travel info & silverton photos!

[nic_okcomputer]

Hi, i'm creating this topic to have your opinions about my trip next winter....
But first here's a link to zoneski.com french forum with photos from Silverton beginning of march 07 (including a scan of the official map you can find there but can't find on their own site!), the other photos are from Solitude and Snowbird....

http://forums.zoneski.com/index.php?sho ... entry58758

So i'm planning a roadtrip with my little brother starting during christmas....so the roadtrip is not realy about the fun of it but because i'll be one full month in Creston, BC starting mid-january and i'm planning skiing whitewater, red, fernie during this month and did'nt want to rent a car.... AND I want to avoid the Christmas crowds as much as possible.....
So basically i have 3 full weeks ! We've been to Fernie, Whitewater, KH, LL in december 2005 (and had realy wet snow at whitewater, too much people at fernie and nice conditions at LL, KH was incredible for 1/3 of the mountain, huge bowls, big smile and frightened face for my 12 years old brother BUT 2/3 of lower mountain with only the zigzag slope with rocks and ice seriously all the way down which is 800m of vertical.....)
So since i discovered this past winter magical utah and colorado (i'm more the solitude/powder mountain kind, want to hike for the turns, don't care doing 6-7 strenous runs a day if it's powder....)
My other consideration is relatively cheap tickets/accomodation which is why we're going to whistler only 2-3 days and a lot od days in SLC area (where i found studio 6 like 313$ for 8 days with a kitchen...hard to beat in whistler!!! even at the HI hostle!)

So here's the plan, my big question is about the crowds during the christmas week, after 1rst of january i guess it's going to be better....so is Targhee/JH and SLC (solitude, powder mountain) a good choice???? i know there's crowds everywhere but knowing that during spring break this year solitude was so magical (honeycomb far end and far up at least!!!) i'd like to think that you can hike a bit and still have powder (which is not easy at snowbird whithout avy kit and knowledge....i like the controled area....)
saturday 22 of december Québec City-----Chicago
sunday 23 Chicago----Somwhere in Nebraska, Omaha?
monday 24 Nebraska-----Briggs
tuesday 25 Grand Targhee
wednesday 26 Grand Targhee
thursday 27 Grand Targhee (or rest!)
friday 28 Grand Targhee (Jackson Hole?) Drive to SLC after day
saturday 29 Solitude
sunday 30 Rest
monday 31 Solitude
tuesday 1 Snowbird
wednesday 2 Powder Mountain
thursday 3 Solitude
friday 4 Solitude
saturday 5 Driving up to near Seattle
sunday 6 Crystal (mainly for the backcountry areas that look nice!)
monday 7 Crystal---------Drive to Vancouver
tuesday 8 Vancouver visit------drive to Whistler
wednesday 9 Whistler
thursday 10 Whistler
friday 11 Whistler (or rest)
saturday 12 Brother taking the plane back from Vancouver--- I drive to rossland
sunday 13 Red Mountain --- Drive to Creston
monday 14 Work begin in Creston!!!


Thanks for your help!
Nicolas

 

[Admin]

Holy crap! Man, you like to plan everything out, and well in advance, too, don't you? :lol:

Around here, Solitude and PowMow would be good holiday choices. So would Targhee. But when you're in a place like SLC, though, why not just base your choices on the neige du jour? That's the beauty of having 10 ski areas within 75 minutes of town. If the snow's good and fresh, why not ski someplace like Powder Mountain or Snowbasin where it stays good for a shorter time? If it's been a while since new snow fell hit up Alta or Snowbird.

Sounds like an epic trip in any event. Pop in here as the date approaches and we can hook up for a few runs -- we'll do our best to show you the goods.

 

[nic_okcomputer]

Hey Admin! Thanks for the answer, and yep i like to plan ahead but i'm realy flexible about the final destinaions depending on the early season (but as you see i chose only usually good resorts for early season....) of course...if it's dumping in Targhee the day i'm supposed to go to SLC i'll try to stay where the snow is....i just needed to make an estimation of the cost for this travel, and of course i ended up thinking about all those cool mountains....I probably just wanted a local view about the christmas period down there !!!
As i did last winter i'll be chosing SLC area when i'll be there....i'll probably try like last winter through travelocity the superpass though (it was 90$ for 3 days but you had to buy before january....30$ a day for those resorts is amazing deal you can't find anywhere for that quality and it can cost so less when you think a bit before! i always make people laugh at my cost prevision on the net but i'm always right on! nobody believed that i could do 7 days of skiing in SLC for less than 1000$ CA or say 900$ US including round-trip airfaire from montreal/burlington....)

