rfarren":1ulqmwod said:
Aspen/Snowmass is most definitely not too bad for skier density, but it doesn't get the snow that Vail does.
Agree, and that goes for Crested Butte and Telluride too.
rfarren":1ulqmwod said:
I've heard both Telluride and Crested Butte are pricey. Their trailmaps look impressive, but those can be deceiving, albeit Crested Butte has a reputation for steeps.
While all of these places have interesting terrain they average well under 300 inches of light and dry snow, which means that waiting a for an adequate base depth to ski the really steep stuff can be like Chinese water torture. Some but not all of the steeps are open by Christmas during average years. February and March are generally good, but then CB and Telluride close first weekend of April, most years with max base depths of the season. Crested Butte has the most hairball terrain, but up to half of the "Extreme" is open a month or less, and in years like this not at all. The North Face lift serving 80% of of that terrain is open by New Year's about 15% of seasons.
johnnash":1ulqmwod said:
When we were slaves of the school schedule, we used to ski SLC the week between Christmas and New Year's, and Colorado (mostly Copper and Keystone in those days) over Prez Day or MLC holiday. So, we were in both areas at pretty much peak times. From my experience in the CCs (especially Brighton and Solitude), I can certainly believe the statistic about Colorado having 3X the skiers/ac as Utah on average, but that must vary a lot among the different areas in Utah. It definitely did not look that way in the PC group. In all 3 of those resorts -- even DV, which limits the number of tix it sells -- we found lines longer than those in Copper or Keystone.
Strongly disagree. The math is pretty simple. PC, DV and the Canyons total about 1.5 million skier visits. Copper + Keystone + Breck total twice that many on basically the same total acreage. I have 15 days at the former areas and 13 at the latter and certainly have the impression that the Colorado group is more congested in terms of both lift lines and skier density. johnnash's experience is colored by him being in Park City Christmas week vs. Jan or Feb. in Colorado. Christmas week congestion is the worst, often exacerbated by areas not being fully open, which they nearly always are at MLK or President's weekends. I'll :dead horse: again: Just say no to Christmas week destination ski trips, unless they are very far off the beaten track.
johnnash":1ulqmwod said:
On the economics of the resorts, I wonder how much the expense of snow-making impacts on the bottom line. Wouldn't the Utah resorts have to spend much less than Colorado on this? I know Tony says Utah is more reliable early in the season.
The Park City areas would like you to think they are swimming in powder because they are in the same state as LCC/BCC, but the reality is that their snowfall is rather similar to Summit County Colorado. Thus the importance of snowmaking for early season should be similar also. However we all know that manmade snow and high skier density are not a good combination. So during a typical Christmas or January I think snow surfaces would on average be better at the Park City group than at the Colorado areas with twice as much traffic. February is good most of the time in both places. March and April the advantage swings decisively to Summit County Colorado mainly due to the much higher altitude and better snow preservation. Also average Utah snowfall is fairly evenly distributed through the season while Front Range Colorado's is somewhat more in March/April.
EMSC":1ulqmwod said:
Based on my 14 years in Colorado I'd guess that (assuming such a pass for non-locals were available that whole time frame) you would do just fine buying one in ~12 of those 14 years (using it for two one week trips). Perhaps 2-3 other 'mediocre' seasons in there as well (ask Tony
, but really this year and 2002 are clear and above 'winners' for crappy snow seasons compared to any of the others. So not exactly bad odds over a decent time frame. And really if you had happened to get lucky and time things just right, much of Feb was pretty decent skiing even this year.
Northern and Central Colorado has 8 years out of 37 at less than 80% of normal snowfall. This year will probably be 60-65%, 2002 was 71%. Out of all of those seasons this year was the worst for late season by far, and 2002 was probably the only other one that was poor in March/April. Why can I say this? I was at Copper/A-Basin in late April 1987, which was a 65% season but skiing was fine since March/April had 75 inches snowfall vs. 40 in 2002 and 20 so far this year. The much reviled 1977 and 1981 seasons, which were complete disasters through January, had 80+ inches in March/April. So yes that Epic Pass for 2 one week trips is quite safe if you're smart about scheduling them. I would not schedule before mid-January unless you have already seen a strong early season developing. February-April you have 90+% chance of decent conditions IMHO.
EMSC":1ulqmwod said:
(Though the OOtah'ers will chime in with 13 of 14 being great or something).
I should perhaps refer people to my snow conditions tables;
Utah:
http://gator1314.hostgator.com/~bestsnow/utahhist.htm
Colorado:
http://gator1314.hostgator.com/~bestsnow/colohist.htm
LCC is in a class by itself but note that Park City is less reliable than some Colorado areas.
For comparison, since the OP was looking at some other places:
Mammoth and Sierra Nevada:
http://gator1314.hostgator.com/~bestsnow/mmthhist.htm
Fernie and Whistler:
http://gator1314.hostgator.com/~bestsnow/fernhist.htm
Totals favor those places with long seasons like Mammoth, Whistler and LCC. But you could just compare the specific months you will be living in/near one of these resorts.
