Vermont Snow Updates 2010-11

[rfarren]

Nice to have a mid winter day this late in the season .

I've just been updating my chart, and this is the 4th year out of the 12 I've tracked with winter conditions in Northern Vermont the last weekend in March. Once you get into April it becomes distinctly rarer, similar to here in SoCal. April 2007 was the conspicuous exception, better than most winter months for powder in the Northeast. At any rate, this season is definitely above average for Northern

Joe Bastardi is calling for a colder than normal April in the NE. He's also calling for colder years ahead in 3 of the next 4 winters.

 

[EMSC]

He's also calling for colder years ahead in 3 of the next 4 winters.

I didn't realize a super volcano had gone off or that a nuclear winter was predicted so soon. Like everyone else I'm going to call on such a ridiculous long range prediction.

 

[skimore]

I like spring days better than winter days on the EC it's nearly always a softer surface

Only true if you are not willing to venture further north than Hunter

 

[Tony Crocker]

"A" means dry winter snow, no melt/freeze. This routinely persists into April on north facing steeps in the West at high altitude. Most places by this time of year it's only going to be during or maybe the first day after a storm, as I found out the hard way Saturday at Mt. Waterman. But based upon JSpin and Anthony's comments, I presume that standard was met this past weekend in Northern Vermont. They or others are free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Joe Bastardi's predictions are based primarily on the Pacific Decadal Oscillation going into its negative phase. In the case of 2010-11 the strong La Nina increased his confidence. He makes a fairly persuasive case for an intermediate 10-20 year cooling trend. However, I agree with EMSC that making predictions for a specific month or year ahead is highly speculative at best.

 

[skimore]

"A" means dry winter snow, no melt/freeze. This routinely persists into April on north facing steeps in the West at high altitude. Most places by this time of year it's only going to be during or maybe the first day after a storm, as I found out the hard way Saturday at Mt. Waterman. But based upon JSpin and Anthony's comments, I presume that standard was met this past weekend in Northern Vermont. They or others are free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Joe Bastardi's predictions are based primarily on the Pacific Decadal Oscillation going into its negative phase. In the case of 2010-11 the strong La Nina increased his confidence. He makes a fairly persuasive case for an intermediate 10-20 year cooling trend. However, I agree with EMSC that making predictions for a specific month or year ahead is highly speculative at best.

yes your standard was met in NVT Saturday

North facing stuff in NNY on friday wasn't so bad either

 

[rfarren]

I like spring days better than winter days on the EC it's nearly always a softer surface

Only true if you are not willing to venture further north than Hunter

Fair enough, but I like the warmer weather too.

"A" means dry winter snow, no melt/freeze.

This can mean hard snow in Utah of all places, that is if it doesn't snow after 5 days, even in January. I don't understand why that is necessarily a qualification for an "A" weekend when a softer corn cycle would clearly ski better.

 

[Admin]

"A" means dry winter snow, no melt/freeze.

This can mean hard snow in Utah of all places, that is if it doesn't snow after 5 days, even in January.

No, it doesn't. Hard snow requires a melt/freeze, period, whether by warm January temperatures, rain, or a strong Utah sun in March. If the snow stays cold and dry, it stays soft. If it's hard here in January it's because of warm, dry high pressure (this year's rare MLK rain event notwithstanding).

 

[rfarren]

"A" means dry winter snow, no melt/freeze.

This can mean hard snow in Utah of all places, that is if it doesn't snow after 5 days, even in January.

No, it doesn't. Hard snow requires a melt/freeze, period, whether by warm January temperatures, rain, or a strong Utah sun in March. If the snow stays cold and dry, it stays soft. If it's hard here in January it's because of warm, dry high pressure (this year's rare MLK rain event notwithstanding).

Maybe that's the impression I got from the my dubious record of hitting Utah during warm high pressure systems.

 

[Marc_C]

No, it doesn't. Hard snow requires a melt/freeze, period, whether by warm January temperatures, rain, or a strong Utah sun in March. If the snow stays cold and dry, it stays soft. If it's hard here in January it's because of warm, dry high pressure (this year's rare MLK rain event notwithstanding).

