Snowbasin, UT 3/18/11

Tony Crocker":14woh2sw said:
MarcC":14woh2sw said:
Snowbasin is a damn haul in comparison.
One hour vs. half an hour. And you need to add in the time you spend cooling your heels at the foot of LCC waiting for the road to open. This argument I'm not buying at all on big storm days.

Newsflash to Crocker: none of us who live here give a rat's ass whether you buy it or not. Your opinion on what we should or should not do is completely irrelevant to our decision making process and is therefore merely an annoying buzz in the background.
 
Tony Crocker":1aes7qzr said:
There are a lot of readers/contributors on FTO (jamesdeluxe being one of them) who prefer a quieter experience at a second line area to the feeding frenzy at the marquee areas of a region.
That's absolutely true, but I'm not a strong enough skier to attempt the top-shelf terrain at Alta/Snowbird, so there's not as much reward for me to deal with LCC's occasional downsides as for others here.
 
Acidchrist":275oxskf said:
did we get up on the wrong side of the bed today??

Yeah, the one that leads to the office for meetings while it's snowing in the Cottonwoods visible from my office window. ](*,)

That, however, has nothing to do with the fact that I'm so frickin' over a southern Californian who skis 10 days per year in Utah thinking that he knows better about where to go, what to ski and when to do it than those of us who live here and ski it 70-100 days per season. Especially when he's just plain wrong (or at best ill self-informed) 90% of the time.
 
Admin":v7ndtba8 said:
Acidchrist":v7ndtba8 said:
did we get up on the wrong side of the bed today??

Yeah, the one that leads to the office for meetings while it's snowing in the Cottonwoods visible from my office window. ](*,)

That, however, has nothing to do with the fact that I'm so frickin' over a southern Californian who skis 10 days per year in Utah thinking that he knows better about where to go, what to ski and when to do it than those of us who live here and ski it 70-100 days per season. Especially when he's just plain wrong (or at best ill self-informed) 90% of the time.

But isn't the comment regarding getting to LCC vs Snowbasin on a big powder day with LCC road closures pretty on point? I mean, if you're gonna sit in your car for 30 minutes at the mouth of the canyon then craw up LCC isn't Snowbasin no less convenient to get to (i'm purposely not mentioning things like snow, terrain, etc)?
 
socal":1d99eb4c said:
But isn't the comment regarding getting to LCC vs Snowbasin on a big powder day with LCC road closures pretty on point? I mean, if you're gonna sit in your car for 30 minutes at the mouth of the canyon then craw up LCC isn't Snowbasin no less convenient to get to (i'm purposely not mentioning things like snow, terrain, etc)?

Sure it is. Timewise only, not mileage wise (ex., approx. 12 mi. vs. approx. 50 mi. for Marc_C), and only on the way up, not on the way down. Additionally I can get a lot of my morning stuff done -- eating breakfast, catching up on overnight email and news, etc. -- while sitting there.

However, as you've pointed out that's not the only consideration.
 
Admin":3qbcn87d said:
That, however, has nothing to do with the fact that I'm so frickin' over a southern Californian who skis 10 days per year in Utah thinking that he knows better about where to go, what to ski and when to do it than those of us who live here and ski it 70-100 days per season. Especially when he's just plain wrong (or at best ill self-informed) 90% of the time.

Geeez Admin :roll: , with numbers like that (10 days/year), he's definitely a better expert about Utah versus Eastern skiing (8 times lifetime?) and how Eastern Spring snow skis. His ratio of Utah experience versus local is way better than his eastern credentials. :rotfl: :stir:
 
Some of us are still upset about the land swap deal and the road and that influences our decision to patronize or not patronize Snowbasin.
 
Admin":2mk3gxld said:
A southern Californian who skis 10 days per year in Utah thinking that he knows better about where to go. ...

10 days a year! :drool:

Well, Tony just might be Southern California's most prolific Utah skier. Just sayin'.
 
SoCal Rider":3dh4xit7 said:
Admin":3dh4xit7 said:
A southern Californian who skis 10 days per year in Utah thinking that he knows better about where to go. ...

10 days a year! :drool:

Well, Tony just might be Southern California's most prolific Utah skier. Just sayin'.

I'm usually good for 5-10+. Next weekend will be 7 & 8 for me and I skipped pretty much the whole season to train for the la marathon. I think i got almost 15 days in 2008. It's just as easy or easier than driving to Mammoth.
 
Here's a :drool: for you too. I figure there are some more people with similar capabilities.

