had skied 30 days, the feared "intermediate plateau" was history and I was a true addict. I was carving turns by February, and I had a 50K weekend at Mammoth March 31/April 1 which included my first runs on Wipe Out/Drop Out. At this point there was no question that I would continue to keep records of my ski days.
 
Thanks for your stats specifications and for your history of skiing ! It's great to see where we started !! <BR> <BR>Really good for you to have learned it not being a kid... it's quite less easy I think.
 
There has been some mention about Woodbury Ski area making early season snow. For anyone who wants to see the progress of there snowmaking eforts this season, there website address is: <BR> <BR>www.woodburyskiarea.com <BR> <BR>As of yet they have not yet started to make snow and even when they do it is just to cover the small rope tow area on the right side of the slope. There website states that they try to begin snowmaking in September if possible. Hello are the people at Killington listening??? I guess that we all have to wait for the cold weather/money making fairy before Killington opens this year.
 
jesus, all of you need to calm down with your bashing for a while, <BR> <BR>"Hello are the people at Killington listening???" <BR> <BR>listening to what, you bitching about how they can't open, NOBODY can open, early this year because it has been UNSEASONABLY warm for the last three weeks. <BR> <BR>There are NO OPEN SKI AREAS in north america right now, not loveland, a-basin, or anything. <BR> <BR>It has nothing to do with money this year, maybe it will in the future. But right now it has been TOO WARM to make snow, unless you are tenney, but I wouldn't say they've been entirely "successful" with their little experiment. <BR> <BR>So STOP WHINING and being HYPOCRITICAL. If you find a cheap way to make snow when it is 38-70 degrees out, like its been for weeks, sell it, until then, all you people on this board that are complaining about killington not opening earlier should go out and find a way, because they can't open until its cold!!!
 
If you read the all the threads on the subject, I think we mentioned very often the fact that weather is not helping a lot this year and that it was may be a little bit exagerated to open 2-3 days, to reclose, in early october, in the early 90s, cause they brought big expectations to the skiers. <BR> <BR>But the major point is probably the fact that <B>all</B> the ski areas now don't want to open before to be top to bottom with a "good choice of trails". We don't care of the fu**in choice of trails and the T2B skiing, we just want to ski at all. We just want to have 1 ski area to ski early (not necessary to be on oct 1 neither). More than 1 place is not necessary and we're even ready to drive 3-4 hours to get there (10h for Jonny). If people were not so much desesperated after years without october skiing, there would be a real market for this, very probably. I can tell you that looking all the skiers & boarders skiing on the little patches of snow at St-Sauveur on august 30, there is a real market at least here and I'm sure this kind of event would have the same effect in New England. <BR> <BR>We shouldn't talk of Killington anyway, cause with the removal of the Cascade's double, it's now just too much complicated to offer early season skiing there. Another ski area should take this market that could certainly be quite lucrative, if wisely managed. Many mountains received a big lot of snow in the last days. Tremblant could be open since early october without problem, with the top of the north side and knowing Tremblant, it's 100% sure that it would have been profitable for them. <BR> <BR>May be we should stop to "talk badly" of Killington and ASC, but a true fact remains, there is market that could be developped in the northeast and it is not done, which is extremely frustrating for the dedicated skiers.
 
In the last few days we just saw the most amazing pictures of snow falls at 38F-70F temp. (approx. 3c-21c). 21c??? Here in Downtown Ottawa, I can't remember the last time the temps were even close to 21c???? <BR> <BR>Sorry for being sacastic, but that what happens when I don't take my medication!!!! <BR> <BR>I agree that it doesn't make sense to blow crazy amount of snow in October like it might have been done in the past. Although there were some above normal high temps for a week (Indian Summer), most of the other times prior and after has been at least 5c less than normal high in Ottawa. If this were 10-15yrs ago, Killington would have opened and then shut down once the snow melted. <BR> <BR>I think I will start a campaign: "CUT DOWN THE GONDY AND BRING BACK THE OLD DOUBLE". <BR> <BR>Yes, I know this will never happened!!!
 
hey anonymous, 1) right now for the time being i am not going to dispute your claim of the alleged warm temps being the main factor in not opening... i know it may be a factor... i'm gonna get back to you on tthat.. i am going to conceed that there have been " periods of warm weather... i am not ready to conceed that is has been so warm,and the periods so sustained as to definitively prohibit them from making snow and opening... i will get back to you are some digging around on hte weather sites for historical data from the " good old days " of the early to late october openings and see if the facts back up your claim...2) a basin and loveland not spinning lifts have nothing to do with killington 3) the small issue may be a specific day opening, but if you have been paying attention to the discussion as a whole, the gripe is the general trend towards later openings (to allow 1) top to bottom and 2) more trail selection for the novice, non season pass full price daily ticket PAYING skier ) , regardless of the weather... this is the main issue being " whined " about...if you are actually going to dispute this, then we can safely assume that you are on the payroll at a.s.c, WHICH DOESN'T MAKE YOU A BAD GUY, it just skewers your credibilty , if it is the case... hence the anonymous post...like i said , let me get back to you with some facts from some weather channels before i wholeheartedly dispute your "analysis"
 
Anonymous: <BR> <BR>There have been plenty of chances for Killington to open in the last 2 weeks. According to the weather records at http://www.accuweather.com, the temperature records for rutland(which are taken in <BR>Lebanon NH at 570' elevation) have shown temperatures at or well below freezing for 13 out of the last 25 days of October. It is a matter of money that K-mart is not opened and has not opened at all for the month of October!!!! I find it pitifull especially skiing on October 1st 10 years ago this month with a very small window of cold weather at that time. In fact the snow was melting on the trail by the minute, but who cared it was still skiing. The essence of Killington's view of early season skiing has done a complete about face.
 
By the way: <BR> <BR>Temperature departure from normal for the Killington region for this month so far has been -3.7 which is alot as weather standards are concerned. The only reason that I can find for no other resorts to open in the east is because Killington did not try to open or publicise the fact as they did in advance of opening last year. The dominant weather pattern this year has been for the jet stream to form a ridge in the west and a trough in the eastern U.S causing the very warm conditions in the west and keepimg it cold in the east. For me it is more a matter of regional prestige for a local resort in the east to be opened (even if for only a few days) before others in the west. This weather pattern gave Killington the chance to be opened (or any other resort in the east that choose to do so) before A-basin or Loveland. Pure and simple, Killington is sitting on its a$$!!!!
 
i don't know anonymous, i'm still not done with my data compiling for average temps for historical october for k region ,but my man kevin s. seems to be off to a pretty good start in shooting down your theory of money having nothing to do with k not spinning a lift yet...u might want to rethink calling us a bunch of whiners there chief.... hey frankie... what was the date and post title for the chart of k's opening days that you put up in the last month or so?
 
I agree with most everyone on the board, Killington hasn't open because of the money. They could have opened the ski area on oct. 3rd. There is just nothing in it for them except the occasional 3 sec. news clip. They would probably lose money in the first month and a half of opperation and it is not worth it for them to open just for 250 people on the week days and 1000 on the weekends. <BR> <BR>A few years ago killington would have opened regarless of the money just because they new they would make the money back during the prime season. They have just gotten overly greedy in the past few years and dont even want to open early or stay open in the spring. <BR>Porter
 
Last 7 Days 63° 27° 0.12 <BR>Month to Date 75° 27° 1.16 <BR> <BR>Monthly Avg. 60° 36° 3.21 <BR> <BR>you guys are so pathetic, keep "shooting down my theory", if it gets your rocks off <BR> <BR>the average high has been 75 DEGREES this month, nobody in their right mind will blow snow when it gets this warm during the day. Sure, it is getting an average of 27 degrees overnight, as a low, but due to the high daytime temperatures this low was achieved later in the night than normal, which means, less time for snowmaking, and even with that little time, with an average high of 75, any snow you blew would melt during the day, don't believe me, ask tenney!
 
Joe : here is your stats ! <BR>http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/messages/2508/2639.html?1059583711 <BR> <BR>Salida : there is a problem if a mountain is not able to make profit with some weeks with 250 persons during weeks and 1000 on the weekends. (at least to profit of the fact they're recognized to always offer early skiing) If they try to offer us disneyland (like would say Patrick) while we just want to ski, they have a big marketing problem. Anyway, <B>Killington is not the right mountain to open early anymore</B> and another mountain should take its place.
 
Better link : <BR> <BR><A HREF="http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/messages/2508/2639.html?1059583711" TARGET="_top">http://www.firsttracksonline.com/discus2/messages/2508/2639.html?1059583711</A> <BR> <BR>Anonymous : wow... if the day weather average of the last month is 75 degrees at Killington, my name is Bode Miller (or Jonny Moseley, for Joegm). May be the last week of september was in the 100 degrees ??, but since the beginning of october, it probably never get above 75 degrees on the mountain. Also, as Kevin said, the temperature for Killington is not taken on the mountain, but somewhere on a low elevation, where the temp can be 20 degrees over the one on the "Rime". <BR> <BR>Anyway, good thing for you if you're not gettin crazy without skiing..... we're at least a dozen here to not have this "chance". <BR> <BR>But I must admit that I appreciate to see some other points of view and I don't think those differences should be talked like a little war. You should take a nickname, IMO... even though it's just something looking like Randomuser or so, cause there is a debate to do on this point and it's always more interesting to see "who" is this anonymous (actually, it's easy to see, but it may not always be like that).
 
Man, it took an hour to read this thread! Let's start a "Planned Opening Days continued..." thread. <BR> <BR>Anon has some good points, but blaming the weather for Kmart not opening is off the mark. Last year Kmart opened October 25 after receiving about 6" of natural snow, and four nights of snowmaking temps. Sorry i don't remember the specific dates, highs & lows, but the last week of October 2002 was similar to this year. <BR> <BR>Heck, Mt. Washington has received nearly DOUBLE an average October snowfall. The Killington webpage teased us with a shot of their snow cover, and it looked identical to what I skied on Cannon Saturday. <BR> <BR>Weather ain't preventing the opening. I'm sure two nights with a few guns & hoses would have been enough to open Rime & East Glade with up-/down-loading on the Canyon Quad, as they did two years ago. <BR> <BR>Nobody said Killington was making a profit on those opening days in years past. It was obviously done for it's publicity value, not for the benefit of the ski-aholics like of us. [They weren't taking a bath in red ink, either, based on the numbers of skiers & riders I saw @ $35 October 25, 2002.] <BR> <BR>The snow they made at this time last year made it through a some periods of rain and daytime highs above freezing. The snow stuck right through it all, and the skiing was better every weekend I returned, until my local hill opened. <BR> <BR>It's the money, pure and simple. The marketing department decided to spend it on direct mail or TV and radio ads, instead of snowmaking in October.
 
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