Europe 24/25

[ChrisC]

Fair enough. My first choice was Lech for this group but I was over ruled. I think off-piste is always a crap shoot particularly in these low snow rocky areas for sure but Jan 28 is not exactly Christmas time. Having mostly opened pistes and then some side piste powder if we got lucky enough didn’t seem like a terrible bet.

I am seeing some good videos coming out of the Arlberg.


And I get it.... I ski with some of my MBA friends based in London, but I don't have a pull. It was Lech vs. Courmayeur in 2022. Courmayeur won. And now it's Engelberg vs Japan/NMacedonia.....it's Engelberg. I am along for the ride....unless it's really a dumb choice...I will go along.

 

[berkshireskier]

Fair enough. My first choice was Lech for this group but I was over ruled. I think off-piste is always a crap shoot particularly in these low snow rocky areas for sure but Jan 28 is not exactly Christmas time. Having mostly opened pistes and then some side piste powder if we got lucky enough didn’t seem like a terrible bet.

Still hopefully will work out fine, I dont see why they wont have most of the pistes open by then. Last night seemed to be a nice snow and some more later this week. I ca relax a little now I think. Like you said, average still seems to be in play so I’ll be happy with that. If it’s average, I think the comparison to Stowe or DV might be a bit overdone. I was there in a low snow year in 2019 and skid exclusively on piste and it was not a comparable experience to Vermont in any way. The vertical at Corvatsch, the scenery everywhere, the food etc. It’s a bigger package skiing over there in nearly every way.

One day I’ll have the ability to be more flexible but for now, 35, two young kids, school schedules, traveling in a group with others with opinions, I kind of gotta take what I can get.

No need to explain, SandGNut. There could be worse fates than having to ski in St. Moritz in January.

 

[skiandgolfnut]

No need to explain, SandGNut. There could be worse fates than having to ski in St. Moritz in January.

Totally. This is my 8th trip across the pond now and seems to me like the worst case outcome is far more related to visibility and white out days than it is to the lack of snow scenario. At least for the type of trip me and the people I ski with are usually looking for. I have been lucky to have only gotten a couple of bad weather days.

 

[Tony Crocker]

2019 was the year Liz and I skied St.Moritz in January and it was definitely not low tide. We got some powder leftovers at all of the areas. The earlier Nordstau storms were very strong and hit everything hard in the eastern half of Switzerland.

Corvatsch is a lot like Zermatt with big boulders, needs lots of snow to ski off piste I’d guess. Corviglia is harder to say. Great when we were there but south facing and I’d have some concern if mostly manmade snow.

I’ve said before that Aspen is the close US analogy to St. Moritz. That means lack of excessive crowds due to remote location from metro areas. The groomer snow was probably the best I’ve skied in the Alps, though as noted we had very favorable conditions on that trip not only there but at Arosa, Engelberg and Andermatt.

We have had some very good times in the Alps when confined to groomers (Jungfrau good example) but I’m generally restless with more than about 3 days in that scenario. The Dolomites would be the exception to that with such massive sprawl, great food and amazing scenery.

 

[ChrisC]

I have my trip to Engelberg (4 days) coming up and then will follow the snow for 5/6 days. We have a guide for Friday; however, we will watch snowfall and can modify the exact date. Bases in the Western Alps seem decent, and storms are on the horizon. The Engelberg guide office is one of the best; they run groups on the weekends and will take 2+ skiers out on the weekdays for very reasonable fees. Also, I did not want the guys trying to navigate glaciers/crevasses without a guide.

Having only skied the Arlberg and Ischgl, I was interested in continuing into Austria afterward - Solden, Obergurgl, Pitztal?, Garmisch/Zugspitze?, Kitzbuhel, Saalbach, Zell am See/Kaprun. However, looking at the conditions - webcams and Opensnow forecasts - it only looks OK. Kitzbuhel has snow but is only skiing its snowmaking runs (although I did not expect much off-piste there). Saalbach - OK. Obergurgl looked very rocky off-piste. I will need to look at Solden tomorrow. Overall, max bases seem to be only 100-125cm...and not too much snow is forecasted for the Eastern Alps.

