Southern French Alps: Off-The-Beaten-Path Ideas

[jamesdeluxe]

I ran into this series of well-done articles from the Skipass site that cover a mixture of lift-served and earned-turns days at locations to the south/southwest of Briançon and Montgenèvre. I plotted the seven stops on the map below, which provide a nice itinerary for when I return to that region. Excellent photos and worth running the links through Google Translate.


End of January 2022: Skipass embarks on a road trip to discover the treasures of the Southern Alps in the middle of the region's least snowy season in decades. That's the way it rolls -- no one controls the weather -- however, it didn't stop us from making many turns in-bounds and beyond, with some nice surprises along the way. We left with dozens of routes in our heads, numerous great moments, as well as tourtons and local beer in our bellies. In short, many reasons to head south again when the white stuff decides to fall from the sky (which, of course, it did a week after our visit).

• Massif des Écrins: Vallouise Pelvoux
• Queyras
• Orcières-Merlette
• Risoul
• Les Orres
• Crévoux
• Dévoluy

 

[Sbooker]

Looks a great place to check out. I wonder if the region is adversely effected by holiday crowds like the big name joints? January seems a little early for an assured natural snow base?

 

[Tony Crocker]

Looks a great place to check out. I wonder if the region is adversely effected by holiday crowds like the big name joints?

I'd guess strictly the French holidays in the immediate region. The far southern Alps near Nice appears an entirely local market. Maybe similar once you get south of Serre Chevalier and Montgenevre?

January seems a little early for an assured natural snow base?

It's mainly a high volatility situation. Wait until snow is on the ground. The entire southern Alps were a bust in 2021-22. I'd guess lodging is easy to get last minute aside from those regional French holidays.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

It's mainly a high volatility situation. Wait until snow is on the ground.

Fraser underscored this point In my early February 2023 St. Véran report:

Regarding the climate here, it's about as boom or bust as you can get in the Alps. Snows are very occasional and almost entirely from the "Retour d'Est" phenomena. But they can be exceptionally heavy when they do come. That said, the bust part is a bit unfair as the southernly intra-alpine location means that humidity is low, it hardly ever rains, and snow conservation is excellent. One big snowfall early in the season can sometimes be enough to see them through, on-piste at least. If sunshine is a priority, this would also be as good as anywhere to hedge your bets.

Here's a "boom" pic from the Queyras article:

In my Ceillac/Arvieux report, I noted that on-piste conditions during that snow drought were vastly better than at the mainstream resorts we visited: Serre Chevalier and Puy Saint Vincent. No surprise given the comparatively small amount of ski traffic.

 

[ChrisC]

Snows are very occasional and almost entirely from the "Retour d'Est" phenomena. But they can be exceptionally heavy when they do come. That said, the bust part is a bit unfair as the southernly intra-alpine location means that humidity is low, it hardly ever rains, and snow conservation is excellent. One big snowfall early in the season can sometimes be enough to see them through, on-piste at least.

Almost all the Southern Alps ski resorts, Italian ski resorts (Aosta and Dolomites), and even Zermatt/St. Moritz are highly dependent on the "Retour d'Est" storms. The WePowder Guidebook indicates that Fall/Early Winter and Late Winter/Spring are optimal times for this weather pattern - and therefore, you are dependent upon a Late October/November/early December storm (multiple meters) for a decent season/base. The orographic lift on the south side of the Alps is even more extreme (Po River Valley to immediate 3000-4000m peaks) than on the north and west sides, resulting in huge snow totals.

Basically, you will know by December most years if these regions are a go/no-go for a ski year. For example, Zermatt has been horrible in both 2022/23 and 2023/24, except for a March storm in 2024.

Even the guys at Peak Rankings thought Zermatt was mediocre. However, they only visit a place once and typically extrapolate an expert review and guide from a one-time short visit. Typical Millennial content - short on truth/research, heavy on experience/authenticity. (On the other hand, they characterize Lake Louise/Banff as a great snow region when it's quite mediocre.)

Zermatt is the best mediocre ski resort in the world

 

[Tony Crocker]

However, they only visit a place once and typically extrapolate an expert review and guide from a one-time short visit.

Yes. As of now, I have skied exactly half (143) of my 286 ski area count only one day. I always try to evaluate whether I'm seeing representative conditions or something far above or below normal.

On the other hand, they characterize Lake Louise/Banff as a great snow region

Sunshine averaged 135% of average for 4 years 2011-2014, which overlapped the 2012-2015 period that was severely bad over a wide swath of US ski areas.

 

[Sbooker]

Yes. As of now, I have skied exactly half (143) of my 286 ski area count only one day. I always try to evaluate whether I'm seeing representative conditions or something far above or below normal.

This is really interesting.
I personally find I have the best time when I go to a ski area that I'm at least partially familiar with although checking out a new area does have appeal. Do you ever go to an area and opt to go back to somewhere you're familiar with instead of going to a new resort?

As far as the general area of this thread goes I'm really looking forward to going back to Serre Chevalier in better conditions. The guides office there does a daily outing at reasonable prices as per Chamonix. And as long as they can make a group of 4 you can go as an individual.

