Snow Summit, Dec. 18, 2013

[Tony Crocker]

My first 3 ski seasons of retirement opened with a flourish. This one was a reality check. This was the 18th season I've started at Snow Summit, and close to my median opening day of Dec. 16.

I normally wait for at least one of the two steeper chairs 6 and 10 to open, but snowmaking stalled after Saturday with warm weather all week. So instead of waiting for improvement, I decided to get up there before conditions get worse with weekend crowds. We also had a Ski Dazzle 2-for-1 coupon, which of course is no good from Dec. 21 to Jan. 5.

We had a leisurely arrival at 9:45AM and the upper parking lot was only 2/3 full. The parking lot attendant claimed he had snowboarded the Wall the previous day.

We're not sure what he had been smoking.

Timber Ridge on Chair 7 was the last run that opened before it became too warm to make snow.

Snow cover had the occasional thin spot, unusual at Snow Summit. There was no overnight freeze but it skied well all morning , especially with the light crowd. Here's Liz on Log Chute at noon.

Summit Run is the easiest top to bottom and a zoo on weekends.

Mid mountain we usually skied Miracle Mile at looker's left here.

Even San Gorgonio is sketchy in the lean start to California's season.

Westridge was open top to bottom with park features. They barely got the run covered last Saturday before the warmup and thus could not build many jumps. So there were lots of tables.

Liz found this corrugated pipe interesting (for pictures, not participation).

The sun came out just before 1PM and the flatter spots started to stick some, so we went in for lunch at 1:30. By 2:30 the trees were shading most runs from the low December sun so skiing improved. They set up some gates on Ego Trip which we poached for a couple of runs.

19,800 vertical for opening day. It helped a lot that Garry Klassen had freshly tuned my K2 Recon skis.

My issues with uploading pics were due to FTO's size restrictions, for which I got no warning message. It finally dawned on me after trying multiple computers, including Liz' Mac.

 

[jojo_obrien]

Thanks for the TR Tony.........

Such fond memories of SS..........when I was a kid skiing in the 80's, it was a truly special treat when dad would take us the "extra mile" past Snow Valley up to Big Bear.......I remember how much more intense and bigger it seemed at the base compared to Snow Valley as a kid. Along with "hot doggers" zipping past us in Toyota 4x4's wearing ungodly amounts of neon ............ahhhh the 80's.......

I still get stoked to see little kids on the hill regardless of where I ski.....but there is something to be said about skiing California -- riding like cattle in the back of a truck from the parking lot to the one ski lift and rope tow (more Grass Valley) and the Snow Valleys (#1 double chair that stopped 4x from top to base (800 vertical feet) and upwards of 20 minutes to get to the top ; )

Maybe it was me, but it SURE seemed like we got a helluva lot more snow back then........ :stir:

Curious to know if Admin has ever skiied Big Bear........

 

[Tony Crocker]

Maybe it was me, but it SURE seemed like we got a helluva lot more snow back then........ :stir:

75-76 63
76-77 87
77-78 192
78-79 237
79-80 102
80-81 63
81-82 162
82-83 264
83-84 12
84-85 132
85-86 111
86-87 76
87-88 87
88-89 105
89-90 111
90-91 153
91-92 237
92-93 219
93-94 114
94-95 172
95-96 77
96-97 79
97-98 267
98-99 99
99-00 112
00-01 210
01-02 39
02-03 75
03-04 100
04-05 225
05-06 89
06-07 43
07-08 111
08-09 138
09-10 162
10-11 156
11-12 113
12-13 70
The above is an average from ski reports, probably close to the mark for Mt. High. Normally Big Bear gets about 1/3 less and Baldy/Waterman about 1/3 more (~350 in the 2 big El Nino years). The last 2 seasons have been anomalous, with Baldy/Waterman getting less than Big Bear in 2011-12 (lots of "inside slider storms") and about the same last year.

http://50.87.144.177/~bestsnow/scalhist.htm
You must not remember 1983-84 and 1985-86, by far the worst seasons of SoCal skiing. The former season had rain in Nov/Dec and was bone dry Jan-Mar. The latter season had almost average snow but several rain events including a whole week in mid-February that washed out nearly everything.

The chart referenced above shows recent low snow years not as bad as during the 70's and '80's. No question in my mind that is due to snowmaking advances, particularly with Snow Summit's world class system. Baldy has functional snowmaking now, but its capacity is not nearly enough for me to consider going there without the same amount of natural snow I would have wanted 30 years ago.

 

[Admin]

Curious to know if Admin has ever skiied Big Bear........