So I will give it another look tomorrow, but I will likely bail on Austria and ski some new and favorite Swiss and Italian Areas. The snowfall potential for the Western Alps -both north/south sides looks very good!

Specifically, the Andermatt guide office now runs guided groups at all levels on Fridays for a reasonable cost. So that is an obvious stop - steep 5,000 vertical feet off-piste runs?! Zinal/Grimentz are area'm interested in skiing a few of the mountains around s I'm interested in....both steep and off the beaten path. Gstaad areas are a curiosity / good storm day hills - groomers/off-piste meadows. Courmayeur is getting a lot of snow so maybe an AM guide for Skyway-Hellbronner - 4000 vertical ft runs..... PM at resort. Guiding rates are a lot cheaper in Italy. Some other candidates: La Clusaz, Megeve for a storm day, etc.

Versus Austria......

 

[ChrisC]

I finished my review of European ski conditions. A relatively narrow number of typical resorts have decent conditions where off-piste would be good. And it's all the usual suspects.

Some standout:

• 3 Vallees - almost all the resorts report 120/200 cm base/summit. It probably has the best conditions in Europe now!
• Val d'Isere/Tignes - 80/160cm
• Ste. Foy
• Les Arcs/La Plagne
• Thuile/Rosiere
• Courmayeur
• Chamonix
• Andermatt - 80/140cm
• Engelberg
• Jungfrau - 50/170cm
• Arlberg - needs some new snow.....
• Some glacier areas in Austria - Pitztal, Hintertux, etc.

Some unexpected below average - almost anything along the Alps Crest/Southern Alps:

• Zermatt. Every off-piste yellow itinerary is closed. All Hohtalli is closed/not yet..... this is now year number 3 for Zermatt not opening the Hohtalli freeride zone by February 1st.
• Davos
• St. Moritz. Lots of pistes/sectors are still closed
• Monterosa. This is surprising when less than 60 min away - Courmayeur and La Thuile are great! Its summit Tram is still closed. (I have given up trying to ski this expert area. I have spoken with too many European guides (non-Italian) who have said they have never had a good experience at Monterosa (Gressoney/Alagna) resorts.

I was considering St. Moritz as a potential destination, but you can see you many lifts/pistes that are still closed (orange)

Zermatt closed areas. Only red/blue snowmaking pistes open.

 

[ChrisC]

EMSC should have a good trip - 200cm is historically high for the 3 Vallees. It will just be a surface-condition game.

SkiGolfNut - Are you flying to Milan? It's groomers in St. Moritz, but only about 70% of them. Its terrain is way too rocky for any off-piste. Although 30+" are expected. I probably would head in the other - West direction - from Milan to Cham/Thuile/Courmayeur, but I think you just did that.

Southern Alps areas are so erratic with their snowfall.



I saw some Courmayeur pics/conditions online - it said recent snowfall was 50cm at elevation and 30 at La Thuile

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[jamesdeluxe]

Yikes for Corvatsch at the end of January:

When I went there in mid-December 2023, this is what it looked like but not due to low tide, simply because they don't open those lifts until the third week of December to save money, I guess. Still had a decent day.

 

[ChrisC]

When I went there in mid-December 2023, this is what it looked like but not due to low tide, simply because they don't open those lifts until the third week of December to save money, I guess. Still had a decent day.

I would assume it is "not good" in St. Moritz if almost 1/4 of its pistes are closed. All the high-altitude pistes at Corviglia are closed. They only have one piste off the summit of Corvatsch??!! And Diavolezza-Lagalb seems to only have one piste at each.

This means the off-piste is completely unskiable - since it is rugged rocky terrain.

I am unsure if some of the closed pistes have snowmaking. Assume - no.

And that means each open piste has an HSQuad serving it - likely rendering open pistes quite icy.

