Recommendation for Thurs 12/22 Southern Vt. daytrip?

[Admin]

I've spent most of my years in the NE, and only moved here a year ago. AFAIC neither East nor West are better, just different. Apples and oranges.

And this is a pretty warm place here. You'll have to hunt pretty hard to find a chilly draft in these rooms.

 

[riverc0il]

I had not been to stratton before, and one aim in my life is to check out nearly every area I can. So I hit up one or two new ones each year. I'm a wanderer and never would buy a mountain-specific condo or pass, even if I could afford it. I bore too quickly, my weakness...

glad your day was great and glad to hear you got another pin for your hat. i may echo marc and tony's points a bit, but hear out a different perspective.

a few years ago, i began much the same goal as yourself: to ski as many different areas as possible. i still retain that goal but i have decreased my urgency and no longer feel the need to get to many of the smaller areas of CT, ME, and MA. what happened? i found areas that offered precisely what i was looking for, something not available at most of the other areas i have yet to visit. that seems like a bold statement considering i have a lot of areas not yet visited, but you would be hard pressed to find any one that would argue places like balsams and dartmouth (both of which were on my to do list this year before my accident) offer even a quarter of what is availabe at places like cannon, burke, jay, mrg, magic, etc. this does not mean they are not excellent areas and not worthy, these types of areas are on my to do list. but i can't sacrifice epic days at my favorite locations for being bored at a mountain that does not excit me despite my enjoyment of trying a new area. i square away two or three days a year to try new areas regardless of size or available terrain.

i think marc has a point that you may not have found 'your' area that is so magical to you that you would rather be there than any place else. but it should be noted that folks that have passes and home mountains still ski at other places. even wanderers have homes

this post was typed with two hands! i love being able to type again!

 

[From_the_NEK]

this post was typed with two hands! i love being able to type again!

=D>

 

[Patrick]

EAST VERSUS WEST

I also have 4 areas within the 25-30 minutes range.

I'll still take my 5 hours to Mammoth. But admin proves that you can have your cake (quality) and eat it too (convenience).

Here we go again. :lol:

Sounds alot like this earlier discussion (for those who weren't around then):

http://www.firsttracksonline.com/boards ... 17&start=0

Where stuff like the following were said.

Note to river and admin: When Marc was contemplating his move west, I told him that the existence of Mammoth alone made living in L.A. better for a skier than living in Vermont. Are you convinced by now?

Not quite. No disrespect intended, but it's still a 5-hour drive each way. That's like saying that Mont-Sainte-Anne makes Boston a great place to live. I'll take my 20-minute drive up canyon any day over a 10-hour round-trip drive. I'd take my 45-minute drive from when I lived in Burlington over it, too.

Mammoth has a ton to offer, but it's still in the middle of freakin' nowhere.

I have to agree with Marc...

I would pick Vermont over LA anyday. As for big cities, I would still pick Montreal or Ottawa over LA.

AFAIC neither East nor West are better, just different. Apples and oranges

Marc is correct (I always say the same thing when comparing West vs East or even West vs Alps). This said, maybe I had too many Apples after living in the East for 40 years. :lol: :wink:

Just like Wanderers, I don't agree with Marc or Steve (River) on this one. The number one areas in term of visits in my life and the last 25 years since I started keeping stats is Tremblant at rougly 17% of my visit. That is a pretty low fidelity rate.


SKI AREA WANDERERS...

For those wondering, my ski hat now has 36 pins. Burke came last year. I had not been to stratton before, and one aim in my life is to check out nearly every area I can. So I hit up one or two new ones each year.

I don't have the kind of money or time to ski 118 areas, so I'll just have put up with wandering around this dump called the northeast.

Oh, p'shaw! (...)

The Northeast has wonderfully varied quality skiing available, from the natural-only slopes of Le Valinouët, Québec to learner hills like Sundown, CT. In between, you've got the rugged grandeur of Cannon, the winding classics at Wildcat, the steep Front Four and nearly endless backcountry options at Stowe, and the retro-funk of MRG.