By the way, you're making me change my mind about utah skiers!!! i did 2 travels there last winter and one of them i was alone....
one day at snowbird i think i was on upper tiggertail following a traverse that i didn't realy know where it was going (but was still inbound of course!), so i'm a 25 snowboarder and there come this 20 something snowboard girl, alone, and i asked her if i could join her over where she was heading because it was my first time there....she told me that she was heading to her secret stash and to not follow her! and let me tell you i have that french accent so it was sure i wasn't a local that would spoil her terrain!
second time, i was on mineral basin lift, by 10am everything was eaten and i asked this cool-looking beard snowboarder where i could still find some freshies on the mountain (of course i introduced myself before and did'nt come up with that first!!!) and he litteraly told me it would cost me cash or marijuana!!! i started to laugh and realized he was so damn serious! i didn't even want to follow him, i just asked him a naive question!!!
of course i found those situations funny and met some realy nice people from utah!
cheers!
nicolas

 

[Admin]

Sounds like you met up with a couple of real losers - sorry to hear that. I've never shared directions to any specific spots on the Internet, but I'll happily take anyone in person. Nothing's terribly secret around here, but knowing where to go (aspect, sun exposure, wind loading, etc.), and when to go there, is key. Being able to share those spots in person allows the tour guide to observe the receipient's joy and appreciation first-hand. :wink:

 

[Patrick]

We'll in advanced is right.

It looks like this plan is very ambitious. Almost 3 weeks of skiing, a lot of driving. Quebec City to Chicago on December 22. :shock:

I didn't have time to look and think about the details of this trip (I'm at work now :roll: ), but one thing stands out....why so many days at Targhee???

 

[Tony Crocker]

I think I would go to SLC before Jackson/Targhee. Your skiing is going to start Dec. 25-26, worst possible time for crowds/cost. SLC is a city; you should be to scrounge a cheap hotel somewhere. And you also have the places like Powder Mt/Snowbasin/Solitude for crowd avoidance.

Jackson has an antiquated lift system, likely subject to long liftlines during peak holidays. Also 2007-08 is the only season with no ski patrol tram access for control work. I'd avoid before Jan. 1. I'm not sure how Targhee does during holidays. There's a top-to-bottom HSQ, might track out fairly quickly, especially if people are fleeing Jackson due to crowd or coverage issues. Stay in tune with current reports. Despite the above negative comments, Jackson is a spectacular mountain when conditions are good, and you won't want to miss it if it's like 2005-06.

Crystal and its backcountry are clearly the type terrain you like. Best spots in Southback are 20-30 minute hike/traverse on skis. Could be tough on a board unless you have a splitboard.

Whistler and Blackcomb have plenty that you will like. Places that big always have underutilized sectors. And Flute Bowl has no lift but is avy controlled.

I would avoid advance hotel commitment as much as possible, except maybe Whistler at the end. Since you're willing to do a lot of driving your overall plan actually makes sense to me. But we could get some weird weather pattern and you might then want to go to somewhere in Colorado or the Sierra if that's where the best snow is.

From Creston you also have Schweitzer and the Big Mountain (from Cranbrook) just across the border to check out while you're living there.

 

[nic_okcomputer]

Thanks guys for your help!
I did'nt consider the targhee lifts situation and the jackson hole unique lifts potential problems this year....
So IF early season is good, i'll start with SLC area from 25 to 2nd of january then 3 days (instead of 4) for targhee/jackson hole after the christmas week so it should be quieter i guess....then maybe 1 more day for crystal (and i may add baker if it's weekend) and the only certitude is the final that will be at whistler! looks a promising 3 weeks! The only reason why i putted 4 days for targhee was related to the top 10 early season made by tony and the relative low position of my favorite slc (solitude) but of course i know everything can change from year to year (execpt targhee is almost always well covered by christmas)
i'll make resarvation only to places where i can cancel 24h prior so if it's dumping somewhere i'll follow the snow (but will hope slc is the good place because it's the absolute cheapeast combination for tickets and lodging and probably the best for the snow....)
as for the driving, i did the québec city-chicago trip in one day two times (it's 16 hours of big highways might do it in 2 days just to make my little brother discover chicago) and chicago-denver the other day! so from québec city you can be in denver in 2 days if you realy want (and the weather wants it! )

