Quebec & Eastern Townships skiing?????

[Admin]

I somehow missed following this topic. Dang.

Your son wants to see NYC? Fly there instead of Burlington for cheaper airfare.

Got to disagree with you here, Tony. That's a lousy time of year to be counting on more southerly ski areas, and with JetBlue flying into BTV it's not necessarily that much pricier. And it's about a 6 or 7 hour drive to get to BTV and reconnect with his planned itinerary from NYC.

As for rentals, there are a number of ski shops in BTV: The Alpine Shop, Downhill Edge, etc. Give them a call.

 

[Patrick]

Patrick's "perfect spring weather" will be for nought if half the terrain is closed for inadequate coverage. And of course sustained warm weather (which will usually include some rain) is what will cause that problem. If it's cold that will likely mean boilerplate at that time of year.

Tony, you're extremely persimistic on the prospect of the snow conditions.

Ste-Anne, Stoneham and Le Massif should be close to 100% open. The only runs that might be close are the south facing natural snow trails. The North side glade at Ste-Anne on April 23 still had 100% natural snow coverage.

Late March in Townships and Jay/Burke conditions could vary greatly. If it's pretty bad the natural snow trails (including glades) might be closed. But most major runs in these areas will have snowmaking coverage.

Here are the photos galleries from zoneski from the Quebec ski areas that you mentioned (I added Bromont and Grand Fonds). I don't necessarily find they are representative of what you can find on the mountain. Example, Sutton has HSQ with steep groomers also:

Mont Sutton

Owl's Head

Mont Orford

Bromont

Ste-Anne

Stoneham

Le Massif

Grand Fonds in the Charlevoix

 

[Tony Crocker]

admin misunderstood my recommendation. If you're going to fly to Burlington and then drive south to see NYC, it's better to fly cheaper to NYC and drive north for skiing. It's a 16 day trip; no problem spending a whole day to drive from NYC to Vermont or Quebec. I agree that skiing south of Killington/Franconia Notch will probably be closed or on its last legs by then.

My trip in 2003 (2 weeks earlier than Gpaul's) was in a slightly drier but much colder than normal season. There was already plenty of dirt on those natural south-facing runs at Ste. Anne. It was very clear that MRG and Jay were going to be seriously restricted if the warm weather/meltdown continued.

The Townships are close to and have similar weather to Vermont. Quebec City is colder and more likely to have coverage unless it's a big natural snow year like 2001 (Vermont gets more natural snow). I recommend keeping arrangements as flexible as possible. It is likely that you will spend a week in Quebec City/Charlevoix, then a week on non-ski activities. You'll get a good read on Vermont before you go so you can decide at the last minute whether to stop there or the Townships on the way to Quebec City. If the trail counts drop much in the week or two before your trip, that's a good sign you won't like what's left.

 

[Patrick]

My trip in 2003 (2 weeks earlier than Gpaul's) was in a slightly drier but much colder than normal season. There was already plenty of dirt on those natural south-facing runs at Ste. Anne. It was very clear that MRG and Jay were going to be seriously restricted if the warm weather/meltdown continued.

March 2003? :-k

Ah yes, I was in Europe for 4 weeks. \/

Gpaul, you should look at the old March/April reports here and in the archives.

Click here for Archived FTO reports

 

[Tony Crocker]

Gpaul, you should look at the old March/April reports here and in the archives.

I looked up my own archives when Gpaul first raised the possibility of this trip.

I decided to look up the past history in my season progress reports. For the past 3 seasons I have percent of terrain open at the end of March at most of Patrick's recommended areas shown below (area, 2006, 2005, 2004)
Mt. Ste. Anne 100, 100, 95
Sugarloaf 50, 100, 83
Tremblant 83, 82, 73
Sunday River (based on snowmaking) 64, 98, 79
Killington (based on snowmaking) 43, 64, 57
Sugarbush (I added this one) 50, 99, 60
Jay 70, 97, 89
Stowe 85, 90, 79

By April 10-15 [added today] the above percents were:
Mt. Ste. Anne 83, 92, 79
Sugarloaf 41, 93, 81
Tremblant 50, 53, 73
Sunday River (based on snowmaking) 23, 73, 73
Killington (based on snowmaking) 27, 41, 40
Sugarbush (I added this one) 14, 32, 50
Jay 67, 96, 88
Stowe 58, 83, 58

Subjectively I have comments that April 2004 skiing was maintained by intermittent new snow but that in 2005 and 2006 conditions deteriorated with rain and thaw.