 

[ChrisC]

Some quotes from James's goldmine Alpinforum in January 2025:

Austria

Österreich - alpinforum.com

Stubai Glacier
I haven't experienced as little snow in January as there is now in the last 20 years. The current snow situation is more reminiscent of the end of November/beginning of December. The wind has also done its best to distribute the snow as poorly as possible.
In terms of pistes, basically everything that has been snowed or is on the glacier is open at the moment. The 10a was open for a short time until the wind carried the snow back. They were on the 11 with the caterpillar, but there are still a lot of stones sticking out of the steep slope. The 2 is doable as a freeride run, but not yet groomed because there are still stones to be seen in places. According to the lift people, it will be a while before the 5/5a to the Gaisskar valley station open, as there is still no snow. They were already on the 17 with the caterpillar. The valley run under the gondola (ski path) is doable without contact with stones, but not recommended, especially in the evening with all the people inside.
A special feature is that the Daunjoch chairlift without a piste is open to freeriders in good weather (due to rescue options according to the information). As far as I have heard, the run is still a bit rocky in the lower section, and the Glammergrube is not really skiable yet.
I also tested the closed Wilde Grube, the entrance from the Daunferner side is currently still very wild, also because the stream is not blocked. A track was prepared from the Murmele with a caterpillar. The prepared track is slightly rocky in the middle section, not suitable for large numbers of people, but can be avoided. The actual ski route can also be ridden next to the track, you have to be a bit careful of small stones, especially below the Tiwag construction site. It is then a pleasure at the bottom. Overall, however, it is a freeride run and not the well-known Wilde Grube.
If you want to freeride: be careful and go slowly! There was a fatal accident about 2 weeks ago, and we saw another near-accident. There are currently a lot of sharp stones lurking under the thin layer of snow, and when landing after a fall, there is a good chance of coming into contact with another stone.
One thing has to be said, though, is that there is relatively little going on (no queues longer than 30 seconds on weekends when the sun is shining) and the pistes that are open are very nice and have good grip.


Saalbach
We've been here since Saturday. The northern slopes may be true until 11 or 12 at the latest, but after that they're all completely rutted and mostly as smooth as glass. On the other hand, all the slopes that get enough sun are wonderfully soft and great for skiing (if you like a bit of slushy humping) You can slowly see the ground showing through in some places on snow-covered slopes. But in general there is enough snow for now.
I now generally avoid the north-facing slopes in Saalbach. In 9 out of 10 cases, they are just really bad ice rinks.

 

[ChrisC]

I should arrive in Zurich next Thursday 7AM to ski Engelberg first with UK friends:


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[Sbooker]

I’ve done the unthinkable for @jamesdeluxe @Tony Crocker @ChrisC and you other gurus by committing to a week’s “backcountry” guiding/instruction with Snoworks in Tignes/Val on March 16. The decision was based mainly on the excellent experience I had with their off piste week last April. I’m going to look pretty silly if the season turns out to be poor in the Tarantaise.

 

[ChrisC]

I’ve done the unthinkable for @jamesdeluxe @Tony Crocker @ChrisC and you other gurus by committing to a week’s “backcountry” guiding/instruction with Snoworks in Tignes/Val on March 16

I would do something like that: the off-piste and backcountry of Val d'Isere/Tignes is enormous.

I did the Andermatt Freeride Days - Advanced Freeride Course/Guide for 2.5 days in March 2020. Andermatt, Switzerland: March 6, 7 and 8, 2020
I went off on my own for the afternoon of March 8th to ski Sedrun and Disentis and ride the train back to Andermatt (part of the Glacier Express route).

They are still running the courses every March. I would go back.

Freeride Days Home - Freeride Days Andermatt

Freeride Days Andermatt: 3 Tage dreht sich alles rund ums Freeriden. Steep Skiing, Ski Mountaineering, Skitouren, Piste to Powder & Lawinenkurs.

andermatt-freeride.ch

Specifically, I would go back to do more Freeride. But more interesting, they run a Steep Skiing course. Specifically, you learn rappelling into couloirs.

You can mix in Touring courses/days as well. Unfortunately, I have not done a lot of touring.

 

[ChrisC]

I’m going to look pretty silly if the season turns out to be poor in the Tarantaise.

The French Alps likely have the best snow in the entirety of the Alps, and specifically the Tarantaise Valley.


You can see from the Switzerland Map that with a drier yet cool January, many areas are below average or barely average. Only along the French border are snow bases above average.

