Fair enough. There’s probably no real rational reason for concern though.
Vietnam
- Thread starter jasoncapecod
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jasoncapecod
Well-known member
ChrisC
Well-known member
Its striking how normalized relations with Vietnam - trade/tourism - have become given relatively recent hisTory.
This contrasts with chronic animosity towards Cuba. I assume it's primarily due to the wealthy Cubans being pushed out and their beautiful mansions and businesses seized. It has been incredibly helpful for their resentment to fester by settling in the swing state if Florida/Dade where their views are tolerated and catered to by politicians state-wide and nationally. Helps they vote Republican, as well as some younger generations Democratic.
Always find it ironic that Hialeah FL (poorer Cuban suburban outside Miami) has the highest per capita usage of Obamacare - yet always vote to undo it.
The Vietnamese have nothing similar.
Too bad we don't have better policies to normalize Cuban government.
Lucky to have visited Cuba in the waning days of Obama.
This contrasts with chronic animosity towards Cuba. I assume it's primarily due to the wealthy Cubans being pushed out and their beautiful mansions and businesses seized. It has been incredibly helpful for their resentment to fester by settling in the swing state if Florida/Dade where their views are tolerated and catered to by politicians state-wide and nationally. Helps they vote Republican, as well as some younger generations Democratic.
Always find it ironic that Hialeah FL (poorer Cuban suburban outside Miami) has the highest per capita usage of Obamacare - yet always vote to undo it.
The Vietnamese have nothing similar.
Too bad we don't have better policies to normalize Cuban government.
Lucky to have visited Cuba in the waning days of Obama.
Yes they did. Their refugees were also militantly anti-communist, many of them Catholic, and lots of them settled in inland Orange County, centered on Garden Grove. The Democrats thought they were carving out a seat in OC in 1980 by clustering the ethnic groups in one district. You may remember right wing firebrand "B-1 Bob" Dornan, who was at the same time gerrymandered out of his western L.A. county seat. He moved into that OC district in 1984, won the seat and held it for 12 years.
But all the Vietnamese came in the late 1970's, and the younger generation is more moderate. Orange County has been very purple since 2016 and has 2 of the most closely contested congressional seats in the US. The current Vietnamese population in OC is 190,000.
The Cubans are more influential because there are a lot more of them: 1.2 million in Miami-Dade alone. And their anti-socialista fervor is reinforced by recent Venezuelan and Nicaraguan arrivals.
Liz and I were there in 2017. Did you also scuba dive there? Despite all the blustering talk, we have been told by friends that it's easier now to travel to Cuba, and without being as much tied to "official" tours.
Vietnam has copied the Chinese model of becoming more capitalistic while retaining the one party state and just paying lip service to communism. The Cuban government is to a large degree still composed of true believers in communism.
tseeb
Well-known member
The City and County where I live, "Santa Clara County is home to more than 140,000 persons of Vietnamese ancestry, making it the second largest Vietnamese population outside of Vietnam. Vietnamese Americans make up 7.5 percent of Santa Clara County population and are the county’s second largest Asian subgroup2. The City of San Jose has the largest Vietnamese population (100,486) of any city outside of Vietnam."
My opinion is that they are somewhat conservative and support Vietnamese candidates, regardless of merit. My City Council district has appointed Mexican-American councilperson facing runoff against Vietnamese San Jose Police sergeant Tam Truong who "has been accused of mortgage fraud, as well as withholding more than $30,000 in wages from a former employee." I see a lot of lawn sign for Tam Truong and I'm assuming they are all in front of homes occupied by Vietnamese.
