Spring Break 2008

[Geoff]

Vail is much easier terrain than Whistler. The front face is typically groomed to death and skis like midmountain at Blackcomb or the Emerald area at Whistler. If "Spring" means April, the back bowls bake in the sun and could have rotted snow.

As people are saying here, if "Spring" is "April", you want higher elevation and/or a more northern resort to have the best shot at midwinter conditions.

 

[Tony Crocker]

In North America the northern resorts are often much lower in altitude. The key factors in spring are altitude and north exposure. A southern area like Taos with high altitude and steep north exposure rates to be better than a lower altitude northern area (Washington State, Schweitzer, Fernie, etc.) with low altitude and varied exposures.

Vail's Back Bowls do have bad exposures. But there's plenty of north exposure on the front side and Blue Sky Basin, so the sunnier bowls can be just be timed for the short window of optimal conditions.

Since the altitude range in the East is not great, latitude is a more important factor there. Patrick is correct in his comments about Quebec City vs. New England in spring for that reason.

 

[Patrick]

Catching up on some posts.

Since the altitude range in the East is not great, latitude is a more important factor there. Patrick is correct in his comments about Quebec City vs. New England in spring for that reason.

However there is also a climat issue. Higher northern latitude of Banff is a big + in April, not so big in Whistler regardless of latitude or altitude. Whistler climat is milder than Banff.

As people are saying here, if "Spring" is "April", you want higher elevation and/or a more northern resort to have the best shot at midwinter conditions.

Agreed.

It's true that I haven't skied the Western US in Spring time, but I know that Banff conditions (LL or SV) can be truly amazing. Lookout Mountain is definitely the safest place, but Goat's Eye can still be pretty good too. As for abilities, there is some great expert stuff on Lookout that is often overlooked.

Whistler has longer runs with conditions varying by altitude, so stamina is important there.

Whistler can be interesting in April and not only the good kind of interesting (conditions wise) that is why I would flavour Banff over Whistler in April, especially with kids.

Snow averages (both @ 7,000 ft) 161 inches at Lake Louise and 249 at Sunshine. Agree Continental Divide sector at Sunshine is as spring-reliable as it gets. But Goat's Eye has a lot of the upper intermediate/advanced terrain that they want, and it faces SW. Thus it will lose snow in spring of below average years. The true expert stuff (Delirium Dive, etc.) is not an appopriate recommendation here. Louise has north facing steeps that preserve well. Front side faces south, but has enough snowmaking to keep some trails open to the base even in the bad years.

Been to Banff/LL in mid-April 96, mid-April 99, late-April 00 and late March 02. Conditions have never been an issue, except on some specific terrain on certain year, but overall, the overall price/quality of the experience would be hard to beat.

Again, I believe that Sunshine is ideal for your criteria: April with your kids. Plus price would be pretty good. Either you stay at the mountain OR you stay in Banff and do the touristy stuff in town (Hot Springs, etc).

Travel time from Banff lodging is at least as long as SLC-based commutes to Cottonwood Canyons.

That is why I mentioned staying on the hill at Sunshine. It's pretty much a unique experience, in Canada at least.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

It sounds like Ann Marie isn't taking Patrick's subtle, but relentless hints. I agree with him though... for that time period, Sunshine is the clear winner.

It's one of the few times I've actually listened to Crocker.

 

[Tony Crocker]

All 4 of the seasons Patrick was in Banff were above average. This is not really an issue, because for mid-April it's safe to hold off booking until Jan/Feb anyway to see how the season is developing.

I do see an issue with Annmarief's desire to stay in one place, hopefully close to the mountain. Patrick should understand, since he also has an advanced skiing child who has a limited tolerance for early-rising/faced paced road trips. I think Sunshine is not big or diverse enough for a whole week; if you go to Banff I think you want half or more of the time at Lake Louise, conditions permitting. Staying in Lake Louise cuts down the commute time; that's what I did with Adam on our first trip there in 1999.

From Annmarief's criteria I think she needs one big, diverse ski area with close by lodging. With the mid-April time frame I think Mammoth is the best choice. Vail and Whistler would work well too, though I'd go with Vail first while kids are younger.

 

[Sharon]

I think you should skip Solitude and go to Snowbird instead. There is some really nice tree skiing (but not like in the east and midwest...it's a different animal out west) and plenty of moguls to keep your kids entertained. Plus, if you stay at any of the Snowbird properties, there is plenty for the kids to do after skiing...pools, game rooms etc.

You can even take the bus that stops at Snowbird and go over the Alta.

Access is very easy. Less than 30 min from the airport and all of the Snowbird resorts have shuttles to pick you up. A real no-brainer.

April in Utah will usually give you sunny bright days where you'll want to get out early and ski before it gets slushy, but Snowbird has the most northern aspects and snow stays the best there. Your best chance for the best snow of a spring snowstorm will be at Snowbird. I wouldn't touch Solitude in April on a sunny day.