I have not, although there's an outside chance (way outside, really) that I will next month.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk

 

[jojo_obrien]

I remember the drought years of the 80's..........the shot of the Wall in Dec 2013 looks ..........like the 80's...............................

nothing like ripping moguls on the Wall with the speakers turned up in the spring time , nobody up, lapping that old ass double chair..........

anyone recall the hot tub back in Slide Peak in the 80's? lapping that double chair (10) or 11? smog sunsets behind Mt Baldy/San Antonio , watching the line of cars snaking back from BIg Bear back to LA? ahh..........the good life / mom & pop resorts/ less corporate influence/marketing........................ :stir:

 

[Tony Crocker]

I have not skied Snow Valley since November 1985 and not skied Slide Peak since 1982. No moguls on the Wall any more; moguls are an endangered species at Snow Summit. Those speakers on the Wall (when open) are playing that same music, because it's probably the same skiers there, now 30 years older. :lol: When Snow Summit bought Bear Mt. in 2002, they concentrated the park scene at Bear. So that's where the youth scene of 90+% snowboarders is now.

Summit still has some park, notably the whole 1200 vertical of Westridge. The east side of Snow Summit (chairs 6, 7 and 10) is probably the only sector in Big Bear with as many skiers as boarders.

Nationally it has been noted by Kottke and elsewhere that snowboarding's fraction of ski area visits has been declining for about 5 years. I wonder whether/if this trend will come to SoCal.

 

[jojo_obrien]

speaking of moguls.....reminds me of the days when moguls could grow to the size of a volkswagon bus (the ladder @ snow valley ) ....

do you know what year they opened Geronimo at Bear Mtn / Goldmine Tony?

 

[jkamien]

Curious to know if Admin has ever skiied Big Bear........

I have not, although there's an outside chance (way outside, really) that I will next month.

Admin- IMNSHO, only place for you in SoCal is Mt. Baldy. All else is rather boring. However, Baldy is actually world class and tons of fun. Even with thin snow. But if the parking lot runs are open, they have a ton of challenging terrain.

 

[SoCal Rider]

Curious to know if Admin has ever skiied Big Bear........

I have not, although there's an outside chance (way outside, really) that I will next month.

Admin- IMNSHO, only place for you in SoCal is Mt. Baldy. All else is rather boring. However, Baldy is actually world class and tons of fun. Even with thin snow. But if the parking lot runs are open, they have a ton of challenging terrain.

Ha, probably true, but don't make us SoCalers laugh. Well, go ahead, I guess. If Admin was out here for a few days and was really jonesin' to add to his "skied there" list, then maybe. But it won't be to see if his knuckles can go pale. After riding Baldy just once each of the past two seasons, I gave up on the rather quaint idea of having a yearly pass there. Sometimes, it's amazing to think that those runs are ever open. I guess it could be worse. There are probably people pining to use Mt. Waterman passes every season.

 

[Tony Crocker]

No question admin would appreciate Baldy. But the reality is that if he's here on unrelated business on a random Jan-Mar date and has 1 ski day, the odds of it being worth his time at Baldy are about 30%. If the date is late February/early March, maybe 40%. Under 20% before late January.

My formative ski season 1978-79 was the overall best season in SoCal history to my knowledge. There was not as much natural snow as during the big El Ninos, but it was consistently cold with no rain and enough of the snow came in Nov/Dec to get everything open by Christmas. So the resorts made lots of $$$ that year and improvements ensued that summer.
1) Snow Summit built the snowmaking pipe into the lake, expanded snowmaking to the entire mountain and built chairs 6 and 7.
2) Goldmine opened Silver Mt. I have records of skiing Silver in 1980.
3) Snow Valley opened Slide Peak, which I skied in 1980 and 1982.
4) Mt. High expanded its snowmaking coverage and eventually bought Holiday Hill (now MH East) in 1981.

Goldmine was sold to SKI Ltd (Killington owners before Les Otten) in 1988. They probably built Bear Peak/Geronimo immediately, as my records show me skiing Geronimo in 1989 but not in 1987. SKI Ltd also built a snowmaking pipe into the lake, but the snowmaking quality at Bear under SKI Ltd and Booth Creek was never as good as at Snow Summit. When Snow Summit took over in 2002 the snowmaking quality became the same at both mountains.

 

[egieszl]

Chair 8, Geronimo lift and run were added when the area operated as Goldmine Ski Resort. I believe the chair was added in 1986. SKI-Ltd purchased Goldmine in 1988 and the first season of operation under their ownership was 1988-89.

Goldmine Ski Resort trail map circa 1987-88 (possibly earlier)

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Tough times when we get pix of Tony jibbing a tabletop.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I believe the chair was added in 1986.

Absolutely not. There was no Bear Peak chair when I skied there in February 1987. There was fresh powder and we were skiing off-trail between Silver and Goldmine peaks. The off-trail terrain from Bear Peak is much more extensive and we would have been there if it had existed that day.

Bear Peak chair was built either in summer 1987 or summer 1988.

 

[jojo_obrien]

Tough times when we get pix of Tony jibbing a tabletop.

 

[egieszl]

I believe the chair was added in 1986.

Absolutely not.