My 32 1/2 year-old son was in Vietnam for New Years 2023 with high school friends, including a gay Vietnamese guy who traveled with his non-Vietnamese boyfriend (since broken up), and for the 2nd half of December 2024 with his Vietnamese girlfriend (since broken up), returning on New Years Day 2024. He had great weather the first year and they stayed in some very nice, low-cost hotels and took an overnight cruise to Ha Long Bay that he recommended along with the city of Ha Long (on coast near Hanoi). On his more recent trip he and his at the time girlfriend visited Japan and Thailand before meeting up with her family who left Vietnam about 30 years ago and visited the village where she was from. They had some rain. On both his trips he had problem with his VISA - it seems like he had arrival date wrong. Map with Cities/areas he visited highlighted.
My opinion is that they are somewhat conservative and support Vietnamese candidates, regardless of merit. My City Council district has appointed Mexican-American councilperson facing runoff against Vietnamese San Jose Police sergeant Tam Truong who "has been accused of mortgage fraud, as well as withholding more than $30,000 in wages from a former employee." I see a lot of lawn sign for Tam Truong and I'm assuming they are all in front of homes occupied by Vietnamese.
My 32 1/2 year-old son was in Vietnam for New Years 2023 with high school friends, including a gay Vietnamese guy who traveled with his non-Vietnamese boyfriend (since broken up), and for the 2nd half of December 2024 with his Vietnamese girlfriend (since broken up), returning on New Years Day 2024. He had great weather the first year and they stayed in some very nice, low-cost hotels and took an overnight cruise to Ha Long Bay that he recommended along with the city of Ha Long (on coast near Hanoi). On his more recent trip he and his at the time girlfriend visited Japan and Thailand before meeting up with her family who left Vietnam about 30 years ago and visited the village where she was from. They had some rain. On both his trips he had problem with his VISA - it seems like he had arrival date wrong. Map with Cities/areas he visited highlighted.
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jasoncapecod
Well-known member
thanks for the info!!!!
ChrisC
Well-known member
I was relatively unaware of California politics until 2000+, outside Proposition 13 (Property Taxes) and 187 (Immigration). Orange County politics is, of course, well-known nationwide.
We did our own thing with a Cuban tour guide who came highly recommended/that other friends had used. We rented an old restored mansion on VRBO and primarily ate at independently owned restaurants, "paladars." The one exception was when we visited Hemingway's favorite Havana-based bar—El Floridita—for Daiquiris. Our guide was not enthusiastic since it was run by the state.
We primarily stayed in Havana, with one day in the countryside—a sugar cane farm, cigars, rum—and a little beach—Varadero Beach (an illegal stop for Americans doing a cultural visit in support of the Cuban people).
No scuba diving at "Jardines de la Reina". There were seven of us, and three did not dive. Nor did we have the time. (I understand the coral bleaching was especially bad in this area last year. Most of the Caribbean was impacted - bad reports about Bonaire, Roatan, and Cozumel - and more decimation for the Florida Keys)
In October, our Southwest flight (Ft. Lauderdale to Havana) had 12 people on it, and 100 seats were empty. Both directions.
It was fun to be without phones, the Internet, or computers for a while and be forced to talk to each other. Not so fun to have $100s in cash due to lack of ATMs.
Yes. I think 10 million Venezuelans have left the country. There now might be as many in South Florida as Cubans, but they are more dispersed among Dade and Broward County. Coral Gables is the goal of wealthy Cubans, and Weston/Aventura is the goal of wealthy Venezuelans. Meanwhile, Brazilians have taken over Deerfield Beach - it's all butt floss, speedos, and volleyball only using your feet.
Cuba lost another 1M in the last year out of a population of 10M.
Our Cuban guide (who also did freelance work for American Network News) left almost 2 years ago. He went to Columbia/Venezuela, Darien Gap, Panama, and up through Mexico. Crossed the border into Texas. Came to Florida. Now has Green Card after 1 year+.
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jasoncapecod
Well-known member
I’m not one to write an extensive report. I am writing this from hoi an. So far it has been an eye opening experience. Here’s some pics.
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Post some of your impressions!
White people in boats:
White people in boats:
jasoncapecod
Well-known member
Welcome to Hanoi
This is the craziest places I have ever been to. The level of traffic , scooters , street vendors is insane. I’m from NY this place makes NYC seem like a sleepy backwoods town.