Solitude is lower in elevation and doesn't get as light and dry snow as The Bird and it has a lot of exposed areas. When we skied at Solitude on March it was a challenge to find the north slopes where the snow was less gloppy.

I also love Banff, but I don't think the access is as easy, though there are many amenities. You would need to take a shuttle or rent a car to get from the airport to Banff, and then from Banff to either Sunshine Village or Lake Louise. While they stay colder longer than most BC ski areas, conditions can also vary as they will anywhere that time of year.

IMO, Snowbird is your best bet.

Keep us posted as to where you decide...(considering you didn't already go in April 2008)

 

[Admin]

all of the Snowbird resorts have shuttles to pick you up

Not entirely accurate. You can get an airport shuttle (Canyon Transport, etc.) from the airport to any of the Snowbird lodges, but for a fee -- they're not operated by the resort.

 

[Sharon]

Admin wrote:

Not entirely accurate. You can get an airport shuttle (Canyon Transport, etc.) from the airport to any of the Snowbird lodges, but for a fee -- they're not operated by the resort.

ok, whatever...it very easy to get a shuttle to Snowbird from the airport and once you are there, you don't need a vehicle and can ski at both Snowbird and Alta where THE BEST skiing is in April.

If you and your kids are advanced skiers, you will absolutely love Snowbird. There is so much more to ski there than Solitude and much of it is nicely challenging.

It can get busy there, but probably not as much in April. The new Peruvian lift hardly ever has much of a wait. You may have to wait to get on the Tram for a bit. But once you get up on the mountain, it is very easy to get away from the intermediate traffic.

When I was there in February, one of the busier times, there were some lift lines for the lifts serving the Gad Valley because that is where the best untracked snow was. But once out on the slopes, we hardly enountered other people once we dropped into the glades and chutes. Typically, the 3 or 4 of us were "the crowd" in most of the places we went off the cat tracks/connector trails. There is a lot of terrain to explore and I am sure if you and your kids enjoy steeps, glades, open bowls and chutes, on mostly northern exposures (except Mineral Basin of course), you will LOVE Snowbird.

 

[Admin]

When I was there in February, one of the busier times, there were some lift lines for the lifts serving the Gad Valley because that is where the best untracked snow was.

As you know but others don't, I was with you that day. Gad 2 was never more than 5 minutes and that was the worst we encountered.

on mostly northern exposures (except Mineral Basin of course)

Even Mineral Basin has substantial areas of north-facing, if you know where you're going.

 

[Patrick]

I disagree with Tony (what a surprise). :lol:

Banff: no need to rent a car / convient shuttle.
Mammoth: don't think so and the place is so much more car oriented. Not as close to an airport either.

Banff: you can stay litterary on the hill at Sunshine. If you decide to stay in town, shuttle buses to areas are great.

Bored? Well Tony and Adam might get bored at Sunshine, but heck how many ski areas have they seen all over the World? They look down on the East and I wouldn't even venture and they would think of Midwest skiing? This said, you don't have to ski one week at Sunshine? Sunshine will pretty have great coverage on Lookout mountain.

Here is my breakdown of days at both on my two exclusive Banff week trips (both in April)(not counting my combo trips in 96 or 02):

Yes, I prefer LL, but SV is far from being a terrible place to ski.

Lake Louise: 6
Sunshine: 5

Sunshine is the only ski area I've visit in North America that has that Alps feelling/vibe. Skiing above treeline, scenary, etc.

About being bored with Sunshine (okay, this was March break), but a ski industry/ex-racer guy (I'm not in his league) and his racer kids spent one week at Sunshine. Don't think they were bored.

I also love Banff, but I don't think the access is as easy, though there are many amenities. You would need to take a shuttle or rent a car to get from the airport to Banff, and then from Banff to either Sunshine Village or Lake Louise. While they stay colder longer than most BC ski areas, conditions can also vary as they will anywhere that time of year.

I commented on the car part already. Banff is colder, winter last longer. I've had winter conditions with winter snow as well as Spring conditions on the trips I've had at Sunshine/LL.

 

[rfarren]

I've been to banff a few times, and SlC quite a bit. Banff is not nearly as good IMHO as SLC. Certainly, the banff spring hotel is fabulous, but when I go skiing one thing really takes precedent over all others: SNOW. For that reason Banff isn't that great. Sunshine does get more snow than lake louise, but its a pain to get to. There is less to do at Sunshine than there is at Snowbird, with inferior snow and terrain. Lake Louise on the other hand has great terrain, but is often lacking great snow. April, however, is a good time to go... but as always, getting there is a pain. It's a haul from Calgary, and at least from stateside calgary is a pain to get to. When I went the exchange rate was favorable, but I don't believe that is the case anymore. That being the case If I go to Canada for skiing, it will be to whistler, where I have free lodging, and the mountain and snow are superior, not to mention the nightlife...

