Timberline, Mt. Hood, OR - 6/23/06

[Patrick]

From my shopping around, I found that plane tickets Ottawa-Portland were around $500 CDN (all taxes incl.).

Frank, your price doesn't included car rental?

 

[Frankontour]

From my shopping around, I found that plane tickets Ottawa-Portland were around $500 CDN (all taxes incl.).

Frank, your price doesn't included car rental?

Not the car, but the lodging is included, was it in your 500$ deal ? (If I count the fuel + using car to get in Ottawa, it's probably not really more interesting)

For the car, we should have it for about $300 US, (185$ basic + all the taxes and other stuff)

Are you back in Canada Pat ?

 

[Patrick]

Are you back in Canada Pat ?

Back 26 hours ago. I was back at work, that was another bad call on my part. :lol:

From my shopping around, I found that plane tickets Ottawa-Portland were around $500 CDN (all taxes incl.).

Frank, your price doesn't included car rental?

Not the car, but the lodging is included, was it in your 500$ deal ? (If I count the fuel + using car to get in Ottawa, it's probably not really more interesting)

For the car, we should have it for about $300 US, (185$ basic + all the taxes and other stuff)

The $500 is just the plane ticket, I pretty sure the price would be similar leaving from Montreal. Plane ticket prices were similar when I was looking for myself from Ottawa and someone else from Montreal.

I just looked on aircanada.com and the cheapest I found around your dates was $506 (taxes non incl). The price I quoted was for around late August.

Car rental? I paid $202 US (all taxes) for 9/10 days in Vegas. Check out expedia.ca or/and destina.ca.

 

[Admin]

Frank, is Christophe >=25 years old? I'm pretty sure you're not. If he is, I can get you into a compact (Ford Focus, etc.) for $182.09 per week including Tax, Airport concession fee recovery, Vehicle license fee recovery, etc. If you need something bigger, a full-size (Taurus, Grand Prix, etc.) would be $206.59 including all taxes and fees for a week. If you're interested, drop me an email and I'll give you the rate code and company info (it's one of the big 3 rental companies, and they're right on site at the airport terminal in Portland).

Oh, and Patrick, I'd expect car rentals to be cheaper in Vegas than Portland.

Finally, we have a Red Lion here in SLC and it's supposed to be decent, although I've never stayed there. We've put business visitors up there ourselves. It's 55 miles (88.5 km) from there to Timberline's base lodge. Streets and Trips estimates it as an hour, but I'd tack on 15 minutes to get through Gresham.

 

[Frankontour]

Glad to see that you're back home Pat !

I guess it was hard to get back at work after a trip like that !

Don't you worry Marc, I'm 25, and Chris is 32 so this is not a problem. However, the car is already reserved, but I may tell this to Chris (in case it's possible to cancel... I'm not really used with reservations of travels or cars), as it could be less expensive (Expedia says that after taxes and fees, it should be around 230$ (unlimited distance) in our case, but we wouldn't be surprised if some other fees were charged to us...

Thanks for the info for the distance and the pics... they have a much greater view at Portland than us at Mtl with the Mt Royal ! :lol:

 

[Patrick]

Thanks for the info for the distance and the pics... they have a much greater view at Portland than us at Mtl with the Mt Royal ! :lol:

On a clear day (no smog) you can see Sutton, the Adirondack and Mansfield from the top of Mount Royal. I even believe that you can make out the trails on Madonna (smuggs), however I'm not sure about that one, I think Lucky Luke told me that one.

I'd expect car rentals to be cheaper in Vegas than Portland.

Price variation in Vegas is important. The price was for a midsize and 10 days. The first time I research, I had found something for $180CDN, but the next day, the cheapest was up to $199US (Same company and same car).

 

[Frankontour]

We also see clearly enough Camel's Hump

But if we're not on the mountain, the view is... humm... not really spectacular

 

[Admin]

Don't you worry Marc, I'm 25, and Chris is 32 so this is not a problem. However, the car is already reserved, but I may tell this to Chris (in case it's possible to cancel... I'm not really used with reservations of travels or cars), as it could be less expensive (Expedia says that after taxes and fees, it should be around 230$ (unlimited distance) in our case, but we wouldn't be surprised if some other fees were charged to us...

Unless booked as part of a package through Expedia or something, car rentals are generally not charged, even if you just don't show up. If you need that discount code, just let me know via email. And yes, the rates that I looked up include unlimited mileage. The estimated total charges I quoted above were right on the money, down to the penny, when I rented from them in Portland in June.

