Snowbird, UT 5/30/11

[Admin]

All three of us skied four runs and went home. And all three of us agreed that had we gone home after that first run we all would have been perfectly satisfied with the experience.

Maybe that's true for people who get 50 powder days a season half an hour from home. But I suspect the vast majority of skiers would be rather PO'ed about getting less than half as many runs as expected on a day of that quality because the ski area in question couldn't run just one more lift.

Please remember that the vast majority of the skiers who were there were the people who get 50 powder days a season half an hour from home. You don't really think that those were visitors hiking over to Little Cloud, do you?

Also, see Marc_C's comments above that are absolutely spot on.

 

[Tony Crocker]

It was a two-hour delayed opening.

caused by the same severe understaffing as the inadequate number of lifts. On April 30 we didn't have that problem with even more new snow.

ski-on for Little Cloud

because you had to climb over the Cirque to get there.

 

[Tony Crocker]

How many [Memorial Day closures of Snowbird] in the past 10 years? I can remember only one.

If this is true, why schedule tram maintenance for May? Mammoth probably has more summer tourism for its gondola, but that maintenance started immediately after Memorial Day, as it has for at least the past decade.

 

[Marc_C]

How many [Memorial Day closures of Snowbird] in the past 10 years? I can remember only one.

If this is true, why schedule tram maintenance for May? Mammoth probably has more summer tourism for its gondola, but that maintenance started immediately after Memorial Day, as it has for at least the past decade.

Because the tram is for tourists after May. You still refuse to acknowledge that after April, it's not at all about skiing for Snowbird. If they're able to offer skiing, as in the majority of years, they do so, but that is no longer the primary focus. Unlike Mammoth, Snowbird is a year round resort and conference center. Now with the Peruvian lift and tunnel, they do not depend on the tram as they once needed to for late season skiing. It's not all about you and your vertical for the year. Quit harping on that.

Again, if you object (and I'm not sure why, given your copious visits after April over the years), take it up with Snowbird management.

Yes, if it really makes your dick harder, Mammoth is a far better mountain in all respects and is far better run. There. Happy now?

 

[Marc_C]

It was a two-hour delayed opening.

caused by the same severe understaffing as the inadequate number of lifts. On April 30 we didn't have that problem with even more new snow.

Apparently you have an inside line to the entirety of Snowbird management. In that case, please tell us about the decision making process that snow safety used to determine what got opened when. You also apparently know quite a bit about Snowbird's financials, staffing levels, and the decisions surrounding those aspects. Enlighten us then about why they are understaffed.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Fewer snow safety personnel = longer time to do control work. Also, avalanche control work is best done from the top down. Not having the tram very likely made the process more difficult. This was a concern I heard from snow safety people at Jackson during the seasons its new tram was under construction. Another reason June is preferable to May for tram maintenance. This is not the only May that Snowbird has had significant snowfall.

 

[Tony Crocker]

No, I have often expressed the opinion that Snowbird is my favorite ski mountain. But I have a different opinion of which management takes care of its customers better.

I think the analogy of this particular issue is quite close. Both areas have a top lift suitable for summer tourists (tram/gondola) with an alternative ski lift that serves most but not all of the ski terrain (Peruvian/chair 23). Mammoth has more spring skiers but probably has as least as many summer tourists as Snowbird. The Mammoth gondola is a big attraction for summer mountain bikers, so gondola maintenance is done before the bike trails are open.

 

[Admin]

It was a two-hour delayed opening.

caused by the same severe understaffing as the inadequate number of lifts.

Ostensibly, no.

On April 30 we didn't have that problem with even more new snow.

Really? Tell us, Tony...was the snow crystal structure identical too? Was it over precisely the same subsurface? Did it have identical water weight? I'd like to hear your first-hand observations. :roll:

ski-on for Little Cloud

because you had to climb over the Cirque to get there.

No, by the time we left the MBE line had cycled at least once, probably twice, so folks who were heading to LC could have gotten there several times over without hiking. Remember, too, that the Peruvian line had disappeared by then too according to mbaydala.

 

[Marc_C]

It was a two-hour delayed opening.

On April 30 we didn't have that problem with even more new snow.

I missed this in my other response but Marc picked up on it...
Please tell me that you're really not that shockingly clueless about avalanches and snowpack stability, are you?

Also, what economic sense would it make for Snowbird to hire extra snow safety personnel and lift operators for merely a *single day in extremely late season*?

 

[Tony Crocker]

As noted before Mammoth did not hire extra lift ops; they have full time employees, occasionally including COO Rusty Gregory, run the lifts on known busy days after the seasonal employees are gone.

I know that Mammoth had some delayed terrain openings from the storm of May 18-20 due to there being fewer patrollers on staff than during midwinter. It is not an unreasonable assumption that there was a similar impact at Snowbird Sunday. I agree that snow safety is a specialized skill that can't be stopgapped by using other personnel and thus understand why there was a delayed opening. I do criticize that the wait for most people was so long because there was only one lift running from the base.