Maybe that's the impression I got from the my dubious record of hitting Utah during warm high pressure systems.

Hint: stop coming here in January. Try February instead.

 

[rfarren]

No, it doesn't. Hard snow requires a melt/freeze, period, whether by warm January temperatures, rain, or a strong Utah sun in March. If the snow stays cold and dry, it stays soft. If it's hard here in January it's because of warm, dry high pressure (this year's rare MLK rain event notwithstanding).

Maybe that's the impression I got from the my dubious record of hitting Utah during warm high pressure systems.

Hint: stop coming here in January. Try February instead.

I've gone once in January, once in Feb (got a pow day following three high pressure days, and not the softest snow) and the rest of the times I've gone have been mid to late March. I know that a high pressure system in march means warm weather and following the sun, but really is that all that different than what we do in the EC at the same time of the year. And again, why would that qualify as an "A" weekend when a corn cycle weekend wouldn't, regardless of what region is being graded.

All that being said, I think you have to be dumb to argue that the skiing on the EC in terms of terrain and conditions is in the same league as what you find in the rockies. Both are different, and both have their benefits, but altitude has its advantages.

 

[Tony Crocker]

No, it doesn't. Hard snow requires a melt/freeze, period...

+1

I am as much a fan of corn as anyone, but corn is in its peak skiing condition only a few hours of the day. Dry winter snow does not ski all that differently from opening to closing of the day, so is generally preferable as being less restrictive. There are gradations. Most of the snow at Mammoth in January/early February and Alyeska in early March had not been through a melt/freeze but was firm enough for there to be fall consequences on the steeps. But it still does not vary much by time of day. In my diary spreadsheet I usually call that "A-" and the better corn days "B+", even though I'll concede the latter is more enjoyable skiing when timed right.

I think you have to be dumb to argue that the skiing on the EC in terms of terrain and conditions is in the same league as what you find in the rockies.

I think that is the point of the conditions ratings, to quantify that difference over the course of a season. LCC has an average season score of 69 with 16 "A" weekends vs. 39 with 6 "A" weekends in Vermont. I also note that Park City has an average score of 48 with 10 "A" weekends, which is only slightly better than Vermont is likely to finish this season.

 

[rfarren]

Most of the snow at Mammoth in January/early February and Alyeska in early March had not been through a melt/freeze but was firm enough for there to be fall consequences on the steeps. But it still does not vary much by time of day. In my diary spreadsheet I usually call that "A-" and the better corn days "B+", even though I'll concede the latter is more enjoyable skiing when timed right.
.

I've experienced that many a time out west. Old snow in January/February still does get firm...not icy, but firm. I would much rather have a corn day than that. Besides, mountains are rarely entirely north facing, aspects change, and so you can often time the corn harvest to last the whole day. At least, that is my preference.

I think you have to be dumb to argue that the skiing on the EC in terms of terrain and conditions is in the same league as what you find in the rockies.

I think that is the point of the conditions ratings, to quantify that difference over the course of a season. LCC has an average season score of 69 with 16 "A" weekends vs. 39 with 6 "A" weekends in Vermont. I also note that Park City has an average score of 48 with 10 "A" weekends, which is only slightly better than Vermont is likely to finish this season.

To modify my earlier statement: I should have said over the course of a whole season. There are places on the EC when at certain times the conditions and terrain compete on equal footing, and are if not better than what can be found out west.

 

[skimore]

No, it doesn't. Hard snow requires a melt/freeze, period...

+1

I am as much a fan of corn as anyone, but corn is in its peak skiing condition only a few hours of the day. Dry winter snow does not ski all that differently from opening to closing of the day, so is generally preferable as being less restrictive. There are gradations. Most of the snow at Mammoth in January/early February and Alyeska in early March had not been through a melt/freeze but was firm enough for there to be fall consequences on the steeps. But it still does not vary much by time of day. In my diary spreadsheet I usually call that "A-" and the better corn days "B+", even though I'll concede the latter is more enjoyable skiing when timed right.