Cheers!
Nicolas

 

[Tony Crocker]

In the overall universe of holiday skiing Snowbird and Solitude would rate far above most areas with their abundant snow. But Snowbird is a steep and rocky mountain that needs about a 50-inch base to ski well. The Christmas (1986-87) that I trashed some skis on Snowbird's reported 38 inch base I was told that Solitude was also marginal. Due to layout and higher base elevations Alta and Brighton ski quite well on 3-4 feet. Jackson and Targhee present a similar analogy in early season coverage requirements. Most seasons Snowbird, Solitude and Jackson have the adequate base by Christmas, but the margin for error is better at Alta, Brighton and Targhee.

 

[ChrisC]

Like your trip.

My only piece of advice is concerning Grand Targhee. I think 4 days is a lot there unless you trek over to Jackson. Targhee gets great snow, coverage is generally good but...

It's a rather flat place. It's got wide open spaces, but overall is mostly intermediate. I think it's as flat as Timerline, Keystone, Northstar, etc... Unless you have fresh snow, it's quite boring.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I think it's as flat as Timberline, Keystone, Northstar, etc

Not really. At those places there are large amounts of flat terrain you actually can't ski on powder days because you will get stuck. Targhee is mostly a consistent intermediate pitch; just not much real steeps. So you'll like it if there's fresh snow, but want to move on after a day or two otherwise. I suspect Targhee's flat impression comes from the contrast with Jackson, which most people ski on the same trip.

 

[ChrisC]

I think it's as flat as Timberline, Keystone, Northstar, etc

Not really. At those places there are large amounts of flat terrain you actually can't ski on powder days because you will get stuck. Targhee is mostly a consistent intermediate pitch; just not much real steeps. So you'll like it if there's fresh snow, but want to move on after a day or two otherwise. I suspect Targhee's flat impression comes from the contrast with Jackson, which most people ski on the same trip.

I do think Targhee is in the bottom 20% of destination Western ski resorts (assume 50 or so) when it comes to overall pitch/steeps.

There are a few nice pitches - Mary's Nipple, steeps coming off Sacajawea between cliffs, otherwise.....

I always viewed Targhee as an add-on to Jackson and not really a destination in itself. It could be. But not really. It's great when a front dumps 12"+ on Targhee and about 4-6" on Jackson. It's frontside/backside of the Tetons.

Anyways, if this is into really hiking and cheap digs, I might even suggest - Bridger Bowl. Bozeman is cheap, fun...and Bridger has the ridge (oh, but you need a transceiver...$$)...maye not the best idea. But it's on 90 on the way to Seattle.

And if in Seattle (not a cheap hotel town), Alpental has really great sidecountry that the patrol will show you around on the weekdays.

Overall, if you got 3-4 weeks, go to the snow and keep reservations flexible.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Even more than snowfall, discussion of terrain must be about the overall distribution, not the average or how much steep terrain there is. I like the steeps as much as anyone, but for powder what you're interested in how much terrain is there that's steep enough for powder. Mt. Bachelor and Powder Mt. are other examples like Targhee where the true steeps are minimal but most of the terrain is perfectly adequate for powder. Last February admin pointed out the virtues of what he calls "low angle powder," and I applied those lessons quite well at some Solitude stashes.

I suspect I'll get some support for this from our eastern friends. There's hardly anything lift served in the east that's truly steep by western standards. Yet reports and pics from Riverc0il, powderfreak, etc. demonstrate the quality of powder skiing at places like Jay, Stowe, MRG.