Ski hors piste, free ride et free rando à Serre Chevalier - Briançon

Découvrez le ski hors piste, mais aussi la free rando, à Serre Chevalier, Briançon, Montgenèvre, la Grave ou Sestriere avec un guide de haute montagne.

guides-serrechevalier.com

120 Euro for a full day is good value in my eyes.

 

[Tony Crocker]

The WePowder Guidebook indicates that Fall/Early Winter and Late Winter/Spring are optimal times for this weather pattern - and therefore, you are dependent upon a Late October/November/early December storm (multiple meters) for a decent season/base.

I would question that theory. One of the few extensive monthly data sets in the Alps is from Isola 2000, which is about as southern as you can get in the Alps. 33-year monthly averages: Nov. 21.44, Dec. 32.08, Jan. 34.61, Feb. 23.04, Mar. 29.56, Apr. 31.40

Volatility is indeed very high. Standard deviation as percent of average is .826. Only Mt. Rose at .848 and SoCal at .972 are higher in North America. Typical range of this stat is .4 to.5 in the Rockies, .5 to .6 in the Northwest and .7 to.8 in the Sierra. The most consistent places are modestly under .4. In context Tignes is .668 and Val Thorens .697

 

[Tony Crocker]

Do you ever go to an area and opt to go back to somewhere you're familiar with instead of going to a new resort?

That would be based upon condition and terrain priorities. Last March we were headed for the Southwest after Iron Blosam, which might have given us a couple of new areas. But that region had a 3 week dry spell so we changed plans and went north from Crested Butte to Vail/Beaver Creek instead. And while there I would normally pick Vail for a powder day but when Vail got 8 inches vs. 14 at Beaver Creek we opted for that day at the Beav.

In the Alps we have usually opted for the new places. The conspicuous exception was Val d'Isere 2018 when conditions were so good we extended from 7 days to 10 and never went anywhere else. This past January we paid return visits to Courchevel and Courmayeur because I really hadn't seen them that well the first time (same applies to Serre Chevalier in 2023). In 2022 and 2024 I circled back to Verbier to ski some terrain that I missed on earlier visits.

We have now skied enough in the Alps that I would expect future trips to trend gradually in the direction of our North American road trips, repeating favored spots with occasional days at new places.

 

[ChrisC]

I would question that theory. One of the few extensive monthly data sets in the Alps is from Isola 2000, which is about as southern as you can get in the Alps. 33-year monthly averages: Nov. 21.44, Dec. 32.08, Jan. 34.61, Feb. 23.04, Mar. 29.56, Apr. 31.40

While WePowder has sophisticated weather models that utilize lots of data, its Guidebook is relatively data-free regarding snowfall. It describes optimal months to visit, but it's more based on expert opinion.

I am primarily getting this information from their description of "Optimal Winter Scenarios" for Monterosa, Aosta, and the Dolomites. Essentially, if you hear about Venice Flooding in the Fall/Early Winter, book a trip to the Southern Alps - Italy in particular. Creates a lasting season-long base.

The Isola snowfall data looks relatively stable month-to-month.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Creates a lasting season-long base.

Yes, few of the southern Alps major resorts have super low base elevations, and rain is much less common than on the northern side. The big winners in terms of southern weather exposure and high altitude for preservation are Zermatt, Saas Fee and St. Moritz. Most of the Italian places have varied exposures for spring conditions even if they are high enough to avoid rapid melting out.

WePowder's clientele in general is going to have a strong preference for the second half of the season when an adequate natural snowpack is built up off piste.

 

[jimk]

Just found out my daughter, the one that likes durian fruit, is planning to ski at a place in the southern Alps called Vars in January 2025. I have no idea how she found this place or what her motivations are? Vars appears to have a vertical of 1100m and 50+ lifts! It tops out at about 2700m/8800ft. I've never heard of it. It's amazing that there seem to be dozens, perhaps hundreds, of resorts of this size in the Alps that most Americans have never heard of. It appears to be about 40 miles south of Briancon. The only ski area I've heard of that is sort of nearby is Serre Chevalier. Any of you ever ski Vars? I'll try to find out more about why my daughter selected to go with her husband to this destination?? She lives in NYC.
Update: they are going to Vars for a conference her husband (the dermatologist) is attending. They are both competent skiers. Should be fun for them.

 

[Tony Crocker]

James TR from Vars in 2023. Hopefully the connection and joint ticket to Risoul is in place. I'd inquire about that first. About an hour farther south is another sizable complex Espace Lumiere, which James skied in 2018.

These places take some effort. I do not know any other region in the Alps farther from gateway airports or high speed autoroutes. We had 5 hours of secondary road driving between Briancon and Auron in 2023. This factor I'm sure is a positive for limiting crowds to mostly locals.

I'll try to find out more about why my daughter selected to go with her husband to this destination?? She lives in NYC.

Yes we would be curious about that. I'd be nervous about advance committing lodging $$ for January in such a high volatility snowfall region. Given the remote location, I hope they have a rental car. I'll repeat the advice we often give here: You will not have trouble arranging lodging in January on short notice. I think these are very worthwhile destinations if they have snow, but you need to keep your options open.