 

[Patrick]

April, however, is a good time to go... but as always, getting there is a pain. It's a haul from Calgary, and at least from stateside calgary is a pain to get to. When I went the exchange rate was favorable, but I don't believe that is the case anymore.

120km from Calgary in a shuttle bus is way easier than 300km+ from Reno with a car rental. (Refering to Tony's Mammoth suggestion).

That being the case If I go to Canada for skiing, it will be to whistler, where I have free lodging, and the mountain and snow are superior, not to mention the nightlife...

Snow is superior in April? :shock: Weather also? Friend that stayed there for a few years called it Pisstler. Like I said, Whistler is hit or miss. I've been in Whistler in April in 96, but kept going to Banff afterwards.

Nightlife? We talking about bringing kids here, so it wouldn't involved dancing on bars. :roll:

 

[Marc_C]

Weather also? Friend that stayed there for a few years called it Pisstler. Like I said, Whistler is hit or miss. I've been in Whistler in April in 96,...

I'll say! I, too, was at Whistler for 3 days in April of 96. I had just spent a week at a conference in Vancouver. Drove up on Saturday in spectacular, clear, sunny weather. Sunday, my first day of skiing, at Blackcomb, was a repeat. Hooked up with one of the Tour the Mountain excursions in late morning and skied the Blackcomb Galcier. The next day was sullen with rain at the base, a weird mix mid-mountain with lots of fog, and light snow with light so flat that it was extremely difficult to ski in the high alpine. I found the bottom terminal of the Catskinner lift by the sound of its drive motor. I still couldn't see it from 20 meters away. Had fun but was drenched by 2:30 and called it a day.

My final day was a solid downpour all the way up to well above the top of all the lifts. Didn't even bother to ski and returned my rentals that morning. The positive to the day was discovering Skaha rock climbing when I came across a guidebook in the village mountain shop, but that's a different story.

 

[icelanticskier]

out of a couple of dozen ski days at whistler split evenly between april and may, i'm batting about 900 for sunny days and just a few foggy/rain low, snow high days. one april of 99 i was there from april 5th till the 15th and i skied boot top deep in the alpine and bc for 9 days straight as it would snow every night with just enough wind to move it around in perfect distribution. on the foggy days blackcomb tree skiing was the call. on the sunny days everything was great although i do prefer the terrain and bc access of whistler over blackcomb. i've spent time in banff in the spring as well and have had good conditions but, more variable due to a colder/dryer snowpack as opposed to the, once it's corn it's corn consistency of whislers more maritime climate. skiing conditions below the alpine in april? i only use it to get back to the village so skiing on those slopes is just a means of transport.
whistler would be my choice for the convenience and fun of the village alone. the terrain between the two are enough for a week as well.
rog

 

[rfarren]

Nightlife? We talking about bringing kids here, so it wouldn't involved dancing on bars. :roll:

There are more kid friendly options in whistler I believe than there are in Banff. If you want time alone from the kids, there are more options in whistler as well. Of course, that is my opinion only so.... there might be different beliefs on that. I do think that Banff and Whistler could be great in april. Keep in mind that Lake Louise in bad snow years could be sketchy. In whistler-blackcomb you may have to offload, but by and large the alpine area up there is incredible, and roughly the size of all the banff resorts combined.

Being an east-coaster, late march/april is my favorite time to ski locally. By that time the crowds dissipate, and generally you no longer have to worry about the conditions therefore allowing you arbitrarily pick a date and go. The other advantage of right coast skiing in april: generally you don't have to worry about a blizzard during a 4 hour drive, making driving a bit comfortable and quicker.

 

[rfarren]

Everything I said above, of course, is based on a normal year in which there is snow left on the mountain in april. Sometimes in these neck of the woods that doesn't happen.

 

[Tony Crocker]

My response to Snowbird for Annmarief is exactly the same as for Whistler. It's great, but Snowbird is the type of area these kids will demand when they are older, so maybe someplace different now. Obviously I can't disagree much with Sharon as I've been witness to great family vacations at the Iron Blosam since 1996.

The commute aspect of Mammoth vs. Banff: Mammoth does have the tougher access with the 3 hour drive from Reno airport, but once you're there it's a daily 10 minute drive. I don't buy that it's easier to corral 3 kids onto public transit (waiting in lines, etc.) than to pack them into a rental car. And Mammoth has town-to-mountain shuttles also.

Patrick has seen Banff in its prime in 4 above average seasons, and Mammoth only in June/July. Year-in year-out Mammoth is more reliable in April. This is an argument for choosing Banff come Jan/Feb if it is having a good year. The modest snow averages at LL/Sunshine do mean there will be sketchy sectors in below average years.