 

[nic_okcomputer]

Hey thanks everyone for the comments, it's realy interesting! I'd like to notice that i chose targhee for the first 4 days based on the extremely good reliability during early season....and it included at least 1 day at jackson...but with the comments by tony on the lift situation especially during christmas at both targhee and jackson hole, i changed a bit.... (of course i'll make the final decision during the early season progression...that would be my ideal itinary but if there's no snow there i'll go somewhere else, all my reservation as i said will be 24hours cancelable, but for that i need places with some motel that allows that....which is the case for SLC, jackson, seattle, but evidently not at whistler!)
i'll also keep in mind the alpental recommandation but it looks like you realy need the avi kit.....i was ok with that at silverton but i did'nt realy took any avi class yet (i've read books)so i'll wait, it's on my 'to do' list when i'll be in creston for january/february to hit a week-end class at whitewater.....
so here's the new itinary:
saturday 22 of december Québec City-----Chicago
sunday 23 Chicago----Somwhere in Nebraska, Omaha?
monday 24 Nebraska-----SLC
tuesday 25 SLC (solitude, powder mountain, snowbird depending on the conditions)
wednesday 26 SLC
thursday 27 SLC
friday 28 SLC
saturday 29 SLC
sunday 30 SLC
monday 31 SLC
tuesday 1 SLC ----- drive to jackson if snow is good up there !
wednesday 2 Targhee
thursday 3 Targhee
friday 4 Targhee/Jackson Hole
saturday 5 Driving up to near Seattle
sunday 6 Crystal (mainly for the backcountry areas that look nice!)
monday 7 Crystal
tuesday 8 Crystal or Baker------drive to Vancouver
wednesday 9 Whistler
thursday 10 Whistler
friday 11 Whistler (or rest)
saturday 12 Brother taking the plane back from Vancouver--- I drive to rossland
sunday 13 Red Mountain --- Drive to Creston
monday 14 Work begin in Creston!!!

 

[Patrick]

Targhee is mostly a consistent intermediate pitch; just not much real steeps. So you'll like it if there's fresh snow, but want to move on after a day or two otherwise.

I do think Targhee is in the bottom 20% of destination Western ski resorts (assume 50 or so) when it comes to overall pitch/steeps.
(...)
I always viewed Targhee as an add-on to Jackson and not really a destination in itself.

My impression of Targhee is a perfect destination for intermediates. There isn't much difficult stuff here and someone could get bored fairly fast if it hadn't snowed in a while.

Even more than snowfall, discussion of terrain must be about the overall distribution, not the average or how much steep terrain there is.
(...)
the quality of powder skiing at places like Jay, Stowe, MRG.

I love my day at Targhee, I had fun on the groomers and a bit in the little steep parts, but on a non-powder day, I prefer mountain like Stowe, MRG or Sugarloaf than Targhee. I had this discussion on ZSki when people were raving about all the fresh snow at ski areas many hours away in Eastern Quebec (Comi, Valinouet) versus Northern Vermont. I don't necessarily care about fresh powder conditions if there isn't much of a challenge, I would choose the close Northern Vermont areas with no fresh snow over non challenging fresh powder hill 9 times out of 10.

I'm not sure, but I think I prefered the overall steepness of trails at Snow King in Jackson over those at Targhee's. Not saying that Snow King is better, but...

Nic, there are some cheap places in Jackson also. If your really tight budgeted, look up Hostel X (if your not alone)(price per room), the Bunkhouse (per person) or Motel 6 (per room).

Anyways, if this is into really hiking and cheap digs, I might even suggest - Bridger Bowl. Bozeman is cheap, fun...and Bridger has the ridge (oh, but you need a transceiver...$$)...maye not the best idea. But it's on 90 on the way to Seattle.

You can rent a transceiver in Bozeman.

And if in Seattle (not a cheap hotel town), Alpental has really great sidecountry that the patrol will show you around on the weekdays.

I heard some great things about Alpental.

 

[Tony Crocker]

My impression of Targhee is a perfect destination for intermediates.

It's a perfect area for intermediates to learn powder. Powder Mt. is probably the only place I've seen that would be any better. In December these places can be better for anyone if the steeps are still bony.

Nic, there are some cheap places in Jackson also.

Jackson gets far more tourism in summer than winter, so your chances of finding something reasonable are good IMHO.

I don't necessarily care about fresh powder conditions if there isn't much of a challenge, I would choose the close Northern Vermont areas with no fresh snow over non challenging fresh powder hill 9 times out of 10.

This is definitely a minority viewpoint. Powder is enough of a rarity (living in Ottawa, yet!) that most avid skiers would seek it out given a choice. Variable snow conditions are IMHO a major component of challenge in the East. Powder is what makes those tight glades at Stowe and MRG skiable. What makes places like Snowbird so great is that most skiers can ski steeper terrain there than elsewhere due to more forgiving snow conditions.