For prior years I have just subjective comments:
2003: I was in the East March 16-22 and a 2-week heat wave started at the beginning of my trip. Mt. St. Anne's frontside mogul runs already had sketchy cover on March 20.
2002: "Most areas melted down to 50-60% open on March 9-10. Skiing was maintained by 1-3 feet of snow in late March."
2001 was the epic year in New England. Deep bases with fresh powder through the end of March. April was warm but spring skiing was good with the deep cover.
2000: "Most areas were 50-60% open at the end of March."
1999: "March was the best month, but base depths were below normal [the earlier months were poor]."
1998: "New England was devastated by the heat wave of late March. The southern areas were wiped out and the northern areas lost 4 feet of base."
1997: The spring had more new snow than normal and skiing was fairly good at northern areas that retained a base.

So in the past decade there was one good April and another couple that were OK. At least half were mostly bad. These are not odds I would bet airline tickets on. If you read closely the positive FTO reports from local easterners in April you will note that they are mostly from advanced skiers on ungroomed snow. Patrick's finale at Sugarbush is a good example. Great for him; not so good for someone like Gpaul.

 

[Patrick]

For the past 3 seasons I have percent of terrain open at the end of March (area, 2006, 2005, 2004)
Mt. Ste. Anne 100, 100, 95
Jay 70, 97, 89

By April 10-15 [added today] the above percents were:
Mt. Ste. Anne 83, 92, 79
Jay 67, 96, 88

If you read closely the positive FTO reports from local easterners in April you will note that they are mostly from advanced skiers on ungroomed snow.

I don't have a serious issue with those numbers. Like I mentioned before, yes some marginal natural snow trails might be close. If Gpaul is interested in groomers, most (if not all) have artificial snow and will be fine. How many trails at Jay are glades or under the tram that need very good snow to be open this late.

Patrick's finale at Sugarbush is a good example. Great for him; not so good for someone like Gpaul.

That was April 30th on a bad snow year. FIS was bumped up, but there were also 2 others nicely covered non-bumps options.

If you want to be fair, he should check out the April 2 and 9 reports from Whiteface (which doesn't received that much snow). The percentage was probably fairly low, but the conditions were great on the open runs.

 

[salida]

No Rain No Gain

 

[CWHappyRN]

With all this discussion about skiing and driving and flying............I hope you are planning to use a four wheel drive to get places, carry chains, etc. You are really taking your changes in those mountains with a less suitable car. Many states have no chain laws, unlike California. Never hurts to have your cell, warm sleeping gear and food and water in the event that you get stuck (just like Alaskans do). Keeping your gas tank at least half full is a method in upstate NY for not getting your car stuck because of frozen pipes, etc. along with the additives. I had very verbal neighbors on survival tips out there when I lived in upstate for a contract or two of work. Heck, I just skied out my door, easy! Great cross country! And, if you like the rigor of cross country there is a great place in NH called Jacksons. Lots of places to lodge, get bonfires, etc., nice diggins, not the usual camping along the way. Inns at intervals of the miles along the way!

I am in favor of skiing anywhere, anytime, anyway you can. Not very divisive when it comes to skiing! I love Eastern Skiing and grew up on Western U.S. skiing. I like the differences. I like it all!

 

[Admin]

I agree with CWHappyRN on all but the chains, which IMHO are wholly unnecessary in the NE. Heck, I think that they're wholly unnecessary here or in CA 95% of the time that they're required...but I've seen Californians driving in the snow in both places. :wink:

 

[Patrick]

I hope you are planning to use a four wheel drive to get places, carry chains, etc.

Chains? The only chains I've ever seen in Quebec and in the East are on snowplows. Four wheel drive are okay (but not really needed) as long as they aren't SUVs. Beware some Canadians dislike them with a passion. Quebecers are also I very passionate people. (I'm kidding, sort of)

You are really taking your changes in those mountains with a less suitable car. Never hurts to have your cell, warm sleeping gear and food and water in the event that you get stuck (just like Alaskans do). Keeping your gas tank at least half full is a method in upstate NY for not getting your car stuck because of frozen pipes, etc. along with the additives.

All the road I have indicated in this itinerary are well travelled and not much mountain driving. My small Mazda gets me where I want to go. Cellphones are also again my religion. :lol: Frozen pipes in late March/early April? I know that Quebec has a reputation of being cold, but it's not Siberia. I've never had my car not start in the morning, regardless of the temperature.

I like the differences. I like it all!

I entirely agree with this statement. :wink:

 

[salida]

Quebec rocks, I agree with Patrick and I'm not even from Canada! I'd personally rather ski in Quebec than many other places. I like the food, the culture, and the fact that it seems like quebecois sleep later than any other group of people I know, leaving the mountain empty until 10 am or later!!

Porter

 

[Jonny D]

I like the food, the culture...