Tony at times you're kind of a jerk. I apologize to you or anyone else who take offense to my bluntness, but it's the truth. You're not the ONLY one who keeps extensive records (I do too) and I'm sorry, but your memory and records while generally excellent (98% of the time), aren't always 100% accurate.

I post a trail map that confirms that the chair at least existed for the 1987-88 season and you still doubt that fact in your reply.

However, since I'm in Austin at the moment and the majority of my brochures and records which would prove you wrong are in California I did some additional research online.

According to the Los Angeles Times, article dated December 28, 1986 - Chair 8, the Bear Peak Triple Chair opened at Goldmine for the 1986-1987 ski season.

"This season Goldmine is introducing Chair 8, a triple chair that offers a new high in Southern California skiing by ascending to 8,900 feet."

"The chairlift was completed two summers ago but was virtually unused last season because of a snowless winter usually too warm for snow making."

The chair was actually installed in the summer of 1985, but sat unused for the 1985-1986 season, so my recollection of it being 1986 was correct! You probably didn't ski it because the chair probably wasn't open. The ski area didn't have dependable snowmaking until SKI Ltd. took over for the 1988-1989 ski season.

 

[Admin]

It's fun when you're able to prove him wrong, isn't it?

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk

 

[egieszl]

My point isn't to prove him wrong, but his response "Absolutely not" was not well received by myself, so I guess yes it is. However, I'm not scrutinizing every thing he posts looking for errors. He has a wealth of valuable information that I appreciate.

My point was to share something that I thought he and others would find of interest and if in the process I corrected some information then so be it.

 

[Admin]

And the protagonist is conspicuously silent.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk

 

[Tony Crocker]

I post a trail map that confirms that the chair at least existed for the 1987-88 season and you still doubt that fact in your reply.

Bear Peak chair was built either in summer 1987 or summer 1988.

No contradiction there.

That late February 1987 ski day was quite memorable because the snow was unusually dry for SoCal. it was one of only 2 storms that it has snowed on the Verdugo Mts. in the 29 years I've lived just below them. With such a clear recollection I was lazy and did not bother to research the chair's construction. OF COURSE with Big Bear's meager snowfall and Goldmine's primitive snowmaking it was quite possible that the chair's construction and actual first operation could have been 2 years apart. #-o

The chair was actually installed in the summer of 1985, but sat unused for the 1985-1986 season, so my recollection of it being 1986 was correct!

During that awful season with all that rain there's no way that chair could have been used.

According to the Los Angeles Times, article dated December 28, 1986 - Chair 8, the Bear Peak Triple Chair opened at Goldmine for the 1986-1987 ski season.

"This season Goldmine is introducing Chair 8, a triple chair that offers a new high in Southern California skiing by ascending to 8,900 feet."

The chair may have been "introduced" on December 28, 1986, but there's not a chance anybody skied on it then. By my "D" rating for that weekend, not even Snow Summit was as much as half open then. Even with good snowmaking now, Bear Peak is the last terrain at either Big Bear area to open.

You probably didn't ski it because the chair probably wasn't open. The ski area didn't have dependable snowmaking until SKI Ltd. took over for the 1988-1989 ski season.

Correct on all counts. That last week of February was the first time in 1986-87 that it would have been possible to open natural snow based terrain. Since I gave the weekend a "B" grade, that means some natural snow terrain (that usually means at Baldy) was not yet open. Bear Peak pre-SKI Ltd likely falls into the same category.

Monthly snowfall in SoCal ski areas in 1986-87:
Nov 0
Dec 4 (thus the Dec. 28 operation is not possible)
Jan 21
Feb 24
Mar 24
Apr 3

Maybe Bear Peak opens on that "B" 3rd weekend in March, but given the failure to open on the late February weekend I wouldn't be so sure.

Monthly snowfall in SoCal ski areas in 1987-88:
Nov 0
Dec 33
Jan 24
Feb 6
Mar 6
Apr 18
My best guess of the first time anyone actually skied Geronimo is January 1988, 2 1/2 years after the chair was built! Even this is not sure, because there were no "A" weekends in 1987-88, meaning all SoCal terrain open. The 3 "A" weekends in January 1989 are the first time I'm certain Geronimo was skiable. No wonder Goldmine decided to bail out and sell to someone who could make snow.

Note the above snowfall figures are averaged across the SoCal ski areas. Over the long run the Big Bear areas get the least snow, typically about 2/3 of the average. Individual storms can vary, notably the "inside sliders" that produce more snow at Big Bear than in the San Gabriel Mts.

 

[Admin]

I post a trail map that confirms that the chair at least existed for the 1987-88 season and you still doubt that fact in your reply.

Bear Peak chair was built either in summer 1987 or summer 1988.

No contradiction there.

Yes there is - egieszl said "existed" and he was right, it existed - yet you maintain your dismissive tone. Why can't you simply admit that you were wrong instead of again trotting out snowfall stats that are irrelevant to the point being made?

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk