why bump skiers rule

Sorry, I ran into a minor glitch: I can't find it. :oops: I've emailed Jim for a copy, but he must be on vacation.
 
Admin":38qvfnzl said:
Sorry, I ran into a minor glitch: I can't find it. :oops: I've emailed Jim for a copy, but he must be on vacation.
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Just got back...give me a few to e-mail it to Marc.
 
Okay, so let's bring this thread back home. Why, in a nut shell, do bump skiers rule? ...assuming, that is, that they do rule. Here's my shot at it:

1) ...because they learn to balance in the most balance-adverse conditions;
2) ...because they develop, by necessity, extraordinary quickness;
3) ...because they move dynamically through three dimensions, rather than just two. (The up-and-down, absorption-and-extension movements so crucial to good bump skiing are rarely developed by groomed-trail devotees.)

-Dan D.
 
I give most emphasis to point number 3 for why bumpers ski better. When I'm really on and I'm feeling that 3D movement going on, I can ski anything well. And you really do feel it when it's happening.
 
Ok, here is why bump skiers don't rule :wink: :

1). They ski on skis that everyone else on the mountain thinks are old because they are straight, and most have "never seen that model"

2). They ski with their feet close together and every instructor knows that is just wrong

3). They wear flashy pants just to look cool

4). They ski with the wrong length poles... why?... I don't know :wink:

5). They don't carve... isn't skiing all about carving?

But wait... didn't someone write a book about these very things :) ?

On a more serious note, bump skiers seem to work really hard at skiing, whether they are competitors or just enthusiasts. I have never met a bump skier that was overall happy with their skiing. It takes a lot of dedication and hard work to just learn how to ski bumps correctly, let alone aspire to being a ripper. You don't just become a bump skier by buying the latest gear (funny thing is that most bump skiers rarely talk about gear, because it is just a tool), you have to work hard to earn that label.

To me it is the dedication and the willingness to go against what is taught in mainstream skiing, in pursuit of a more difficult and rewarding aspect of skiing, that makes bump skiers rule. They are definately a different breed and almost looked at as an oddity, but hopefully the future will bring more skiers with the right outlook into the mainstream, which will only help advance the future of the sport.

cj
 
And yet so many skiers list skiing bumps better as their main goal that it seems odd that mogul skiing isn't viewed as mainstream. If more than a third of your students wanted to learn something, wouldn't you consider that mainstream?

Shows you what marketing hype and politics can do to screw things up.
 
JimG.":35zkhlhd said:
And yet so many skiers list skiing bumps better as their main goal that it seems odd that mogul skiing isn't viewed as mainstream. If more than a third of your students wanted to learn something, wouldn't you consider that mainstream?

Shows you what marketing hype and politics can do to screw things up.
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That stat is amazing... I never knew that. So many resorts groom their hills to death... but if mogul skiing becomes more popular, there will be more and better bump runs. Then, those of us who were not Johnny Come Lately's can reap the benefits! I think too that most people just want to be able to ski bumps "instructor style" and not necessarily zipper line, which is a bummer (since it causes cross troughed bumps).

I wish I could just say "F" it and move to WP and ski Mary Jane for the rest of my life. If the day comes that MJ starts to get groomed, we are in real trouble! Now that is a place where every run has perfect, non cross troughed lines. Why, because there are nothing but good/great bump skiers out there.

I will at least spend my winters out there when I retire... if it is still a bump skiers mountain. But that is a long ways off. I figure I should be able to handle bump skiing into my 60s... I hope.

cj
 
cj":fcz0c4re said:
JimG.":fcz0c4re said:
If more than a third of your students wanted to learn something...
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That stat is amazing... I never knew that... I think too that most people just want to be able to ski bumps "instructor style" and not necessarily zipper line...

I wish I could just say "F" it and move to WP and ski Mary Jane for the rest of my life....

cj
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CJ,
When you teach them the right techniques, this 1/3 of the mainstream, so far as my on-snow lessons have proved, loves the zipper line. It's traditional instruction that has made students ski bumps like instructors.

I never once had a student say, "Oh, hey, wait a minute. I wanted to learn to loop gently down the bumps, back and forth across the fall line. I'd prefer to not ski like a real bumper." The overwhelming response I received: "So, this is how you guys do it!" (Said with a smile.)

So, what keeps you from moving to mogul country?

Funny list of reasons why bumpers don't rule. :-)

-Dan D
 
CJ,
When you teach them the right techniques, this 1/3 of the mainstream, so far as my on-snow lessons have proved, loves the zipper line. It's traditional instruction that has made students ski bumps like instructors.

I never once had a student say, "Oh, hey, wait a minute. I wanted to learn to loop gently down the bumps, back and forth across the fall line. I'd prefer to not ski like a real bumper." The overwhelming response I received: "So, this is how you guys do it!" (Said with a smile.)
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I guess that I made the mistake of generalizing what I have seen here locally, as our instructors don't have a clue and have no interest in learning or teaching it the "right way". It is great to know that in your experience when most skiers are exposed to the knowledge that they respond so favorably. Our sport really needs so many more instructors like yourself to spread the "truth".

I have a friend that is a really strong skier and can ski bumps, but not with the technique that most "bumpers" use. I talked him into going to camp one winter and he still is not that interested in improving his bump skiing or skiing like a "bump skier". From what you have said, I beleive that he is an isolated case. But I think that he knows that he will really have to work at it and is not willing to put in the time, eventhough he skis 50+ days a year. I don't know that I blame him since he skis mostly out west and would rather ski powder and steeps.

So, what keeps you from moving to mogul country?
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Me and my wife have too much invested in our lives here (good jobs, house, family, etc.) to risk it all by moving to WP. I don't think that I could make a decent living out there. My brother lived in Vail for 5 years and it was a struggle for him to have a decent life out there life aside from skiing. Plus it is sort of a hard sell since my wife doesn't ski. But some day I will spend my entire winters out there. I will be there in a month though and I am psyched about that.

Funny list of reasons why bumpers don't rule. :-)
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Thanks! I figured that I would add a little humor.

Thanks for shedding some light on my skewed views and lets hope for some colder weather and snow!

Take Care,

cj
 
Dan DePiro's point #3 is the reason that top mogul skiers can translate their skills to other types of skiing. That 3rd dimension is the reason powder skiing has a slow learning curve for some of us.

I'm not so sure Mary Jane's moguls are unique out here. I think it's just that bump runs make up a disproportionate fraction of WP's black-rated terrain. I think you get longer and/or steeper fall lines of bumps at Sun Valley, Taos, Spiral Stairs/Kant-Mak-M at Telluride, Prima/Pronto/Highline at Vail, the whole face of Bell at Aspen, Gunbarrel at Heavenly, KT-22 at Squaw, etc.

I'm not sure why you eastern bump aficionados aren't hanging out at MRG. It was wall-to-wall moguls when I was there, and the average level of ski ability was as high as as I've seen anywhere. But perhaps like me most of you like your moguls soft, as they were on that 60 degree day.
 
Tony Crocker":1d7rdsbz said:
I'm not sure why you eastern bump aficionados aren't hanging out at MRG. It was wall-to-wall moguls when I was there, and the average level of ski ability was as high as as I've seen anywhere. But perhaps like me most of you like your moguls soft, as they were on that 60 degree day.
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MRG is my favorite eastern destination, and you're right that it has lots of bumps. It's nice to see one ski area that doesn't groom too much or mow down bumps as soon as they form. And you're also correct that the ski ability level there is superior; the bump lines are always consistent, amazing considering how little they groom. Good skiers make good bump lines.

But when I go to MRG I seem to spend 90% of my time in the woods.
 
yesterday at loon mtn in NH , the freshly seeded bumps( about 72 hours old is my best guess) on a relatively steep line, were in the best shape i have ever seen them in in my 8 years of skiing overall and skiing at loon, since that is where i learned to ski...no a spec of so called " ice " anywhere in or around them.. perfect wet packed snow and temps of about 45F.. this was set up by the weather.. and while the extended view of this situation makes for not good news in terms of snow melt and the inevitable freeze that will come, the 1 day report on the snow was the best day of skiing bumps i have ever had at loon...and despite this " epic " day of epic conditions, my buddies and i did not see one instructor out there working on anything at all in regards to bumps either by themselves for thier own improvement or with a class.. how do we know this.. becasue we are nuts and we stop and talk to everyone who we think may show any inclination at all to ski bumps.. there were plenty of " i'll give that a try " folks who were able to make it down due to the ideal conditions and there were a few people who were ok or at least thought they were ok :wink: bumps skiers, but they were clearly not instructors. but there were plenty of fast skiing super g heel turning, x screaming, 15 mm riser platebindings, 25 to 50 year olds out there "ripping" up the soft cream cheese corduroy :roll: . we saw not one single instructor all day long in flume line.. in all the time we were there a solid 5 and a half hours, we skied about 30 runs in the 80 bump course with 45 min for lunch and saw not one, not a single solitary person employed by the ski school on what was for loon, one of the no more than 5 days a year that that line will be in the shape it was in, skiing bumps...incredible :roll: :? :shock:
 
joegm":o7v4v96x said:
yesterday at loon mtn in NH , the freshly seeded bumps( about 72 hours old is my best guess) on a relatively steep line, were in the best shape i have ever seen them...
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Joe,

Good to hear you've got your Loon bumps in. What midweek days do you typically ski? Let me know how those bumps hold up with the rain. Will Loon dust them with a little man-made if everything freezes solid? ...or just mow them down?

-Dan D
 
It was so warm when I was at MRG that unconsolidated snow off the trails was rotten. The bumps were sufficiently skier-packed to hold up well in the weather.

Eastern groomers are in general not sufficiently steep (nor are they salted) to ski well when it's very warm with no overnight freeze IMHO. I found that at Killington late April 1990 and even to some extent at Stowe the day before MRG and tended to ski more bumps because that was where the best snow was.

My guess is that joegm's day at Loon was warm enough to soften the bumps to optimum condition, but that the groomers were good too because the sun wasn't high enough to make them sticky.
 
joegm":3aubd6rv said:
becasue we are nuts and we stop and talk to everyone who we think may show any inclination at all to ski bumps..
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That reminds me... the friend that I ski with is a liftie at one of the local resorts and he was working the top lift shack when he saw some dude come up the lift on K2 Power Mamba's a he had on some older Predator bump pants. This was right after New Years, so he might have just been passing through for the holidays. He tried to catch up with the guy, but I guess he just went to the back side of the mountain and skied our one bump run all day. He called me and told me about it and now we just refer to him as the "mysterious bumper". Kinda like seeing Bigfoot.

I think it may have been a guy that I skied with a few times years ago, but it is hard to tell since I wasn't there. Maybe we will run into him again. It would be nice to have a posse of bumpers to ski with all the time.

DD- on a lighter note, I let that same friend borrow your book and he was reading it at work and when he was finished he propped it up against the glass in his lift shack so people could see the titile. The funny thing was that, on that day they had a huge instructor training thing up there and the instructors were giving him funny looks :) .

cj

I need to get bumper stickers made up that say:

"Stop the Senseless Grooming"
"Friends Don't Let Friends Cross Trough"
"Tips to the target"
 
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