Don't downplay what you have available -- it's all good. It's just a matter of finding what you like, a place where you feel comfortable and at home. Sure, discovery is fun, but so is intimate knowledge. (Geez, I sound like a relationship counselor. :roll: )

P'shaw is right!!! There's a ton of fun areas in the East. Some are bigger than others, but if you're scared of running out of places to ski, start crossing the border. 2-3 of the best areas of Quebec are easily within 30 minutes north of Jay Peak (Orford, Sutton and Owl's Head - Bromont is not bad either). Mont Ste.Anne is my favorite ski area in Eastern Canada, not far downriver there's Le Massif. If you want numbers, hit the Laurentians. Between Montreal and Tremblant there's at least 15 ski areas.

As for my countdown of areas, I believe the number for the last 25yrs is something like 75 areas (16 in Europe, 8 in the West...the rest in the East (51) and there's a few places in the 15 from the Laurentians I didn't ski.

I used to be a wanderer, too, even before creating FTO - logged 118 places and counting. However, and I mean nothing more by saying this than the words indicate, I think your sense of wanderlust comes from not finding the right place.

No necessarily Marc, I agree more with Tony on this point.

I have to disagree with that one. I'm still a wanderer (115 areas and counting) even though I found one of the best (Mammoth, #3) early on.

But living 25 minutes from #1 (Alta/Snowbird) with a season pass might make me think differently. At least for a couple of seasons. But I suspect I would still try to add a few new areas each year.

Anyway, Marc and Tony...you guys would need the type of CAT in THE HAT Hats for each of you if you were collecting ski pins. :lol:

i think marc has a point that you may not have found 'your' area that is so magical to you that you would rather be there than any place else. but it should be noted that folks that have passes and home mountains still ski at other places. even wanderers have homes

this post was typed with two hands! i love being able to type again!

Am still a Wanderer at heart (I ski more locally since my oldest daughter in a ski program), regardless if I found a magic mountain. The problem is, there's more than one. Call it poligamy (sp?) :shock: . In the East, it's start with Stowe, Sugarloaf, Whiteface, MRG, etc etc etc. probably 10 or so areas. :?

Great news about the both hands Steve... you'll be skiing before you know it. Personnally, I have only skiied 3 times, 2 of these days were in October. :?

 

[riverc0il]

Anyway, Marc and Tony...you guys would need the type of CAT in THE HAT Hats for each of you if you were collecting ski pins.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Am still a Wanderer at heart (I ski more locally since my oldest daughter in a ski program), regardless if I found a magic mountain. The problem is, there's more than one. Call it poligamy (sp?)

\/ \/ \/

Great news about the both hands Steve... you'll be skiing before you know it. Personnally, I have only skiied 3 times, 2 of these days were in October.

thanks! i am working on using the mouse now too. but i have to 'assist' my right wrist in moving between the two as i build that muscle back up. i have 10 days so far which may be part of the reason i am taking this injury so well you better have more than me by the time i am back on skis though!

 

[Tony Crocker]

The "lifetime ski areas" thread is here: http://216.250.243.13/discus2/messages/2508/2753.html .

Eastern skiers have many more small areas. From what I read here, the eastern small areas often have as much or more "character" and interest, and lack of crowds can offset smaller size. More incentive to try them, since quality is not necessarily that much lower. Lots of eastern (or former eastern, like admin) skiers with 75+ areas.

I think western skiers tend to concentrate more, especially if one or a few of the "world class" places is within drive distance. Mammoth is still 31% of my lifetime skiing, even though I'm clearly obsessive about traveling far and wide to try new places. I'll bet there are lots of SoCal skiers for whom Mammoth is way over 50%. And for admin's new SLC posse, I'll bet AltaBird combined are over 50% for some of them.

My 100+ areas is much rarer in the West than in the East I suspect.

Even I tend to "settle in" on some of the areas I like. My SoCal skiing is much more concentrated on Mt. Baldy than 20 years ago. There are small Sierra areas (Boreal, Homewood, Diamond Peak) that I have never visited because the lure of Squaw, Kirkwood, etc. is still too strong when I go to Tahoe. The combination of my personal preference and having a friend's timeshare at Iron Blosam has concentrated my Utah skiing at Snowbird over the past decade, even at the expense of Alta. The new AltaBird ticket, Collins lift and admin's preference may result in somewhat more patronage of Alta in the future.

