SLC crowd avoidance after Christmas

[johnnash]

We're headed to SLC tomorrow for our 3rd annual after-Christmas ski trip. I know this isn't the ideal time, but, hey, we're slaves of the school schedule. The last 2 years, we haven't hit any huge crowds, with litle time spent in liftlines, except for Park City and the Canyons. But it seems to me that there's less open terrain than in previous years, so I'm wondering if we should plan a bit better. In particular, I wonder if we should be thinking outside the CCs and PCs and look at Snowbasin and PowMow. We hit SB once and had a bad day (alternating between whiteouts and drizzle, with Strawberry closed), but I'd be willing to give it another try. I notice that PowMow hasn't been having a great year until recent days, but seems to have gotten a couple of nice dumps. Does anyone have any recent experience at SB or PowMow, or educated guesses about current conditions there? We're not looking for backcountry or super-steeps, but mainly nice blues with a few blacks and a park for our boarder son, and especially minimal lines. Is the territory off the new Milli lift at Brighton in good shape? That area always seemed to be uncrowded. Our son would really like to go back to Park City, and I'm wondering if there are some areas there less crowded than others.

We'd welcome any other suggestions for crowd avoidance.

Thanks very much!

 

[Marc_C]

But it seems to me that there's less open terrain than in previous years,...

We've had about 5 feet in the past week in the Cottonwoods, with 3 more storms on tap. We're almost at 100% open for what is typical at this time of year* in the 4 CC resorts.

As far as crowd avoidance, you've already figured it out - Snowbasin and Powder Mtn. I'd still avoid the Park City group at the moment - snow quality and quantity are still less than the Cottonwoods and PC is never un-crowded during xmas.

As a random data point: I have friends who live in Park City - Jeremy Ranch specifically (across the interstate from Kimball Jct.); they can see The Canyons from their living room window and hear the avi control bombs each morning. Their season passes are at....Alta/Snowbird.

[*: meaning things like Devil's Castle at Alta and certain lines in the Cirque and the Gad Chutes at Snowbird are still closed, but it's rare that any of that opens in December.]

 

[Tony Crocker]

Last year was no banner season in Utah either. Season snowfall is 75-85% of normal this year vs. 80-90% last year at this time. Last year was consistently below average in early season while this year was bone dry in November and above average so far in December. Thus percents of terrain open are fairly similar and the snow might be a bit fresher this year. In both years Snowbasin/Powder Mt. have lagged the other areas relative to normal.

So I would presume that Brighton/Solitude would have the best combination of snow and reasonable crowds. Due to the similarity to last year, whatever worked best then is likely to work best now. I would give Snowbasin another look if someone can verify conditions there. Powder Mt. is probably not a good idea under current conditions.

I commented after schubwa's report about Mt. Bachelor's virtues as a "zoo week" destination. Terrain-wise Bachelor is an excellent fit for johnnash & family, something to consider in future years. From my observation Snowbird is not a good terrain fit, and it's not exactly deserted during Christmas week.

 

[Admin]

First-hand reports from Snowbasin are upbeat -- Bob Dangerous opted to go there (again) today instead of LCC. Marc_C's advice is good, as is the recommendation to investigate Solitude. And despite Mr. Crocker's statistical analysis, Alta is skiing exceptionally well right now, as today's separate posting indicates.

 

[mbaydala]

Personally I think some of you guys are nuts. I've skied Solitude, Alta, Park City and Deer Valley all in the last week and the only place I've damaged my skis so far this year was at Alta and Solitude. Honestly I love Alta and Solitude but those resorts just have so many more rocks, obviously they do have more snow then the PC resorts but the PC resorts have far less rocks. Personally I think PC is sking awesome right now, but please everyone stay away because I'd love for things to be less crowded. Oh and there was no one at PC today. I'll post some pictures as well.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I never said anything was wrong with Alta. After admin's report from Friday that would be ridiculous. But johnnash's son is a boarder, so Alta was not germane to his question. Park City and the Canyons are good fits for them terrain wise, but he complained of their crowds last Christmas week, and I would expect crowd patterns to be similar this year.

 

[mbaydala]

Tony this was the line I was responding to,

"I would avoid the Park City group in a slow starting season for quite awhile unless you're mainly interested in skiing groomers."

You've made this statement a couple of times this year. Even though I do not enjoy the crowds over here the snow is actually great right now and I just thought everyone should know it.

I'll be headed up to Powder Mountain on Saturday and i'll be sure to let you all know how it is up there.

Hope you all had a great holiday! Here is a picture of a Bald Eagle that was flying just above me on West Face at Park City yesterday.

 

[Marc_C]

Tony this was the line I was responding to,

"I would avoid the Park City group in a slow starting season for quite awhile unless you're mainly interested in skiing groomers."

You've made this statement a couple of times this year. Even though I do not enjoy the crowds over here the snow is actually great right now and I just thought everyone should know it.

With the recent storms, and another 1 - 2 feet tonight, more on Friday, and more again on Sunday, every resort is either at or very close to 100% open. This is one of those times where it makes sense to ignore the statistics and averages and just rely on the reports from the ground. Yesterday Snowbasin reported 16" of new - Bobby D said he was in waist deep untracked of 5% fluff that was easily accessible (without a hike) off the John Paul Quad. So to wring your hands because we're "only" 85% of "season normal snowfall" is a pointless exercise, as is worrying that "Snowbasin gets less snowfall on average than the Cottonwoods" or that Park City isn't supposed to be good until February in a slow starting season.

 

[mbaydala]

With the recent storms, and another 1 - 2 feet tonight, more on Friday, and more again on Sunday, every resort is either at or very close to 100% open

With regards to the weather tonight I can honestly say I don't see Park City mountain getting more then 6 or so inches. I studied meteorology for a couple of years and college so I'm by no means a meteorologist but I just don't see the moisture associated with this storm. Obviously if the lake gets going to night the Cottonwoods could get quite a bit of snow but I'm guessing more along the lines of a foot. I'm thinking PC- 3-6 at best. Once again though this is only my guess, lets see if I'm right?

This just seems really optomistic lets hope I'm wrong!!!!

...HEAVY SNOW WARNING IN EFFECT FROM 9 AM THIS MORNING TO 11 AM
MST THURSDAY..

THE NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE IN SALT LAKE CITY HAS ISSUED A HEAVY
SNOW WARNING...WHICH IS IN EFFECT FROM 9 AM THIS MORNING TO 11 AM
MST THURSDAY. THE WINTER STORM WATCH IS NO LONGER IN EFFECT.

THIS HEAVY SNOW WARING IS FOR THE WASATCH MOUNTAINS SOUTH OF
I-80. STORM TOTAL ACCUMULATIONS OF 1 TO 2 FEET CAN BE EXPECTED BY
LATE THURSDAY MORNING. LOCALLY HIGHER AMOUNTS ARE
POSSIBLE...PARTICULARLY IN AREAS FAVORED IN NORTHWEST FLOW.

SNOW...HEAVY AT TIMES...WILL DEVELOP THIS MORNING ACROSS THE
SOUTHERN WASATCH RANGE AS A COLD FRONT PUSHES THROUGH THE AREA.
THIS SNOW...HEAVY AT TIMES...WILL CONTINUE THIS AFTERNOON AND
THROUGHOUT MUCH OF THE NIGHT...BEFORE TAPERING OFF THURSDAY
MORNING.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I agree that for specific short term advice current reports are what we want.

Averaging Deer Valley, Park City and The Canyons, the percent of trails open was 41% on Dec. 16 and 58% on Dec. 21. In that situation, I would say the advice "avoid the Park City group in a slow starting season for quite awhile unless you're mainly interested in skiing groomers" is accurate. When trail counts are only around half, ungroomed bowl and tree skiing is likely even more restricted.

The Park City group trail percents open (and Snowbasin's) are up to 90% today. Utah has had a strong December so the season is now up to 80-90% of normal, similar to last year. It seems to me that the ~2 feet of snow since late last week has made the difference in opening up much of the advanced terrain around Park City.

 

[Admin]

It seems that you're on to something, mbaydala - KSL has now bcked down from their earlier predictions, now anticipating up to a foot in the mountains after the lake effect finishes.

 

[mbaydala]

Once again I think the NWS has completely wish casted instead of forecasted. Yesterday when the put out a Winter Storm Watch for the Valleys for up to a foot of snow I thought they were on drugs! With each one of these storms the models have indicated the next storm would be the stronger and hence colder storm. Well they have the colder part right but these storms just aren’t producing as much moisture as the models advertise. Once again the latest GFS model shows that the storm on the 29-31 looking to be much wetter than this one but I’m not buying it because they have been about 10 inches off on each of the last 4 storms. It will be interesting to see how this all pans out but 2-4 feet we were expecting by the end of the weekend looks like it will be more like 5-10 inches in the Park City area. Once again that is only my take on things and remember I don't get paid for it but lets just hope I’m wrong.

 

[tirolerpeter]

My Son, Daughter, her boyfriend, and I went up to Snowbird today (12/26). It was gray, cold, blowing snow, and very well covered. We didn't go near the Tram, but skied the Gad lifts, the Peruvian lift, and went through the tunnel into Mineral Basin where we skied both lifts a number of times. There was plenty of snow. All the trails were well covered, and we were able to take some tree shots, and wander all over the open terrain. Never got close to a rock. BTW, there were no lift lines, and we sometimes didn't encounter a single skier in runs from top to bottom of Mineral Basin.

 

[mbaydala]

Awesome, that sounds great! Now lets just hope this storm actually drops some snow. Its 2 am and there aren't snow flakes within 60 miles of the Cottonwoods let alone Park City and I don't see anything coming either.

I must say i truely wonder who is working at the NWS this week. At least they reduced their snow totals for tonight but some how they managed to still forecast 8-16 inches of snow through tomorrow morning. FLAT OUT NUTS.

 

[hayduke]

fwiw, the snow figures for this year look better than 2007 and not bad as far as the average graph either<http>

 

[hayduke]

sorry that link didnt post. ill try again



http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/cgibin/wyg ... D&state=UT

 

[Admin]

Honestly, we never had a liftline longer than 30 seconds at either Snowbird or Alta today, and that includes: Collins, Wildcat, Sugarloaf, Supreme, Peruvian, Gadzoom, and Gad 2. Apparently they're all on the Wasatch Back, for The Kid reports that PCMR yesterday was a zoo.