St. Moritz Trip Starts with Class 3+ Avalanche

[skiandgolfnut]

Be careful out there. Landed in Zurich at 630, was skiing Corviglia by 1130. Connected with our guide, tested all of our safety equipment, skid one warm up run and then ventured off piste for our first run. This area is just off the right of the Marguns lift. Guide went first, we crossed the slope at the top, our tracks top left, and planned on coming down far skiers left after a wide traverse just outside of existing tracks that the guide had made with my brother and hour earlier. Three of us followed per his instructions and made it down fine. Fourth one triggered this massive slide. Deployed his airbag and was buried and we could not find him for nearly seven minutes, luckily with his head above ground the entire time. Helicopter showed up, the whole bit. Needless to say this wasn’t the first impression I was going for for this group in the alps. Thankfully no one was hurt but this was I must say a bit of a traumatic experience. Guides can only do so much. The risk was 4 today and we all knew it. He seemed confident the area was safe. Very scary. Not to hijack this thread into another off piste safety thread but please stay safe out there everyone. Not yet sure what the lesson learned for me is yet but I am sure there will be many.

We actually were able to salvage the afternoon and had some spectacular runs. The new snow is cold and deep and there was plenty left just off the pistes as of 4 pm. Seems like we got quite lucky.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Arrival-day avalanche on your first run? That's spicy.

Not to hijack this thread into another off piste safety thread

Agreed, I'll leave that to the pros but curious how steep that is at the top?

 

[EMSC]

Landed in Zurich at 630, was skiing Corviglia by 1130

Guides can only do so much. The risk was 4 today and we all knew it. He seemed confident the area was safe.

That looks way spicier than a guide should be leading on on a 4 of 5 avi rating day. 3 of 5 maybe, but at 4 of 5 plenty of things are basically guaranteed to avalanche, especially at that kind of pitch.

Glad everyone walked/skied away from something like that.

 

[skiandgolfnut]

It didn’t seem too steep when I skid it. The guide was very hard on himself we were trying to console him, he said it was his first in 7 years of guiding here. Sounded like he needed to spend his entire night answering questions to his guide office, the national rescue service, and a whole host of people. Not fun. Regardless, he definitely shoulders a lot of the blame and the next few days should be interesting. Can’t say our confidence is sky high right now.

 

[EMSC]

Not fun. Regardless, he definitely shoulders a lot of the blame and the next few days should be interesting. Can’t say our confidence is sky high right now.

At least Euro snowpack usually stabilizes more quickly than the rocky mtns. I see that your avi danger listed for tomorrow is 'only' a 3 of 5.

Still requires some considerable local knowledge esp since it describes above treeline stability as very poor due mostly to: 1) weak older layers in shady areas and 2) wind storm slabs in bowls and certain ridgelines that have bonded poorly...

Stay safe.

 

[skiandgolfnut]

This was an hour earlier when they made the fresh tracks before bringing us back

https://imgur.com/a/pVmVzgr

 

[ChrisC]

An example of what could go wrong is 3 ft in Zermatt in April 2024 after an extended drought - 3 Dead, including 1 American. Story and video LINK: I am sure some US Ikon pass holders are potentially ready to repeat this in St. Moritz after this storm.

I did not mean for your group to recreate last Easter's Zermatt avalanche in St. Moritz.

Three of us followed per his instructions and made it down fine. Fourth one triggered this massive slide. Deployed his airbag and was buried and we could not find him for nearly seven minutes, luckily with his head above ground the entire time. Helicopter showed up, the whole bit. Needless to say this wasn’t the first impression I was going for for this group in the alps. Thankfully no one was hurt but this was I must say a bit of a traumatic experience. Guides can only do so much. The risk was 4 today and we all knew it.

I'm glad everyone is OK. That's an absolutely massive slab avalanche with a huge crown! Down to the ground! WTF! How deep is that crown? A few feet? - and width - OMG!

And it took 5 minutes+ to find your friend? Lucky/smart, he had an airbag to allow him to stay above the snow. Did they bag get punctured at all? Or remain intact?

St. Moritz functions like Colorado in that it's high, dry, and very cold at times during the winter - creating nasty hoar layers.

I really cannot believe he took you out on something like this after 100cm/1 meter+ of recent snow with an Avalanche Danger Level of 4. That's an "Off-piste is closed" rating - like maybe a powder few turns near the controlled pistes.
Avalanche Report for Alps https://avalanche.report/bulletin/latest

Even from afar, one knew there would be a very weak layer at the base of this new snowfall since there was no snow for weeks. This was likely at least a Class 3 Avalanche - if not Class 4. Maybe 3.5. https://avalanche.report/education/avalanche-sizes

Size 3: Large avalanche​

Potential damage​

• May bury and destroy cars, damage trucks, destroy small buildings and break a few trees.
• When skiers are caught by avalanches of this size, probability for severe consequences are very high.

Run out​

• May cross flat terrain (well below 30°) over a distance of less than 50 m

Typical dimensions​

• Length: several 100 m
• Volume: 10’000 m³

You likely made the Swiss Current Avalanche Map.