 

[ChrisC]

As a Northwestener for multiple years, I think Whistler Blackcomb is a much better destination. Cheap lodging - think hot tubs, OZ party guys, just fun, lakes, glaciers, etc.

I mapped out typical closures for Timberline in July.

You really need to mix this trip up with Hood River -- a super fun wind-surfing town on the Columbia. It rocks! Hard!

Portland is a good town. But...it's small. It's no Seattle or San Francisco.

Timberline is over-rated.

 

[Patrick]

As a Northwestener for multiple years, I think Whistler Blackcomb is a much better destination. Cheap lodging - think hot tubs, OZ party guys, just fun, lakes, glaciers, etc.

You're probably right (never been to Hood), however Mt. Hood is the only game in town (Lift-service in North America) after July 31.

 

[Admin]

You're probably right (never been to Hood), however Mt. Hood is the only game in town (Lift-service in North America) after July 31.

And beyond that, ChrisC, have you seen some of the desperation photos posted here by Easterners over the years? Even that little bit of Hood is going to feel fabulous to those guys!! :wink:

Even though large areas on ChrisC's edited photo are marked off for racing lanes, I found that much of that area was still accessible to us as not all teams were on the mountain at the same time, and no one had anything to say about us using those areas when they weren't otherwise in use. Even the marketing director tagged along with me through those areas for a few hours without so much as saying a word against my choice of lines, and he was letting me lead. Furthermore, my observations -- backed up by the marketing director's comments -- is that the ski teams are out on the hill until 10 or 10:30, then the snowboard camps take over for the rest of the day. By noon, just about everything had been removed from upper Palmer, the boarders were playing on the terrain park hits, and we had wide-open free reign of the area that had been occupied by gates.

Even a jaded now-Utah resident like me had a blast. The Kid, perhaps the most jaded soul of all, did too.

 

[Patrick]

And beyond that, ChrisC, have you seen some of the desperation photos posted here by Easterners over the years? Even that little bit of Hood is going to feel fabulous to those guys!! :wink:.

I hope you're not talking about me? :x :lol:

I don't post any pictures, remember? :lol: :wink:

 

[Admin]

I hope you're not talking about me? :x :lol:

I'm thinking more along the lines of stuff like this:

and this:

and this:

and this:

Just to use the past couple of months or so as an example...

 

[Patrick]

I hope you're not talking about me? :x :lol:

I'm thinking more along the lines of stuff like this:

That last pictures looks like Fascination at Mammoth on July 4th. :lol: Yes, I skied it... #-o :lol: Actually, it was only the bottom that required walking. :roll:

 

[Tony Crocker]

I am in general agreement with ChrisC's opinion of Timberline. By late August the area will bear little resemblance to what admin enjoyed in June.

But given Patrick's quest for a 12-month season and where he lives it makes sense. He got October in the East, which is now no more than a 1/5 chance. Combine with the 1/3 chance of Mammoth for July means only 1/15 chance of both in the same season. So he only has to go to Timberline one trip to get the 12 months.

The mistake Patrick made IMHO was bringing his family for the Portland/Timberline trip instead of Vegas/Death Valley/Mammoth/Yosemite.

Yes you should go check out the windsurfers at Hood River. But in terms of trying it yourself windsurfing there would be like shoving a beginning skier over the edge of Hangman's.

 

[Patrick]

The mistake Patrick made IMHO was bringing his family for the Portland/Timberline trip instead of Vegas/Death Valley/Mammoth/Yosemite.

I think that you're probably right, however it wasn't my mistake. :roll: As for the family coming out West, I'm not taking anything for granted. I'm actually reading some stuff on Oregon/Washington and the combo might be pretty also be good for a two-week trip. Less driving than my California treak and no 100+F temps. I first of all need to be 100% sure that lift are going to be running in September. Stay tuned.

Yes you should go check out the windsurfers at Hood River. But in terms of trying it yourself windsurfing there would be like shoving a beginning skier over the edge of Hangman's.

I totally agree...not even thinking about it.

 

[Admin]

Yes you should go check out the windsurfers at Hood River. But in terms of trying it yourself windsurfing there would be like shoving a beginning skier over the edge of Hangman's.

As someone who actually sailboards, unlike the author of that comment :wink: , I have to respectfully disagree, but then again I'm not talking about throwing someone into the main line of the Columbia in the Gorge on a shortboard. In that respect, I agree with you.

