Tesla and Elon Musk Evolution Since 2017

[Tony Crocker]

WaPo article is paywalled unless you turn off javascript.

I would absolutely ascribe the Tesla trade-ins and sales drop to backlash against Elon. The other EV manufacturers are not yet selling cars with charging ports usable at superchargers AFAIK. On the current trip we have seen a few non-Tesla EVs at superchargers using adapters though. Of course some people realize that if they rarely travel and nearly always charge at home like berkshireskier, they don't need the Tesla superchargers.

 

[berkshireskier]

WaPo article is paywalled unless you turn off javascript.

I would absolutely ascribe the Tesla trade-ins and sales drop to backlash against Elon. The other EV manufacturers are not yet selling cars with charging ports usable at superchargers AFAIK. On the current trip we have seen a few non-Tesla EVs at superchargers using adapters though. Of course some people realize that if they rarely travel and nearly always charge at home like berkshireskier, they don't need the Tesla superchargers.

Thanks for the reminder, Tony. I need to call my local Hyundai dealer to find out about the adapter for the Tesla superchargers. I understand they are now available for those people, like my wife, who own Hyundai electric cars (although we may not need it that much, it would still be nice to have).

 

[jamesdeluxe]

WaPo article is paywalled unless you turn off javascript.

I just sent WaPo a nasty e-mail to fix the gift articles. In the meantime, try this link.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Tesla superchargers

@Tony Crocker, I've asked before but can't remember the reply -- how much does it cost to "fill up" at superchargers?

 

[Tony Crocker]

how much does it cost to "fill up" at superchargers?

In urban areas it varies by time of use. Between noon and 10PM or so it will be over 50 cents/kWh but less than 30 cents in the midnight to 8AM range. Rural chargers near here in Colorado are 38 cents/kWh. I see some description that non-Tesla EVs pay 50 cents. Multiply by .3 for my car to convert to cents/mile, so 11-15 cents/mile. But I have free supercharging from a 2019 sales promotion, have saved $5,700 from that so far.

 

[Harvey]

I must be doing this wrong?

10 cents a mile x 250 mile range = $25
15 cents a mile x 250 mile range = $38

If so, somehow I thought it would be less than an ice car.
My CRV fills for less than $40 and goes much farther in normal driving.

 

[EMSC]

If so, somehow I thought it would be less than an ice car.

Superchargers have pretty outrageous per KW pricing that makes it similar to gas or slightly worse. It's way cheaper to charge EVs at home or oftentimes at work (I don't have one, but have followed the state of the tech over the years as well as know multiple owners). Has to be pretty profitable for the charging networks once installed.

 

[Tony Crocker]

For sake of argument, let's assume $3.50/gallon for gas, even though in California it's more like $4.50.

So a 35mpg car is 10 cents/mile and a 20 mpg car is 17.5 cents/mile. Any car with the performance and carrying capacity on my Model S is hard pressed to get as much as 20mpg.

My CRV fills for less than $40 and goes much farther in normal driving.

How far a car goes on a tank of gas doesn't tell you anything since tanks vary in size. My other car, 2011 Porsche Cayenne, does 500+ miles/tank on trips because it has a 26 gallon tank. But maybe a modern CRV gets close to 35mpg.

 

[Harvey]

How far a car goes on a tank of gas doesn't tell you anything since tanks vary in size. My other car, 2011 Porsche Cayenne, does 500+ miles/tank on trips because it has a 26 gallon tank. But maybe a modern CRV gets close to 35mpg.

I know this. Tank takes 12+ gallons. Never seen it take 13. Advertised as 14? It's a hybrid that fills for $30 something and goes 400+ miles. Summer in the suburbs 45+ mpg, drive to the mountains 38, winter to the mountains maybe 32. That 38 could be 40 if you drive more carefully. I'm setting it on cruise at 68 or 72.

NJ gas $2.95, (Upstate) NY gas $3.30 at this moment, or two weeks ago, last time I filled up in the north country.

Whatever, I guess it's close to an EV, if you can't charge at home. It surprises me. What is the cost to fill up at home?

How do you quantify the performance and carrying capacity? 0-60 time and cargo volume? Do you drive it hard?

 

[Tony Crocker]

It's way cheaper to charge EVs at home or oftentimes at work

Yes my home charging has been around 20 cents/kWh = 6 cents/mile. That's almost like a 60mpg car, and other states can be cheaper than what I pay, which is low for California since I have solar panels.

0-60 time

3.7 seconds as tested when my model came out in 2019.

cargo volume

I don't know a number. The area behind the back seats is slightly longer than in the Cayenne so easier for carrying skis. Large volume single items less so with hatchback vs. SUV. But there is an underneath compartment in the back, which held all of Liz' scuba gear when I drove to Florida in 2020. Then there is the frunk, used frequently for groceries, more convenient to unload in the garage.

 

[Harvey]

3.7 seconds as tested when my model came out in 2019.

I was asking how often you use that capability? How much does that affect your range?

60 mpg for what type of driving? I've seen in my hybrid that mountain cold (winter) is significantly lower.

Those numbers make the pluggin hybrid look ideal for at least one car in the household.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Those numbers make the pluggin hybrid look ideal for at least one car in the household.

I would contend that for some time an EV makes sense for one car in a two car household. Berkshireskier’s situation is illustrative. Even if the EV is never used for road trips:
1. It will probably account for the majority of household mileage.
2. You get the convenience factor of charging at home vs. short trips to gas stations.
3. Lower fuel costs charging at home.
4. Lower maintenance costs. For example I have yet to replace brake pads in 45K miles on the first EV and 90K on the current one.

The caveat is the above works for people who buy new cars and keep them a long time. Due to tech advances I wouldn’t recommend buying a used Tesla much earlier than my 2019. However the current Elon situation might be making used Tesla prices more attractive.

My son Adam calls plug-in hybrids a gateway drug to EV ownership. Many of them are cosmetic in terms of real world pure EV range. And having both a gas drivetrain and an adequate battery take up a lot of space. The Honda Clarity is probably the best one. I know two owners who claim 50 miles EV range. Avoid the Toyota Prius Prime, which I’ve read is almost impossible to keep in pure EV mode.

 

[Harvey]

My buddy has a Totoya pluggin, lives 10 miles from work, buys gas 2x year. Seems like a good compromise with cheap Kwhs and no range anxiety.

 

[EMSC]

buys gas 2x year.

Gasoline goes bad at about 6months time frame so he better buy at least 2 tanks a year minimum unless he wants it to go bad and muck up the entire engine. 3 or 4 tanks a year would be more ideal though.