I did make a point of trying the "best" eastern area by admin's opinion (Stowe, MRG, Jay) on my 2003 trip. I found them comparable to Mt. Baldy in terrain quality but certainly not to Mammoth or AltaBird. I think admin is being overly polite with the "AFAIC neither East nor West are better, just different. Apples and oranges" comment after his experiences of the past year. The "apples and oranges" comment is more accurate in comparing the Alps to North America IMHO.

 

[Patrick]

thanks! i am working on using the mouse now too. but i have to 'assist' my right wrist in moving between the two as i build that muscle back up. i have 10 days so far which may be part of the reason i am taking this injury so well you better have more than me by the time i am back on skis though!

I have a ski buddy who was collect ski related mishaps.

Totalled or damages a couple of cars with deer/head on collision/sign going skiing.

Numerous cracked windshields.

A couple of fractures. Foot or anxle in the woods at Jay (he caught a heavy branch under the snow). Hand hit a tree between two cliffs in the woods at Smuggs.

This last one work out the best for his skiing. My friend had just finished(?) university and was working at a Canadian Tire store (a mixte hardware and Walmart store). Anyway, he couldn't carry or lift heavy stuff because of his cast. Ended up on Employment Insurance for something like 4 weeks(?). The timing was perfect, mid-winter without a job and a season pass at Smuggs. I joined him for one day. Skiing with one poll and a hand in cast down moguls of FIS and the woods. "Pat, I'll show you were I broke my hand" He actually went back there, skiing a place were you had to jump two cliffs. He hit is hand full tilt one a tree between the two cliffs. OUCH. This guy never slowed down the whole day with only one poll and a hand in a cast, most of it in the woods. I just remember his wife asking that morning not to ski in the woods that day. :roll:

Hope this story inspire's you River. Good luck

 

[Patrick]

Eastern skiers have many more small areas. From what I read here, the eastern small areas often have as much or more "character" and interest, and lack of crowds can offset smaller size. More incentive to try them, since quality is not necessarily that much lower. Lots of eastern (or former eastern, like admin) skiers with 75+ areas.

The main reason why there's so many ski areas in the East is both history and geographic. I remember working on a paper on the distribution of ski areas in Quebec while I was at university (had to choose an industry). The concentration is almost uniquely based on population and access. Mountains aren't a important factor. Many ski areas in Quebec are in the Laurentians which used to along the main train line to the North (then important highway thru the region). Mountains aren't much smaller than in the Eastern Township (Appalachians Range), however access was a issue prior to the sixties.

Lower Quebec's biggest mountains can be found in the Charlevoix region and the Gaspe peninsula, however there are just one hand full of ski areas in that part of the province (the only big one being Le Massif).

Snow is less of an issue for the macro-location of ski areas.

Just 20 years ago, Quebec had over 100 ski areas, I believe that number is under 70 now. Many small towns had tows and lifts for skiing dating back to the 30s and 40s, a few of them actually because small ski areas. I believe the same logic would apply to New England. There was at least 5-6 distinct place someone could alpin ski in the island of Montreal back when I was a kid. The city Ottawa had one. There were even ski jumps in Montreal and Ottawa back in the 30s.

I think admin is being overly polite with the "AFAIC neither East nor West are better, just different. Apples and oranges" comment after his experiences of the past year. The "apples and oranges" comment is more accurate in comparing the Alps to North America IMHO.

Personnally I can't choose between the best in the East and the West. The character is so different. I guess you have to have ski here part of your life. This doesn't mean I'm not ready for a change of diet after 40 years of mostely eating Apples.

 

[riverc0il]

Hope this story inspire's you River. Good luck

stupidity never inspires me :lol: i will get there when i get there and be happy about it.

 

[Anthony]

I guess I will add my 2 cents worth on this one as I am like Patrick now skiing for 40 years at age 44 ,having traveled all over the North East skiing almost every hill ( except Burke can?t tell you why ) . Started out skiing glades in the Laurentians before they even called them that, this was with leather boots with laces and locked down bindings. Still find skiing the north east and adventure even after all this years as you can always find good stuff to ski. Been out west and Europe once but still like the east for the quite forest trails away from the crowds. The only thing I don?t like about the east is the commercialization and over grooming . Having said that there are still lots of eastern adventures out there.