St. Moritz - Corviglia.
I assume one of these is your avalanche from today.

 

[ChrisC]

At least Euro snowpack usually stabilizes more quickly than the rocky mtns. I see that your avi danger listed for tomorrow is 'only' a 3 of 5.

Still requires some considerable local knowledge esp since it describes above treeline stability as very poor due mostly to: 1) weak older layers in shady areas and 2) wind storm slabs in bowls and certain ridgelines that have bonded poorly...

Stay safe.

St. Moritz snowfall is perhaps more similar to Colorado than anywhere else in the Alps. It is very high - 1800m / 6000 ft, and very cold since it is deep in the Alps, away from any maritime / warmer air that can impact the Westen Alps.

It's not far off from skiing 3 ft new in the San Juans of SW Colorado after 2-3 weeks of no snow.

I have not been in any avalanches in the Alps (except a very minor wet slide in Paradiski - La Plagne in April on a south-facing treed slope in the afternoon).

I have only witnessed a Class 3 or 4 avalanche in Alaska on a slope we did not ski. The guide triggered it, and we aborted the run.

Very lucky everything turned out OK.

Well, your group has a story to tell. It's the Alps, not North America's tree-lined, controlled slopes. Hopefully everyone adjusts.

Italy still has Risk 4 right over the border of St. Moritz. The Diavolezza/Lagalb areas practically are on the Swiss-Italian border.

 

[EMSC]

how steep that is at the top

Not sure I should use a slightly tilted video, but seems to be in the upper 30's to near 40 degrees where entry was made, with steeper above that. Not particularly steep for experts - skiing wise. But still well above the ~30 degree pitch recommended for high avi danger days.

one knew there would be a very weak layer at the base of this new snowfall since there was no snow for weeks. This was likely at least a Class 3 Avalanche - if not Class 4.

I've only seen a couple of class 4 (in the CONUS) ever and I doubt this was one from the pic. Wider, deeper fracture than a typical 2, so probably a 3?

I assume one of these is your avalanche from today.

Of the ones you circled the bottom right one is listed as "Person" caused (vs explosives). No detail given, of course any paperwork/reporting will be going in over next day or so (frequently nothing informative for a couple of days online for Colorado's CAIC either).

 

[skiandgolfnut]

I am the only one with an Ikon Pass

This was this guys first run ever skiing in Europe, ever skiing with an ABS bag. The odds really cant be believed. Luckily he is an excellent skier and very poised and the guide walked us through deploying the bag 5 minutes earlier. It all started so slowly that he was able to understand what was happening.

The bags were not punctured. In fact he needed to ski around with it for the next couple of runs with them deployed because we couldn’t deflate them. So he looked pretty ridiculous. It was also incredibly lucky that some how he didn’t lose his skis. He basically just skid until he couldn’t and was in cement from the neck down with his skis still on. We couldn’t hear him and he could hear us. The guide found him using his beacon in around 5 minutes. The snow was so deep when I tried to run over and help I kept sinking into 5+feet of snow. There was a loner that saw us head over and decided to follow us. No helmet, no equipment. He waited for all of us to go and luckily was able to stay above the slide. He was able to gesture after a few minutes that he could see my friends head sticking out. He skid down afterwords and told my friend that he essentially saved his life. Heavy stuff.

How it is that an experienced guide from a reputable school thought to take us on that on our first run on a day like today is pretty baffling. There was plenty of low hanging fruit just off the pistes lower down near randolins and enough to keep us busy all day. We are going to Corvatsch tomorrow, Im not sure what the groups appetite is going to look like after today. It is a 3 but we are permanently on notice that he might not have great judgement and/or sufficient local knowledge.

 

[ChrisC]

In Val d'Isere last Janaury 2024.....
My friends were pissed that we had to go through a high avalanche zone after skiing the Tour du Charvet (adv intermediate, easier off-piste zone).

I was playing guide - telling them to be aware of potential slides from above and stop behind rocks.

They were not happy about having to cross debris from an AM avalanche:

And the morning before, here is a photo of our run down/tracks on the Face du Charvet (expert off-piste zone). The guide wanted to take us down the couloir that slid on the looker's left/skier's right. Luckily, the avalanche released while we were debating, making the choice of the looker's right side of the photo the only way down: (pic is from across the Manchet Valley - top of Manchet chairlift)

 

[jamesdeluxe]

How it is that an experienced guide from a reputable school thought to take us on that on our first run on a day like today is pretty baffling. There was plenty of low hanging fruit just off the pistes lower down near randolins and enough to keep us busy all day.

This ^^, especially the part in bold. Corvatsch will be fun.

 

[EMSC]

How it is that an experienced guide from a reputable school thought to take us on that on our first run on a day like today is pretty baffling.

One of the hallmarks of many incidents is familiarity with the terrain/area. Humans tend to get very comfortable with areas they know; and perhaps have never seen slide before. But based on objective technical details it was too steep, on a shaded slope which were noted to have worse new snow bonding, etc...