(That's a typically windy day in The Gorge -- check out that sail twist spilling off the excess wind! Only beginners with a suicide wish need apply.)

Rather, there are a couple of large, sheltered coves in Hood River where beginners are taught. The best known of these is The Hook.

(Beginners at The Hook)

And unlike July 4th weekend when I tried in vain to get The Kid up on some of my gear in a light breeze at Bear Lake (Utah), they have the right instruction and the right equipment to teach a never-ever: big, floaty boards, and a dryland simulator.

What's a dryland simulator, you ask? It's a board mounted on a pedestal that can rotate 360 degrees.

Thus you get the feel of uphauling, counterbalancing the pull of the wind on the sail, and even steering the board before even getting your big toe wet. No water, no instability. Spend an hour on one of those, like I did in 1991 in Florida for my first time, and you'll be put-putting across the water on your first day.

Outfits providing beginner lessons in Hood River include:
http://www.hoodriverwaterplay.com/level1.htm
http://www.bigwinds.com/lessons/
http://www.brianswindsurfing.com/bws_wlessons.htm

Learning to windsurf in Hood River:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/ ... _106141744

IMHO it's the only reasonable way to learn sailboarding, and frankly the widespread lack of such instructional opportunities (along with the insane cost -- you think skiing's expensive??!!) is why sailboarding never truly caught on in this country. Most folks first tried sailboarding the hard way, by trying out someone else's gear at a lake somewhere, and got so frustrated that they never picked up a set of booms again. In fact, I can't think of a better place to learn the fundamentals of the sport than in Hood River, where you'll find skilled instructors, proper learning equipment, consistent wind and sheltered water. Nowhere else in the world will you find that combination in such prolific quantities.

My only regret is that I've gotten away from it somewhat. In the early 1990s I was very active in the sport and in the Adirondack Boardsailing Club (ABC). Back in those days of text-only web browsers (can you say "Lynx"? I'm sure you can!) I actually designed a club website and Northeastern Site Guide for the web, which still exists at http://www.abcsail.org/, <shamless bragging> even earning myself a U.S. Windsurfing Association Sportsmanship Award for that web work that I still keep mounted on the wall above my desk </shameless bragging>. It was one of sailboarding's very first web sites (and, BTW, FTO was one of skiing's very first web sites in 1994).

After re-marrying in the mid 1990s, though, I wanted to get my family involved in my love of sailing and moved on to boats instead, starting with a 20-footer in Lake Champlain and moving up through a 25 to a 34 in Florida. My sailboarding equipment started gathering dust in the garage. A direct hit from a lightning bolt a mile off the coast of St. Pete, however, gave my wife a new religion and she sold the Drive South after she spent six weeks in drydock undergoing lightning damage repairs (the boat, not the wife :wink: ).

While I don't have any photos of the Drive South handy, this Hunter 34 is the same year, make and model and is outfitted almost identically to how our vessel was, although our bimini was nicer, we had a full dodger, and our pedestal instruments were more comprehensive. She had a Yanmar diesel, central a/c, hot and cold pressure water, an alcohol stove and oven, electric refrigeration and freezer, a full nav station, and berths for 7. With all lines running aft to the cockpit and an electronic autohelm, single-handing her was a piece of cake. Gawd, I miss that boat.

But, I digress...

After selling our boat, I never really picked up the sailboards again until this summer. Winds for windsurfing (I need a good 15 knots to be planing and happy) were always crappy for 9 months a year in Florida, and in New York for 18 months in 2003-04 the water was cold and I only had a two-seat convertible there -- none too user-friendly for getting gear from home to the water.

However, this summer I finally pulled the gear out of the garage for July 4th weekend at Bear Lake. All Saturday I sat around the lake waiting in vain for a breeze to kick in, but around 7 pm a thunderstorm passed by just to our north and the winds began to howl. We had two sun awnings set up at camp, one on the beach and one next to our tents, and both got destroyed, the wind was that strong. Waves came up, too, and dragged the anchors of both jet skis such that we had to hold them back away from washing onto the beach. What did I do? Of course -- I quickly rigged a Neil Pryde 6.0, grabbed my Bic Astro Rock (in the good ol' days I would've grabbed my Seatrend but I knew I'd be rusty and I sure didn't feel like heading out onto that lake aboard a sinker) and headed for the water.

