Snowbird and Alta, UT 5/10/09 (incl. video)

To me...thats all lift served.
I'm inclined to agree with that, but 95+% of skier's would not, nor would the patrol that's not controlling/sweeping that terrain. That to me IS the definition of sidecountry, out of bounds and unpatrolled but lifts provide all or most of the access. Would Snowbird patrol have rescued anyone who was injured skiing Alta?

With regards to inbounds Snowbird, I was not the one who said:
But this past weekend it was too choppy at the bird to get any real great corn skiing
I had to do some traversing to get the best corn at Mammoth last weekend. But it was all inbounds and the access was easy enough to get nearly 50K for the weekend.

Overall last weekend was a great corn weekend in both places. When I say Mammoth is usually better in May that is mainly when the weather is less cooperative. Mammoth puts much more effort into it with grooming and salting. Sunday was warmer so they salted/groomed more during the day. We on FTO would always like it to be like last weekend, when the steep off-piste is that good. But it's not always like that, and according to you Utah locals the good corn cycles are less frequent than here. By the way, MarcC complains about that, so how did he miss a weekend this good?
 
Skidog":26j5e4au said:
Correct me if im wrong here, but I believe that in North America the only resort that tops Alta/Bird in terms of acreage is Whistler/Blackcomb.

M

Big Sky/Moonlight Basin tops Alta/Bird @ 5512 acres vs Alta/Birds 4700 acres

As of right now all 3500 acres of Mammoth is accessible (probably only bout 95% now with coverage).
Can the same be said with the current lifts open at alta/bird?
 
snowboard247":2gor5c82 said:
As of right now all 3500 acres of Mammoth is accessible (probably only bout 95% now with coverage).
Can the same be said with the current lifts open at alta/bird?

Yes, all but a few hundred of the 4,700 acres off Supreme are accessible by lift and traversing, or no more than a 5-minute hike that wouldn't be a hike during mid-winter ski season. Still 100% of all 4,700 acres with coverage.
 
yes tony markc & amy tele john porter & i skied a few runs after lunch as admin departed . mineral was fine little cloud was better still just a bit stiff in the upper gad valley early in the afternoon. mark &amy finished with an eddies snowfield out to the right of eye of the needle on the apron not quite out to blackjack marc said it was faboulous. it's not that the skiing is bad at the bird like you said traffic affects quality. gad two chair offered fine high quality cornskiing (but) when your as freaking spoiled as some on f.t.o. any track or imperfection blows the whole run.( and ofcourse i'm not spoiled much) :stir: :bs: :bs: :dead horse: :drool: :drool:
 
Admin":19il4dv7 said:
snowboard247":19il4dv7 said:
As of right now all 3500 acres of Mammoth is accessible (probably only bout 95% now with coverage).
Can the same be said with the current lifts open at alta/bird?

Yes, all but a few hundred of the 4,700 acres off Supreme are accessible by lift and traversing, or no more than a 5-minute hike that wouldn't be a hike during mid-winter ski season. Still 100% of all 4,700 acres with coverage.

so now that Alta is closed for the season, does that mean, me as a snowboarder, could go shred that terrain?

And if commit into Alta terrain isn't it a decent trek back to snowbird? (I don't know Ive never been to any Utah resorts)
 
snowboard247":60l5dr6t said:
so now that Alta is closed for the season, does that mean, me as a snowboarder, could go shred that terrain?

Yes. And you wouldn't be alone.

snowboard247":60l5dr6t said:
And if commit into Alta terrain isn't it a decent trek back to snowbird?

Admittedly, it's not on skis but it would be one long, long traverse on a snowboard from where we were on Sunday. It wouldn't be as long a traverse from, say, the Wildcat area at the far western end of the resort as Wildcat and the High Baldy terrain of Alta and Snowbird share a common ridgeline. It's the center of the three ridgelines in this photo:

Arial_of_Alta_and_Snowbird__copy.jpg


Virtually everything you can see in the middle ground of that photo is lift-assisted right now.

snowboard247":60l5dr6t said:
(I don't know Ive never been to any CO resorts)

Utah, my friend...Utah.
 
when your as freaking spoiled as some on f.t.o. any track or imperfection blows the whole run.(and ofcourse i'm not spoiled much)
Another point where I seem to share BobbyD's philosophy of skiing, though unfortunately not his ability.

With regard to skiable acreage, that works when you're comparing apples to apples. Steeper areas will give you more vertical variety within the same acreage as flatter areas. Unless the steeps have a lot of unskiable cliffs. Big Sky/Moonlight is Exhibit B of acreage overstating ski variety (I think Heavenly is Exhibit A). The lower mountain is quite flat and Lone Peak, while super steep, has a just a handful of skiable lines unless you're BASE jumping. I think Mammoth has more usable ski variety than Big Sky/Moonlight, and AltaBird a lot more. Vail has 5289 acres and unlike Big Sky it's nearly all usable. But Vail has average steepness while AltaBird is much steeper than average. So even there I think AltaBird has more ski variety than Vail. Whistler/Blackcomb is steeper than average; no question in my mind it is the largest ski complex in North America by a comfortable margin. But AltaBird is second IMHO.

As of right now all 3500 acres of Mammoth is accessible (probably only bout 95% now with coverage).
I think that's an overstatement. Anything on the Canyon/Chair 9 side would require a car shuttle and perhaps a bit of hiking to reach the road in some cases. About half of chair 14 terrain is skiable to Lower Roadrunner around to 12 or you'll be hiking out. I had great corn doing that back in 1995, but this year the upper part of that didn't get covered until February and most of it is gone now. I'd say there's about 2,000 now where you can ski back to a lift, but that does include all the steeps up top.