Depends on the person, but your guide may have learned one of the most important lessons in avi biz. Never be comfortable anytime there is potential based on the objective facts. If his personality allows for it, it may turn him into a dramatically better guide for the long term.

 

[ChrisC]

Again, I'm glad everything tuned out OK.


However, Mountain Guides have been brought up on Manslaughter Charges in some European countries when clients die in avalanches:

Mountain Guides Accept Plea Bargain as they Face Charges of Manslaughter Over Avalanche Death of Skier they were Guiding - SnowBrains

Two mountain guides have accepted a plea bargain over the death of a British banker after an off-piste expedition in the Italian Alps turned to disaster, reports the Telegraph. Graeme Porteous was killed when fresh snow turned to liquid beneath him, sweeping him 100-feet down a mountain. During...

snowbrains.com

Val Thorens ski instructor charged with manslaughter

Prison sentences for off-piste avalanche incident

www.seevalthorens.com

Manslaughter investigation after English woman and her son die in avalanche on Mont Joly

In the aftermath of the fatal avalanche on the slopes of Mont Joly, the circumstances of the tragedy at an altitude of 2,300 metres are becoming clearer. The exact site of the avalanche is a long way from the ski lifts and has nothing to do with the edge of a slope, as some media have suggested...

www.chamonix.net

2 Backcountry Skiers Face Manslaughter Charges After Potentially Triggering Avalanche That Killed Mother and Son - SnowBrains

Following the avalanche in the Mont Blanc massif, France, that killed a British mother & son, a manslaughter investigation has been launched.

snowbrains.com

 

[Tony Crocker]

Recall the avalanches we witnessed or heard about at Val d'Isere in April 2018.

Avy rating in Fornet sector I think was 4. A series of 3 storms totaled 4 feet there from Retour de l'Est vs. about half that farther west. The one we saw was a convex rollover on our last guided run and I had noticed all day our guide was avoiding those.

From this report it's what's above where skianagolfnut was skiing that looks scary. I recall an OB run at Powder Mt. with former admin's crew where we were trying to distance ourselves from that kind of exposure.

But overall, considering how we were bad-mouthing the deficient St. Moritz snowpack last week and the size of that storm in an area with Colorado-type climatology, no surprise ChrisC and EMSC were all over this incident.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

From this report it's what's above where skiandgolfnut was skiing that looks scary.

Two by now points from the peanut gallery across the ocean:

• The clip that skiandgolfnut posted above is what many U.S. skiers dream of (or at least this U.S. skier) -- an above-treeline, non-technical, double-blue pitch, knee/thigh-deep fresh snow, clear blue skies, framed by an endless vista of the Graubünden region. I understand why someone would get "powder eyes" to go after that or provide his customers that experience.
• With only a tiny fraction of the guided time that several people here have, even I could see from the initial pic and then was confirmed by the clip that the area above them was steep enough to slide on a Level 4 day. Could the "WTF was this guide thinking?" be anything other than EMSC's comment about the heuristic trap of being overly familiar combined with pent-up demand following a long dry spell?

With that as a windup -- has anyone here ever questioned a local guide's decision with "that doesn't look good -- do you really think we should go there?" I know that I wouldn't. I'd put myself in the guide's place, who must be rolling his/her eyes: "ugh, another destination skier who thinks he knows more than me."

 

[Tony Crocker]

It is difficult to question a local guide, even for people as outspoken as Liz and I are.

I had skied Tour de Charvet in 2018 before doing it with James and was absolutely surprised that the ESF guide was going there so early in the morning with likely frozen conditions, but I did not question it when I surely should have.

In the literature about avalanche safety there are definitely warnings about avoiding groupthink or being overly deferential to the local expert.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

In the literature about avalanche safety there are definitely warnings about avoiding groupthink or being overly deferential to the local expert.

Makes sense but not easy to execute.

Tour de Charvet

I remember our Tour de Charvet being OK (considering the drought conditions) until the final section scratching across frozen avy debris. As mentioned previously, I was merely displeased but Tony was ready to sue the guide after that.

 

[berkshireskier]

It is difficult to question a local guide, even for people as outspoken as Liz and I are.

I had skied Tour de Charvet in 2018 before doing it with James and was absolutely surprised that the ESF guide was going there so early in the morning with likely frozen conditions, but I did not question it when I surely should have.

In the literature about avalanche safety there are definitely warnings about avoiding groupthink or being overly deferential to the local expert.

I would say this maxim applies to many different types of life experiences and not just skiing.

 

[skiandgolfnut]

After spending a lot of time today discussing things with the guide, his assessment is more or less in line with what you guys are saying. He ignored obvious signs and was blinded by wanting to show his clients a good time. In hindsight there were several red flags he overlooked. Really is as simple as that. I take a level of responsibility for the group being it was all of their first times and my spidey senses should have gone off a bit knowing it was a level 4 day. But ultimately as has been said, I am not the professional, I am not from here, there was no reasonable scenario where I was going to not follow him.

He was obviously a little more timid with us today which we were all fine with. Corvatsch is an excellent cruising mountain and we were able to get plenty of fresh snow in safer off piste areas.