What happened, though, was a disappointment. Contrary to my hopes and expectations, windsurfing is not like riding a bike, especially waterstarting in gusty winds and four-foot wind chop. I got thrashed...totally beat up, and with a good knowledge of what Bear Lake water tastes like...and it took me a good three days to recover physically. But it gave me the taste to sail again, and the desire to regain my lost skills. I'll be out again before long.

It's the only sport that's ever given me the same rush that skiing does, and the season nicely counterbalances ski season. When you get up on a plane, in the harness, and back in the straps, it's a real trip, and when you finally master the holy grail of a carved jibe (which, admittedly, I never did) it's got to be just like carving a high-g arc on skis.

OK, now I'll stop rambling and waxing poetic. Can you tell that I love that sport?

 

[jasoncapecod]

It's the only sport that's ever given me the same rush that skiing does, and the season nicely counterbalances ski season. When you get up on a plane, in the harness, and back in the straps, it's a real trip, and when you finally master the holy grail of a carved jibe (which, admittedly, I never did) it's got to be just like carving a high-g arc on skis.

That say's it all when it comes to windsurfing..
A 5.6 flat water day at Kalmus (capecod) is almost a religous experience.
Thinking about a perfect high speed jibe , is giving goose bumps as i write this.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I should have known better what I was stepping into with that windsurfing comment.

One of my old ski partners Dave Fairhall moved to SoCal from Canada in 1987 and was here for a decade. He immediately took up windsurfing in the summers, and by 1992 he was windsurfing 50 days a year, including destination trips to Maui, Margarita Island and the Gorge, and skiing less than 10. So I have observed firsthand that windsurfing can be as addictive as skiing. My son Adam's best friend in high school is at U.C. Berkeley now and has become similarly addicted.

Windsurfing has high equipment costs, but for someone well located (like Berkeley) the daily marginal cost is practically zero. That's part of why Dave (with a non-athletic wife) switched sports. It cost less money and he would be gone from the house half a day at a time (the thermal winds at Cabrillo Beach are only strong from about 2-6PM) and rarely for whole weekends or extended trips like me with skiing.

Obviously I was influenced to try windsurfing as a summer sport, particularly since my ex-wife had a sailing background. But it was too tough for me and too late in life for her. I can "put-put across the water" fine, but as for "getting up on a plane, in the harness, and back in the straps", I can occasionally manage that for 30 seconds or so at a time before crashing if I'm lucky. After an hour or two I'm beat.

Windsurfing has an extremely tough learning curve (to do the fun stuff, like waterstarting, riding a short board, jibing) and demands intense commitment (20-30 days a year?) to make any progress IMHO. I was looking for a second sport where I could just be an intermediate (we all know tons of skiers like that) and enjoy myself a few times a year. But in my opinion there's no such thing as an intermediate windsurfer. They're either totally committed or they give it up.

I should have known my Hood River comment was off base, because Adam and I actually took a couple of waterstart lessons in Maui back in 2000. It was no surprise the 15-year-old did better than I despite my having dabbled at the sport 2-3 days a year since 1987. So he might have been able to get somewhere on 10-15 days a year. But he ended up in San Diego and took up surfing instead, logical since there's lots of surfing beaches but wind is very mild down there as in most of SoCal.

So I would agree that Hood River, like Maui, is probably great a place to get high quality instruction. But you won't experience many rewards unless you decide to pursue it further when you get home. And I suspect Morgane is still a bit young even if she does have the athletic talent.

 

[Admin]

Tony, those comments are all spot-on, IMO.

Yep, add the steep learning curve to my previous comments that a lack of consistent quality instruction and a high equipment cost kept the sport from blossoming in the U.S. As for that cost, non-sailors should understand that you use different sized boards and different sized sails for different wind and water conditions. That means a typical kit for a committed sailboarder looks something like this:

1. Three or so boards at avg. $1200 each
2. Five or so sails at avg. $500 each
3. Two or so masts at avg. $350 each
4. Two or so booms at avg. $250 each
5. Mast bases, fins, etc. total approx. $600
6. Wetsuit, harness, booties, gloves, etc. total approx. $350

So, you're looking at an equipment outlay of approx. $8250 for a committed sailboarder. You can of course save a good chunk of change by purchasing most of that gear used, as I did, but these days there's just not much of a used market outside of places like Hood River, Kalmus, Hatteras or Maui simply because participation in the sport has dwindled outside of these traditional epicenters.