Patrick has split his own time between LL and Sunshine; do not confine yourself by staying a whole week at Sunshine. You could divide the lodging time between Sunshine and Lake Louise though.

Opinion is always polarized about the rain issue at Whistler. It's based upon the observer's own experience, which (certainly including myself here) is never based upon enough data. I can say that rain all the way up is rare, but that's small consolation if it's raining halfway up and the top is closed for fog or avalanche danger. I've asked locals about frequency of alpine lift closures; they usually say about 10%. My guess is that weather substantially constrains Whistler skiing more like 15%. That would be one day out of a week on average, but we all know that weather persists in the very short term so I don't doubt that some unlucky people have had half or more of their Whistler ski weeks limited by adverse weather.

 

[Patrick]

The other advantage of right coast skiing in april: generally you don't have to worry about a blizzard during a 4 hour drive, making driving a bit comfortable and quicker.

It's rare, but it can happen, at least between here and Whiteface or MRG. :roll: :lol:

I don't buy that it's easier to corral 3 kids onto public transit (waiting in lines, etc.) than to pack them into a rental car.

I guess you didn't try it? :wink: It's not as bad as it sounds. Pretty convenient and not really a hastle.

Patrick has seen Banff in its prime in 4 above average seasons, and Mammoth only in June/July. Year-in year-out Mammoth is more reliable in April. This is an argument for choosing Banff come Jan/Feb if it is having a good year. The modest snow averages at LL/Sunshine do mean there will be sketchy sectors in below average years.

Sunshine would closed in June or July every year if they would be a market of it.

Patrick has split his own time between LL and Sunshine; do not confine yourself by staying a whole week at Sunshine. You could divide the lodging time between Sunshine and Lake Louise though.

I would agree, however staying out with the family on a short week could also make sense. Walking around the mountain when all the tourist/day tripper have skied down and left for the day. Those are the type of memories kids would type to love. Sliding on the hill after hours.

Opinion is always polarized about the rain issue at Whistler. It's based upon the observer's own experience, which (certainly including myself here) is never based upon enough data. I can say that rain all the way up is rare, but that's small consolation if it's raining halfway up and the top is closed for fog or avalanche danger.

My personal 6 DAYS experience. But my friend didn't call Pisstler for nothing, he lived in Whistler 3 or 4 years. Like I said, you can get some wonderful weather, but it can be pretty bad also.

I've asked locals about frequency of alpine lift closures; they usually say about 10%. My guess is that weather substantially constrains Whistler skiing more like 15%. That would be one day out of a week on average, but we all know that weather persists in the very short term so I don't doubt that some unlucky people have had half or more of their Whistler ski weeks limited by adverse weather.

Maybe only 15%, sure lifts are going to run, but it's pretty annoying when you can see shit in the entire alpine and it's rain or the snow is mush below treeline. This is, of course, my personal April experience, 6 days, only the last 2 hour were sunny and maybe two half days when you could actually ski where you were skiing. The rest, thick fog, wet and heavy powder, rain on half the mountain.

 

[Sharon]

Admin wrote:

As you know but others don't, I was with you that day. Gad 2 was never more than 5 minutes and that was the worst we encountered.

That was 2 years ago, and also 3 years ago (once where you were draggin the 3 of us to ski hardened surfaces and once with TEO, IIRC). This past year it was Pam, Jon and I...and Skidog joined us later on. You were absent that time. There were pretty good lines, 5+ minutes, but not much more, but as I recall, it snowed quite a bit and not everything was open yet, so we were confined to the Gad Valley for a good part of the day with the hoards. But that was only on the lift lines.

But, as I said, once out on the trails, we hardly encountered people where we went. There is so much to explore.

I think Snowbird is a no-brainer for the advanced ski family looking for a place to plant themselves for a week. It wouldn't be any more expensive than Vail (and probably cheaper late in the season) to stay at the Cliff Lodge, Iron Blosam or any of the other nearby properties. I'm particularly fond of the Cliff Lodge, mostly for location and the incredible atrium and the Persion rugs everwhere. It is definitely a place you want to be holed up during an interlodge.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I think Snowbird is a no-brainer for the advanced ski family looking for a place to plant themselves for a week.

If Annmarief is looking for a place to "settle in" for an annual spring break tradition, Snowbird is an obvious choice. If she wants to try different places, I'd save Snowbird for when the kids are a bit older. There will never be an issue of adequate coverage/full operation at Snowbird for spring break. However, anyone who follows these boards regularly will recall that April off-trail snow in LCC can often be in that awkward stage between powder and corn.

During my early March weeks I've often experienced longer lines than the 5 minutes quoted, notably Gad 2, Little Cloud and of course the tram. Since 2007 the new Peruvian is a very effective safety valve for the tram. Mid-April I agree lines will be short.