Little Cloud was ski-on when you got there because you climbed over the Cirque. I suspect it was quite busy after it was accessible from MBE. It is disingenuous to claim you were content with your day after 4 runs. If the tram or Gadzoom had been open with those conditions you would have stayed and skied much more.

 

[Admin]

It is disingenous to claim you were content with your day after 4 runs. If the tram or Gadzoom had been open with those conditions you would have stayed and skied much more.

No I absolutely would not have, my legs were toast after 4 straight days of skiing, three of which were basically non-stop powder. Is the use of the term "disingenous" your way of saying that I'm out-and-out lying about that?

And how about answering the questions above regarding your complete and utter ignorance of snow stability instead of conveniently avoiding them?

 

[Tony Crocker]

I conceded the snow stability issue and that Snowbird can't be expected to have a midwinter patrol staff in late May. My criticism remains with respect to lift operations.

my legs were toast

As would be those of nearly anyone after climbing the Cirque in fresh powder. Which would not have been necessary with adequate lift service.

 

[Admin]

I conceded the snow stability issue and that Snowbird can't be expected to have a midwinter patrol staff in late May. My criticism remains with respect to lift operations.

But you didn't respond to the criticism of your own complete ignorance regarding the factors that affect snow stability from one storm to another when you're nonetheless willing to criticize snow safety efforts from 500 miles away. I'm still waiting for that.

my legs were toast

As would be those of nearly anyone after climbing the Cirque in fresh powder. Which would not have been necessary with adequate lift service.

Oh, buzz off. We climbed not to avoid liftlines (recall that we intentionally returned to Peruvian for run #2 knowing full well what would be waiting down there), but to access untracked snow when snow safety efforts hadn't yet readied Mineral Basin to reach said untracked snow via lift. You're really demonstrating your unchecked cluelessness here. Everything you subsequently type just demonstrates it further.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

I'm calling BS on ALL of these Admin/Tony/Marc_C arguments.

Here's what I suspect -- to increase traffic during the slow June/July/August months, Admin has hired a comedy writer who happens to be well-versed in ski-related jargon, given him their passwords, a short bio of each contributor (writing style, personal likes/dislikes), and told the writer to create ongoing conflict.

One of the three (the "Tony" persona) will post a series of untenable arguments to which the other two will get increasingly agitated, inciting other contributors who feel the same to join in. The Tony persona will stoically stand his ground, but refuse to stoop to name calling, which further aggravates the Admin/Marc_C personae.

 

[Admin]

You've described the "Tony persona's" M.O. beautifully. The Jamesdeluxe persona will make his debut shortly.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

 

[Marc_C]

You've described the "Tony persona's" M.O. beautifully. The Jamesdeluxe persona will make his debut shortly.

It seems that some folks in these fora are actually chatbots in reality, modeled on Eliza.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ELIZA

http://www.manifestation.com/neurotoys/eliza.php3

 

[Bobby Danger]

ya i believe mammoth management takes better care of the customers they have to there's more demand mammoth stands to lose more than snowbird . but by no means am i saying that snowbird doesn't do there best and the majority of time they make the place a better place to be , but every now and then like this past weekend things were a bit slow at the beginning , whether or not the rest of the place was ready to go i.m.o. didn't really matter ,to just be out their was the best thing of all ! and when we all got let loose on the hill it was more than anyone could have expected as far as quality . so really i beleive that both places have trade offs that balance out , i certainly wouldn't want lines like last weekend all the time not this time of year . and the next time something like this would probably happen will be july 4th . snowbird just doesn't have the demand to be open all week this isn't cali. we don't have 34 million to draw from ! and people aren't going to travel to and fro this time of year unless they find a killer deal . not even for a fresh coating on memorial weekend.

 

[longshanks]

I'm calling BS on ALL of these Admin/Tony/Marc_C arguments.

Here's what I suspect -- to increase traffic during the slow June/July/August months, Admin has hired a comedy writer who happens to be well-versed in ski-related jargon, given him their passwords, a short bio of each contributor (writing style, personal likes/dislikes), and told the writer to create ongoing conflict.

One of the three (the "Tony" persona) will post a series of untenable arguments to which the other two will get increasingly agitated, inciting other contributors who feel the same to join in. The Tony persona will stoically stand his ground, but refuse to stoop to name calling, which further aggravates the Admin/Marc_C personae.

I couldn't fackin agree more, I haven't been on FTO for many weeks and after reading for only a few minutes I find the point-counterpoint banter just a tedious bore...just kiss and make up already boys.

 

[Patrick]

This is almost as much fun as when Tony's girlfriends started fighting each other online.

 

[q]

Loving this thread from here in a sunny Scotland where our two days of summer are over, the temperature set to plunge 10 degrees or more tomorrow back to 12-14 degree centigrade. The countdown to winter starts.

Anyway, I really just wanted to say to Eisengrim to take up admin's offer of skiing with him. I did it twice this winter and saw a completely different mountain to what I'd seen before meaning Alta moved way up in my estimations and I will ski there way more next trip for sure, hopefully with the same friendly bunch too.

BBQ and ice cold wine time!