Yes, all but a few hundred of the 4,700 acres off Supreme are accessible by lift and traversing, or no more than a 5-minute hike that wouldn't be a hike during mid-winter ski season. Still 100% of all 4,700 acres with coverage.
Somewhat less of an overstatement. Is top of Gad 2 only a 5-minute hike? High Baldy to access Alta? The High Baldy traverse might take awhile on a snowboard. The Sugarloaf Pass access to get to most of Alta now has to be at least 15 minutes I would think. Unless you're an animal like salida. The High Baldy/Tombstone/Keyhole or Wildcat route is fairly straightforward sidecountry from Snowbird. The Yellow Trail/Backside/Greely Hill route takes much more work, and the schlep back to Snowbird would be quite tedious. I would certainly have stashed a car up at the Albion base if I were going to ski that. Or at Collins base for High Rustler. If on a snowboard, definitely put a car up at Alta to save a lot of grunt work.

Hah fixt.
Guess i need to get out of mammoth lakes more often.
14 days in Utah this season. :D 11 so far at Mammoth. We may get tired of it, but the Utards' provincial arrogance is supported by ample evidence. On average I would only prefer to be at Mammoth after April 15 or so.
 
Tony Crocker":3913bejo said:
Yes, all but a few hundred of the 4,700 acres off Supreme are accessible by lift and traversing, or no more than a 5-minute hike that wouldn't be a hike during mid-winter ski season. Still 100% of all 4,700 acres with coverage.
Somewhat less of an overstatement. Is top of Gad 2 only a 5-minute hike?

No hike. It's a 5-minute traverse across the Knucklehead.

Tony Crocker":3913bejo said:
High Baldy to access Alta?

10-minute hike, the same 10-minute hike that it is when all lifts are running.

Tony Crocker":3913bejo said:
The Sugarloaf Pass access to get to most of Alta now has to be at least 15 minutes I would think.

Wrong. 3 minutes. Read the original post to understand how that can be. Look at the video where Bobby starts talking about corn flakes. At that point I pan around to look at the top of the Baldy Express chair -- that's the entire hike.

Tony Crocker":3913bejo said:
The Yellow Trail/Backside/Greely Hill route takes much more work

Not at all -- it's the same three-minute hike to Sugarloaf Pass described above, although we chose to add another 5 minutes by going up the High Notch route instead of simply using gravity behind the Collins patrol shack.

Tony Crocker":3913bejo said:
and the schlep back to Snowbird would be quite tedious.

10-15 minutes of traversing (on skis), mostly gravity with an occasional hundred-yard walk on what are now asphalt residential streets.

Tony Crocker":3913bejo said:
I would certainly have stashed a car up at the Albion base if I were going to ski that.

That's where quarterbacking from L.A. does you a disservice -- we wouldn't, didn't, and didn't need to.

In summary, not an ounce of overstatement. I have to admit that I get a charge out of proving you wrong. :lol:
 
truely if it didn't rain at whis-blackcomb i'd probably agree there number one .tony the hike into alta is all of three min. the lay of the land changes this time of the year with the removal of rope lines. last weekend was the last full week of service. this weekend i wouldn't be suprised to see a rope line across the first chips switch back at tower four. from there your in the backcountry- no restrictions only common sence and judgement . you begin to really fell the lay of the land normally i wouldn't ski that east greely shot in the regular season the bottom half is all bumps. but now it's visibly a very nice shot in the early morning sun. the walk back in the few sections that you aren't skiing are down hill or flat no up hill climb at this point your almost back to the tram .
 
truely if it didn't rain at whis-blackcomb i'd probably agree there number one
My comment about Whistler/Blackcomb being #1 was only about terrain, not snow conditions. Everyone here knows I think snow conditions are key, and that I consider AltaBird overall the best skiing in North America.

While I might have overestimated the actual uphill, throw in the tedious traverses and obviously a lot of time was consumed not skiing:
One hour 40 minutes for a lap..... call it a day at 1:30 -- 4 hours, 3 runs.
I'm sure the quality was phenomenal, but Mammoth wasn't exactly chopped liver and it was 3x as much skiing. Admin and I have a well known difference of opinion on the tradeoffs of quality vs. quantity, and this is one of the more extreme examples. So I would agree that 4,000 acres are accessible, but it costs a significant amount of time and effort to access some of it.
 
the one hour fourty minute lap needs to include alot of stopping & talking time figured in there. twenty min. could easily be trimmed from that time except for the fact that it's not about quantity all quality there's just no rush. when there's no competetion. the walk back through the residential streets thats through the low rent district of alta on the west side . heading further west you come to the hud housing of snowbird and the cliff lodge everyone knows the cliffs being run by gangs and drug lords.
 
Bobby Danger":3tzkj92c said:
the one hour fourty minute lap needs to include alot of stopping & talking time figured in there. twenty min. could easily be trimmed from that time except for the fact that it's not about quantity all quality there's just no rush. when there's no competetion. the walk back through the residential streets thats through the low rent district of alta on the west side . heading further west you come to the hud housing of snowbird and the cliff lodge everyone knows the cliffs being run by gangs and drug lords.

I dont think it took us anywhere near an hour and 40min to do the high baldy traverse/main chute/high rustler/back to car....

Well ok maybe 1 hour 20 min......we didnt "bubba" all that much. :D

M
 
As always I defer to fit Utah locals in terms of how long hikes/traverses may take. In terms of providing advice to visitors from sea level like snowboard247 perhaps my experience is a better guide. FWIW it took me 34 minutes to climb Baldy from Sugarloaf Pass in 2007. Compare that to whatever someone like skidog would take and adjust accordingly.
 
I'd agree with that summation Tony. It's much easier for a local, and someone acclimated to the terrain and elevation to knock what we call easy traverses/hikes out.

Bobby's comment about new rope lines has a lot of validity though.
 
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