Here’s some pics. That’s the infamous Hanoi Hilton.
Train St
This is the craziest places I have ever been to. The level of traffic , scooters , street vendors is insane. I’m from NY this place makes NYC seem like a sleepy backwoods town.
Here’s some pics. That’s the infamous Hanoi Hilton.
Train St
Excellent pix, I feel like I'm there. Wow, lots of tourists!
How are you dealing with that? I don't require a Swiss-level of cleanliness and order for a vacation but at the same time I may be approaching the "I'm getting too old for this shit" life stage.
Fantastic pics. I can see people in sweaters which surprises me. Perhaps I can take a trip there.
Northern Vietnam and Thailand cool off significantly during the winter. Winter average temperature range in Hanoi is 70/59 vs. 88/72 in Saigon.
Looks like I’ll visit in December one year.
jasoncapecod
Well-known member
It’s pushing my limits.Excellent pix, I feel like I'm there. Wow, lots of tourists!
How are you dealing with that? I don't require a Swiss-level of cleanliness and order for a vacation but at the same time I may be approaching the "I'm getting too old for this shit" life stage.
Saigon was insanely hot and humid
Hoi Ann less hot but still very humid
Hanoi is very comfortable
jasoncapecod
Well-known member
We skipped ha long
Going to Ninh binn
Jason, how prevalent is the French colonial/cultural imprint so many years later?
When I was an undergrad at CU Boulder 40 years ago, a famous Polish neo-conservative professor, Edward Rozek, assigned our class a 1980 best-seller spy novel called The Spike that had a long section about a young American reporter who arrived in Vietnam to cover the war. The descriptions of everything, including being imprisoned by the Vietcong, were really convincing and conveyed what the country was like back then: the sights, sounds, and smells.
It tells the story of a radical 1960s journalist, Bob Hockney, who stumbles upon a Soviet plot for global supremacy by 1985. When he tries to expose the web of blackmail, sex, and espionage, he's hamstrung by his editors' liberal media bias.
LOL, sound familiar?
Jason, when you get back to the states, go to the library and find it. Guaranteed interesting reading; in fact, I may give my dog-eared copy another read.
When I was an undergrad at CU Boulder 40 years ago, a famous Polish neo-conservative professor, Edward Rozek, assigned our class a 1980 best-seller spy novel called The Spike that had a long section about a young American reporter who arrived in Vietnam to cover the war. The descriptions of everything, including being imprisoned by the Vietcong, were really convincing and conveyed what the country was like back then: the sights, sounds, and smells.
It tells the story of a radical 1960s journalist, Bob Hockney, who stumbles upon a Soviet plot for global supremacy by 1985. When he tries to expose the web of blackmail, sex, and espionage, he's hamstrung by his editors' liberal media bias.
LOL, sound familiar?
Jason, when you get back to the states, go to the library and find it. Guaranteed interesting reading; in fact, I may give my dog-eared copy another read.
jasoncapecod
Well-known member
In Saigon there is a mix of French and modern architecture.
I witness the most extreme insanity on the road. It will be tattooed in my memory.
2 lane road with 6 lanes of traffic. All going in what ever direction.
now to the last installment from ninh binh
jimk
Active member
Nice photos. Thanks for sharing. How would you say the prices are for food, lodging and touristy stuff?
My four adult kids are in Bali right now. One is stationed in Jakarta, Indonesia for State/Foreign Service. The others went over for a 2 week visit. My wife and I thought about going too, but 24+ hours flight time was a deterrent and we're also preparing for a bathroom remodeling project to begin in a few days. Maybe next year?
My four adult kids are in Bali right now. One is stationed in Jakarta, Indonesia for State/Foreign Service. The others went over for a 2 week visit. My wife and I thought about going too, but 24+ hours flight time was a deterrent and we're also preparing for a bathroom remodeling project to begin in a few days. Maybe next year?