 

[Sbooker]

I don’t know much about those areas aside from what I’ve read but I see zero reasons to go past Serre Chevalier if in that general region. 80% of its terrain is above 1800 metres and the area is vast and has extremely diverse terrain. The lift system is great too. And Briancon itself is a wonderful town. Add to that the Via Lattea resorts that straddle the French/Italian border are about a 25 minute drive away.

I agree with Tony though. Don’t commit to lodging. There is no need in January anyway.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

I see zero reasons to go past Serre Chevalier if in that general region. 80% of its terrain is above 1800 metres and the area is vast and has extremely diverse terrain. The lift system is great too. And Briancon itself is a wonderful town.

All of us who've been to Serre Chevalier agree that it's an excellent mega resort but the part in bold ^^ is a bit melodramatic -- like saying "I'm flying to France and planning to spend the entire time in Paris." Of course, it's an option if you're interested primarily in French big-city life rather than what one can also experience in smaller towns.

Hopefully the connection and joint ticket to Risoul is in place. I'd inquire about that first.

The Mexican Standoff that occurred during my visit was resolved a year ago -- here's the translated article that explains the background of the disagreement.

 

[jimk]

The Vars report by James is excellent. Shared it with daughter. I assume her accommodations costs are covered by husband's employer and skiing in the region appears extensive and high enough to support some decent skiing no matter what.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

I assume her accommodations costs are covered by husband's employer

The conference must've been organized by a European entity as the closest gateway airport from the U.S. is Milan, four hours from Vars.

the region appears extensive and high enough to support some decent skiing

The footprint of Vars/Risoul is approx. the same size as Alta/Snowbird.

 

[jimk]

The conference must've been organized by a European entity as the closest gateway airport from the U.S. is Milan, four hours from Vars.


The footprint of Vars/Risoul is approx. the same size as Alta/Snowbird.

That footprint comparison seems small-ish for an area with 30 or more ski lifts? I noted your comment in your report that in 2023 the lift pass was not reciprocal between the two - Vars/Risoul. I wonder if that has been fixed?

I'll have to see if my daughter plans any sightseeing in a gateway city like Milan or Geneva. I starting to get a little envious But during that same timeframe I'll probably be skiing in CO, on my migration to UT.

Ski lifts Vars/Risoul – La Forêt Blanche​

All lifts/cable cars at the ski resort Vars/Risoul – La Forêt Blanche​

• Ski resort
  

  • Overview​
  • Trail map​
  • Video​
  • Ski lifts​
  • Slopes​
  • Night skiing​
  • Innovations​
• Evaluation​
• Snow report & Weather​
• Accommodation & Deals​
• Ski rental​
• Ski schools​
• Access​
• Contact​

Number of ski lifts​	34
Total capacity​	50090 Passengers/hour
Total lift length​	39.5 km Total

Directly to:

• New ski lifts
• All ski lifts in detail

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1​

Circulating ropeway/gondola lift

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1​

6pers. Cage lift

1​

Combined installation (gondola and chair)

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1​

Combined installation (6 pers. chair and 10 pers. gondola)

18​

Chairlift

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1​

8pers. High speed chairlift (detachable)

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7​

6pers. High speed chairlift (detachable)

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3​

4pers. High speed chairlift (detachable)

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6​

4pers. Chairlift (fixed-grip)

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1​

2pers. Chairlift (fixed-grip)

12​

T-bar lift/platter/button lift

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12​

J-bar

2​

People mover

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2​

People mover​

 

[Sbooker]

excellent mega resort

It didn’t have that feel to me. It had a different vibe to 3 Valleys and Tignes/Val. Which was kind of my point. Such a great vast ski area without the associated ‘mega’ downsides.

 

[Tony Crocker]

80% of its terrain is above 1800 metres

Base elevations at both Vars-Risoul and Espace Lumiere are about 1,800 meters. That said I suspect Serre Chevalier is at least as extensive as Vars-Risoul and Espace Lumiere combined.

The footprint of Vars/Risoul is approx. the same size as Alta/Snowbird.

To quote George Orwell, "some ski acreage is more equal than others." From the pics, AltaBird is not an appropriate comparison. Terrain overall looks fairly mellow, so there could be a lot of flat spots and terrain traps. That said, if you get some fresh snow, I predict there will be almost zero competition for it.

"Footprint" at places like Alta/Snowbird and Vail mean that almost all of it is skiable. In the Alps, if you stay on piste like 95% of visitors, these places will not ski anywhere near as big as Vail by trail mileage, which ironically is the stat the Euros seem to love. If you only count trail mileage, I'd hazard a guess that Vail and Serre Chevalier are in the same ballpark.

So the off piste is much of what gives the Alps so much more scale. And it's difficult via trail map to figure that out. For the high profile places. you can get an idea from TRs, guidebooks etc. For the more obscure places, you may have to explore by yourself. James has made an art form of this, especially at more intermediate pitched places where the avalanche risk is low. I'm somewhat surprised that even the Powderhounds website does not review Vars-Risoul or Espace Lumiere. Powderhounds lured me to Lauchneralp last year.