I get a trip outside SoCal about every other season. Haven't made it to the Utah.
 
up until last season i was avg. 30 to 35 days per season . last season was only ten days so far this season i sit on ten days . tonys certainly the most visited socal skier i've met of this forum to date . assuming your not to far back down wasatch blvd. in a continious snake of cars to the stopping point in traffic in lcc one could still be a couple of hours away from skiing . because the longer one sits waiting only means that where lcc road meets 9400 south at the sign backs up bad , from there it's taken me as long as two hours to get skiing . now you figure a one hour ride to snowbasin or two to really get skiing in lcc on a busy weekend or any day for that matter .
 
This whole argument is rather moot. When you factor everything in, LCC is rather overrated. Obviously they get more snow, the snow is generally high quality, and both areas have excellent terrain. But both areas are absolutely shredded within the first few opening hours after a storm. Getting fresh tracks has become a game only the local crazies can win. Since there are so many of the local crazies even winning means only a handful of quality, untracked runs on the vast majority of powder days.

Really the only thing that matters for lift-assisted powder skiing is day-trip proximity to an area with decent terrain and above average snowfall. If you have that combination you'll get a plentiful share of untracked runs over the course of a season, assuming you learn how to take advantage of a given area's snowfall patterns, terrain and crowd tendencies.

My guess is the local Snowbasin skier will get approximately as many high-quality, untracked runs as anybody favoring LCC, given the much smaller crowds (who also are not so hell-bent on shredding every line available). The SB local will certainly get enough untracked to satisfy all but the most extreme powder-hounds. Same goes for Bachelor, Tahoe, Jackson Hole, etc. Each area has it's own disadvantages/advantages, but in the end I think they tend to more-or-less weigh out for a dedicated local.

I've pretty much come to the conclusion that if you really want to experience the pure bliss of untracked snow then commit to a couple snowcat/heli trips per season (or become a backcountry skier). That way you nearly guarantee the conditions we all crave, with a level of freedom that the ski areas can rarely provide. The rest of the days you get at your local resort or on destination trips are simply gravy...
 
From 1996-2006 I skied a nearly consistent 4 days/season in Utah as an Iron Blosam guest. The past 4 seasons have been 8, 9, 14 and 12 days. This year is 10 days so far but I have at least 2 more coming.

I agree with most of rsmith's comments. I started the cat/heli route in 1997 because that is the easiest way to get fresh tracks, especially for the less experienced. Resort powder demands more expertise in terms of local knowledge and ski ability in variable and chopped snow.

rsmith":15u4e172 said:
Each area has it's own disadvantages/advantages, but in the end I think they tend to more-or-less weigh out for a dedicated local.
I'm not so sure about that. The experiences are different. LCC's snow and terrain combination is unsurpassed. The frequency of powder days is much higher than most places, but typically you get amazing mornings followed by afternoons of chowder or lots of grunt work to get limited remaining untracked. Frequency at a place like Snowbasin is much lower, but the best days are more likely to be untracked bell to bell. The Utah locals are fortunate to have both options available. And people like admin often hit those epic LCC mornings, then go home (or to work) and let us tourists scrounge for the scraps later in the day.

The important criteria for great powder skiing are snow, terrain and low skier density, and it's almost impossible to get all 3 in the same place with any frequency. If the terrain/snow are best in a region, the powder experience tends to be similar to LCC. Certainly true at Squaw and Mammoth and probably Vail and Whistler too. Jackson also, though Jackson has an inefficient lift system like Alta before Collins went HSQ, so the competition tends to manifest itself as much in terms of liftlines (particularly the tram) as quickly tracked out snow.

I'm sure JSpin and q could tell us about numerous super low density Montana areas where powder lasts a few days after a storm. Most of these places average only ~250 inches, so short term visitors still won't get powder that often. For the combination of terrain and low density Castle Mt. is conspicuously the best I've experienced, but I know I'm very lucky to have had big powder on 3 out of 5 days there.

There are also some places with a lot of snow and low skier density because they lack the scale and/or big mountain steeps that some of the fanatic powderhounds insist upon. Wolf Creek and Targhee come to mind. These are the type of areas aspiring powder skiers should go if they don't want to shell out the $$$ for cat/heli. I'll also remind everyone of Niseko's unique (70% more than Alta) powder frequency in January/early February.
 
rsmith":3slg48fr said:
When you factor everything in, LCC is rather overrated...But both areas are absolutely shredded within the first few opening hours after a storm. Getting fresh tracks has become a game only the local crazies can win.

You just keep believing that, OK? :-"
 
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