Poutine and the Joie de Vivre, what more could you want 8)

 

[Admin]

I like the food, the culture...

Poutine and the Joie de Vivre, what more could you want 8)

Mmmm...poutine - a cholesterol festival in a bowl. Yum!

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Mmmm...poutine - a cholesterol festival in a bowl. Yum!

BTW, there's a nice piece in the printed Jay Peak brochure about poutine. Personally, the stuff makes me ill.

If this trip is purely about skiing, then yes, Tony is correct about directing him to more conducive climes at that time of year. But the whole New England architecture/French-Canadian sense of place thing you get in the Townships and Charlevoix is part of the trade. I usually come back from SLC happy about the skiing part, but the rest of it -- breakfasts at Denny's, dinners at Red Lobster, accommodations at a chain hotel in the middle of a strip mall, rush hour traffic on I-15, big brown cloud overhead -- kinda leaves a black hole in my memory.

 

[CWHappyRN]

I agree with CWHappyRN on all but the chains, which IMHO are wholly unnecessary in the NE. Heck, I think that they're wholly unnecessary here or in CA 95% of the time that they're required...but I've seen Californians driving in the snow in both places. :wink:

Well, I think you have to be aware that in California, they won't let you in, police stop everyone in a line,unless you have chains and or 4WD, rarely the 4WD must have chains on. They will not allow salt, just cinder block. They don't plow as well as out East. In the East, they do not permit chains, it is against the law. In California, you must have chains on or get huge fines. They don't use salt, so.....! Environmentalists! They get a few inches in Big Bear and I have to leave work with chains on. It is not something that happened in upstate NY. They got a few inches and I had fun shoveling my way out, then just drove off a bir more slowly. No problem. Plows everywhere! Not here. They don't have plowers in abundance like that. They don't know how to drive in snow and ice too well, jam on brakes, etc. The chains help them out. Most are flat landers that come up rarely! Carol

 

[jasoncapecod]

Poutine and the Joie de Vivre, what more could you want

is that the concoction with fries gravy and cheese curds?

 

[salida]

Poutine and the Joie de Vivre, what more could you want

is that the concoction with fries gravy and cheese curds?

It is indeed!

 

[Jonny D]

Poutine and the Joie de Vivre, what more could you want

is that the concoction with fries gravy and cheese curds?

My arteries are congealing in delight at the thought !

 

[Tony Crocker]

Places that get a lot of snow are prepared to handle it. I was quite impressed with the plowing done at Mammoth last January after the 95 inches in 31 hours. The storm stopped ~10PM and I arrived ~6AM and it was all packed powder on the roads.

SoCal is another story. The sides of the road at Big Bear look like a demolition derby after one of their infrequent dumps.

In the East people have snow at home as well as where they ski so they get snow tires. Most people out here who ski a lot have 4WD and all-season tires. Without 4WD or snow tires, plus most people living in places without snow (both SoCal and Bay Area), plus Sierra dumps at 2-3 inches per hour, I can understand the chain control. So would most of you after being stuck in an accident-induced gridlock between Sacramento and Tahoe for 4 hours or more.

I too enjoyed Quebec/New England cultural ambience on my 2003 trip. But I was there one week not two, and 2 weeks earlier than Gpaul's proposal. As wolfer noted in the other thread, average conditions decline rapidly by the week starting around the mid-March Ontario spring break.

 

[Patrick]

Mmmm...poutine - a cholesterol festival in a bowl. Yum!

I've never had poutine once in my life. :shock:

Quebec rocks, I agree with Patrick and I'm not even from Canada! I'd personally rather ski in Quebec than many other places.

My favorite Eastern ski areas are in the US (Stowe, the Loaf, Whiteface & MRG), but the character of the Eastern Townships areas + Quebec ones make it a different experience.

But the whole New England architecture/French-Canadian sense of place thing you get in the Townships and Charlevoix is part of the trade.

That's also one of the reason why I think it's a good trip and it's not that crazy even if it's in late March/early April.

As wolfer noted in the other thread, average conditions decline rapidly by the week starting around the mid-March Ontario spring break.

The decline rapidly is not uniform. As I stated, Quebec City areas should be great. Eastern Townships late March should be okay.

I can understand the chain control. So would most of you after being stuck in an accident-induced gridlock between Sacramento and Tahoe for 4 hours or more.

I didn't say it didn't make sense, but not in the East.

I've taken more than 5 hours for Lucky Luke and I to make back to his house from Sugarloaf during a raging snowstorm. City traffic can be pretty bad, people totally forget how to drive on snow on the first snowstorm of the year.

Funny, I was in City Court today fighting a snowremoval parking ticket I got in front of my house from December 2004. When is that snow going to start failling again. :lol: :? :roll: