The Red Flag for Andes 2008 is Removed

[Tony Crocker]

I haven't experienced Jackson in March, but I believe that Bob Peters from Epic isn't that negative about it.

He lives there and can cherry-pick it. Also I'll bet the usual range of Jackson conditions in March trains him for some of the nasty backcountry stuff he skis in the summer to keep his streak (should be over 100 months by now ) alive.

I'll admit humility. I'm a tourist, not a local, and try to find decent conditions on my trips. Since Patrick's ski ability can pass for a local, it probably matters less to him, except when lifts are actually shut down (thus the tree line comments). Given Bariloche's admitted base area snowfall of only 60 inches, I suspect decent off-piste tree skiing there is rare.

the only real places where advance commitment is really required is Portillo or LL.

I think Patrick is right about this. Fortunately these are the places skiing is most likely to be good if it hasn't snowed in a couple of weeks.

The lower altitude places farther south are best visited midwinter, just like their Cascade and Kootenay counterparts. Of course the world-class tree skiing is the big allure of the latter, so the South American areas (even those like Chillan and Pucon with fairly abundant snow) are more speculative due to storm shutdowns.

 

[Geoff]

FF points do have an opportunity cost, conservatively at least 1.5 cents per mile. So that's really a $1,500 trip. And those same points would buy 2 trips west in prime northern ski season.

I completely disagree with your analysis.

My flights this year would have cost me around $1300 if I'd just gone out and bought a coach ticket. Instead, I used 40,000 FT points on an American reduced mileage deal that kicks in every year on August 16th. I often use a Citibank promotion where I can do it for 32,500 FT points. You can usually get to Santiago and Buenos Aires using that promotion but Santiago wasn't offered this year when I wanted to go.
Here's the Citibank AAdvantage promo for Q42008:
https://www.citicards.com/cards/wv/copy ... eenID=1535

40,000 points for $1,300 in benefits is north of 3 cents per mile. I can't get that same kind of return on domestic tickets.

 

[Patrick]

I completely disagree with your analysis.
(...)
40,000 points for $1,300 in benefits is north of 3 cents per mile. I can't get that same kind of return on domestic tickets.

Of course, my analysis was on Aeroplan/Air Miles reward programs. For those, SA doesn't make much sense.

SA with Aeroplan (Air Canada program that is no longer own by AC) is 50000 pts versus 25000 pts in NA. As for Air Miles, it's more complex points structure.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I agree that 3+ cents / mile is an exceptional return on FF miles, especially these days when they can be difficult to use at all. The best I've done is 50,000 for Egypt in 2006 vs. about $1,350 I think.

In past years airfare to Santiago or Buenos Aires could be had in the southern winter for $650 - $850. With current fuel prices those fares are probably history.

 

[Patrick]

In past years airfare to Santiago or Buenos Aires could be had in the southern winter for $650 - $850. With current fuel prices those fares are probably history.

Airfare from YOW to SCL in 07 before taxes: $850
Airfare at one time in May or June: $875
Best fair paid in July (bought tix at approximately same time last year): $1040

Price after taxes and fees (*fuel surchange in 08): $1017 last year versus $1460 this year.

 

[Geoff]

From Boston, I don't think I've ever seen a fare below $900.00 to Santiago and anything below $1K required that you connect a second time somewhere in Latin America.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Sept. 30 season snowfalls:
Portillo 360 inches
Valle Nevado 211 inches

A slightly above average season, better than last year.

 

[Geoff]

Sept. 30 season snowfalls:
Portillo 360 inches
Valle Nevado 211 inches

A slightly above average season, better than last year.

The cliffs and cornice from the back side of el Colorado down to the Valle Nevado access road looked like they had north of 100" of base. The top of the high speed quad also had a very deep base. That 211" was probably measured at the hotel complex. Nevados de Chillan had a ton of snow at the top but far less on the lower part of the mountain. My conclusion is that those reported total snowfall numbers don't mean squat since I only care about how much snow they get on the parts of the hill where I ski.

 

[Tony Crocker]

We have to make do with the limited stats provided. And in South America we probably have less confidence in their accuracy. Nonetheless the Valle Nevado hotel complex is at 9,900 while the road pickups are 1,000 feet lower and the top of El Colorado is 10,700. Having been there, I do not doubt Geoff's observations, which are likely due to wind deposition. The back side of El Colorado down to the Valle Nevado access road is leeward of prevailing wind and was well covered when I was there despite its unappetizing snow surface. Yet there was potentially interesting terrain at 11,000+ at La Parva and off Tres Puntas that had lost coverage due to wind exposure.

I am still curious how often Geoff is able to ski the back side of El Colorado, given the tedious logistics. Does he hire a driver for the day like the TGR poster Patrick referenced? Or does his ski group have to take turns running the shuttle in a car rental? How many runs per day back there when it's good?

If we ever get snow stats for Chillan, it sounds like they will not be too helpful. From what Geoff says, base area snowfall is not that great, and it's unlikely there is a safe and accessible place to measure higher up. Unfortunate, because the Chillan/Pucon climate zone is the missing piece of the puzzle as far as getting a good handle on South American snow. It should be like Oregon/Washington Cascades, but it would be nice to have some evidence to back up that theory.

 

[Geoff]

I am still curious how often Geoff is able to ski the back side of El Colorado, given the tedious logistics. Does he hire a driver for the day like the TGR poster Patrick referenced? Or does his ski group have to take turns running the shuttle in a car rental? How many runs per day back there when it's good?

I've probably done 20 or so runs down to the Valle Nevado access road over the years. I've been with people who had rented a car on two trips. One was a 4wd pickup truck. The other was a Kia diesel minivan. We've hired one of the drivers who was hanging out waiting for their day trip fare to finish skiing for the day. You can get to the terrain by taking the Valle Nevado fixed grip quad, staying high, and picking up the el Colorado T-bar up the back side. No way you can do a lap in less than an hour since it's several miles down the road. I've never gotten in more than 3 or 4 runs in a day.