I think you have to be dumb to argue that the skiing on the EC in terms of terrain and conditions is in the same league as what you find in the rockies.

I think that is the point of the conditions ratings, to quantify that difference over the course of a season. LCC has an average season score of 69 with 16 "A" weekends vs. 39 with 6 "A" weekends in Vermont. I also note that Park City has an average score of 48 with 10 "A" weekends, which is only slightly better than Vermont is likely to finish this season.

Your numbers are wrong for the east. I have 7 weekends with pow skiing and I missed a few

1/15

1/23

1/29

2/12

2/20

2/27

3/26

 

[Tony Crocker]

Your numbers are wrong for the east.

My numbers are not "the east," they are Northern Vermont. And no contradiction, 6 "A" weekends is the average, this year has had 9.

 

[Anthony]

We skied at Jay today (April 22) with great coverage for this time of year. A couple inches of snow fell on Thursday on top of the hard base . We were able to ski the higher elevation glades as the new snow bonded well to the frozen surface. Did not have any issues with stumps or logs poking through. The new snow in the shade managed to stay relatively dry creating a good ski surface . The open trails quickly transformed into spring granular under the April sun. Barring a heat wave , Jay should not have any problems remaining open into May as we skied natural snow glades one week away from May, the trails buried in machine snow are still deep. Will get some pictures up ASAP.

 

[jossecarr]

For the 2010-11 ski season Vermont's ski resorts recorded 4,365,906 visits. Besides, this year's season is the third snowiest season on record. This June, most ski resorts in Vermont are closed for snow sports.

 

[Tony Crocker]

this year's season is the third snowiest season on record.

?????? I have 103% for Jay and 99% for Killington. That's about as average as you can get. Sugarbush at 123% is highest percent of normal for Vermont this season. The 2010-11 eastern ski season was good from a qualitative perspective due to low severity of winter rain and thaw events.

The last sentence of the above post is bizarre.

 

[riverc0il]

The last sentence of the above post is bizarre.

BIzarre posts happen frequently when posters that have a CA location comment on VT conditions.

:lol: :-D

Just kidding. Definitely not a record setting year for New England in any region that I am aware of but especially not VT. We saw a lot more coastal storms this year benefiting Maine and NH. But then again, eastern NH didn't get hit with those big early season storms like Cannon did (I think Cranmore only had 20" or less by mid-January and the ground was bare excepting snow making even at moderate elevation). The consistency of conditions was great due to lack of freeze/thaw events.

I have no idea why anyone would comment on no VT ski areas being open in June. Event when KMart went long, I don't think June happened very often. And it certainly hasn't been done in the 2000s.

 

[Patrick]

The last sentence of the above post is bizarre.

BIzarre posts happen frequently when posters that have a CA location comment on VT conditions.

:lol: :-D

I have no idea why anyone would comment on no VT ski areas being open in June. Event when KMart went long, I don't think June happened very often. And it certainly hasn't been done in the 2000s.

It happened a few years in a row in the early 80s until 1985 when Spring skiing operations were on the Killington Peak chair (with midstation). A couple years later Spring skiing was moved to Skye Peak and the 'new' Superstar and it took a few years of finding the right balance of snowpiling and weather to make to June. Killington then managed to reach June (sometimes easily) from 1992 to 1997. Afterwards, I believe they made it to June once around 2002.

this year's season is the third snowiest season on record.

The last sentence of the above post is bizarre.

Third year on record not in the mountain, however I remember hearing something like that during the Winter. I believe that it involved snow accumulation in Burlington, not the mountains. There is a huge difference, because Burlington doesn't get much snow compared to higher elevation.

 

[Tony Crocker]

I think the comment

This June, most ski resorts in Vermont are closed for snow sports.

qualifies as bizarre when there has never been more than one open in June, and that one hasn't come close for nearly a decade. Killington's abandonment of late season has been publicized and debated at great length, and anyone even casually familiar with eastern skiing should know that.