I've read enough reports on Northwest message boards (plus Larry's Schick's gloating) to be well convinced of Crystal's terrain superiority, plus the abundant controlled sidecountry. Alpental is 2,000 feet lower and I would want strong local input about current conditions to consider going there instead of Crystal. Your likely NW alternative is Mt. Baker as it will have the most coverage if the other places are sketchy.

 

[ChrisC]

I've read enough reports on Northwest message boards (plus Larry's Schick's gloating) to be well convinced of Crystal's terrain superiority, plus the abundant controlled sidecountry. Alpental is 2,000 feet lower and I would want strong local input about current conditions to consider going there instead of Crystal. Your likely NW alternative is Mt. Baker as it will have the most coverage if the other places are sketchy.

I would not suggest Alpental over Crystal. More like if you wanted to see something else too.

Crystal might even be worth two days since the NorthCountry is now going to be lift served by a slow double (to try preserve the snow). The runout was really bad so I am neutral about this expansion. Crystal will now have about 6 upper mountain bowls that are completely lift-served plus about 2 more hike-to basins in the Southback Country.

Alpental might be lower 1500-2000 by this somewhat mitigated by being located on a pass (allowing for colder air to be pulled in by a pressure gradient) and slightly more north.
A good description of what you can expect http://www.nwsource.com/outdoors/scr/of ... s&id=10095
But also you get a few days like these too http://tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78554

 

[nic_okcomputer]

Hi guys! I just wanted to take 2 seconds to thank you all for your comments/suggestions about my trip! Like some of you said i was planing it way too early! Finaly i ended up not going back to Utah (for some reason 2-3 weeks before Christmas it wasn't promising there!) but i discovered incredible resorts in PNW! So basicaly, I arrived in Calgary (by plane finaly!!!) and there was no snow in the forecast around christmas in BC so i just drove down (hell of a day!!!) to hit PNW resorts....Basicaly that was alternating Baker and Crystal for 1 week...and my god, Crystal was incredible, first day there (29 of december i think) was epic, constant snow lately and most important they opened south country after a couple of days of closing....
So according to locals i was realy lucky in many ways because 1) it was bluebird day 2)the view of mt rainier without any clouds around is rare they told me 3)south country + bluebird + light snow....hum.....
I liked the kind of place like Solitude for the controled sidecountry, but Crystal that day was absolutely crazy, long long fall line in Silver Basin 4 times in that day and untracked all day, all that for 20-30 minutes of hiking (looked easier on ski than snowboard though!)

Then, I explored Revelstoke around new year, good snow, not that much crowds for holidays, good terrain but not realy any big constant bowl skiing....north bowl is interesting but involve hike out not very fun on snowboard as it's often realy flat....

Then i took avalanche classes in Golden (with practice at kicking horse)....totaly worth it and it gives you more confidence/knowledge to venture in the real backcountry...but this is a realy dangerous season in BC so i could'nt go in the realy good stuff around whitewater for instance...

Then, back to whistler around the 7th of january (i needed to go to vancouver for some paperwork!) huge dumps AND local knowledge around the mountain.....AND one of those rare uncrowded powder days at whistler according to the guy i was with....probably because right after christmas break or something but lots of untracked and NO single waiting anywhere all day (there was about 20cm last 24 and 40 last 48h if i remember well)
Plus if you're into sidecountry, Flute Bowl worth the 20-30 minutes hike up!

Then, work in Creston for the last month with expeditions to whitewater during week-end (awsome back side in relatively safe treed area and friendly locals that take you up the road after!) One visit at Schweitzer worth it in 20 inches of fresh snow but horrible visibility! They close the T-Bar during week so if you like to hike a bit you can access terrific trees from there that remain totaly untracked all day and week according to locals...until the weekend arrive and they open it and it's tracked quickly then!
And most important!

Kootenay Pass for my first real backcountry experiences, less known than Rodgers Pass but higher (1780m) lots of good stuff to go around including some nice cliff bands, gullies (twin lake area) some realy realy friendly locals that i ended up touring with 3 times!

So thanks again for your advice guys!
Cheers
Nicolas