Snow depth | Snow maps | White Risk

Daily updated snow depth map of Switzerland – Get a detailed overview of the modeled snow depth with the interactive map from SLF White Risk.

whiterisk.ch

Snow Depths are OK.

But it's above normal only around Verbier, normal in Andermatt/Engelberg/Jungfrau and below normal in Eastern Switzerland:

 

[Tony Crocker]

I’m going to look pretty silly if the season turns out to be poor in the Tarantaise.

ChrisC just mentioned above that the Tarantaise has the deepest snow depths in the Alps right now. Poor conditions would be due only to adverse weather in the immediate days leading up to your clinic.

Whether you need to book far ahead depends on how likely the clinic is to sell out. If you have a storm with a bunch of lifts closed, hopefully they will let you defer to another day.

I appreciate ChrisC's detail analysis of current conditions. We will wait until March to decide it we want to go to the Alps after Iron Blosam. Top priorities would be the Dolomites guided off-piste or a return to Zermatt, both of which look like longshots now. Retruning to the Tarantaise where we have been before would need to be compared to alternatives here in North America. Once you get into April, it's hard for anyplace to compete with Mammoth. But we will want to make up for the skiing we aren't doing in February somewhere.

ChrisC:

I have spoken with too many European guides (non-Italian) who have said they have never had a good experience at Monterosa (Gressoney/Alagna) resorts.

I guess we should consider ourselves lucky. In January 2018 we needed to stay above a recent rain line around 2,000 meters, but above that the off piste coverage and surfaces were good.

Saalbach
We've been here since Saturday. The northern slopes may be true until 11 or 12 at the latest, but after that they're all completely rutted and mostly as smooth as glass. On the other hand, all the slopes that get enough sun are wonderfully soft and great for skiing (if you like a bit of slushy humping) You can slowly see the ground showing through in some places on snow-covered slopes. But in general there is enough snow for now.
I now generally avoid the north-facing slopes in Saalbach. In 9 out of 10 cases, they are just really bad ice rinks.

Groomers in all exposures were impeccable in January 2017. Only south facing ungroomed was crusty.

OTOH both of these pleasant experiences were a direct result of our usual strategy. Lodging was booked only a week ahead of time in both Saalbach 2017 and Monterosa 2018.

 

[Sbooker]

I would do something like that: the off-piste and backcountry of Val d'Isere/Tignes is enormous.

I did the Andermatt Freeride Days - Advanced Freeride Course/Guide for 2.5 days in March 2020. Andermatt, Switzerland: March 6, 7 and 8, 2020
I went off on my own for the afternoon of March 8th to ski Sedrun and Disentis and ride the train back to Andermatt (part of the Glacier Express route).

They are still running the courses every March. I would go back.

Freeride Days Home - Freeride Days Andermatt

Freeride Days Andermatt: 3 Tage dreht sich alles rund ums Freeriden. Steep Skiing, Ski Mountaineering, Skitouren, Piste to Powder & Lawinenkurs.

andermatt-freeride.ch

Specifically, I would go back to do more Freeride. But more interesting, they run a Steep Skiing course. Specifically, you learn rappelling into couloirs.

You can mix in Touring courses/days as well. Unfortunately, I have not done a lot of touring.

View attachment 43915




View attachment 43916

That sounds terrific but would be above my paygrade and as my wife is a Francophile probably wouldn't get her enthusiastic support either. I intend on doing a Snoworks course in St Anton next year (they only do one a year) but will probably do that by myself I guess.

 

[Sbooker]

Whether you need to book far ahead depends on how likely the clinic is to sell out

My week is now sold out but they run a ski touring course on the same week that has availability. I will look to book Kylie into morning lessons with specifically a French instructor (ESF would be best bet??) so she can give her French language skills some exposure.

 

[ChrisC]

Yes. You should be fine at Val d'Isere/Tignes as long as a massive high pressure does not sit over Europe for the next 45 days.

I use the following aggregator site to check snow bases throughout the Alps - Bergfex. It's a little challenging to navigate, so I usually go country by country and sort columns on snow bases - summit and/or bottom. New snowfall is only accurate for the German-speaking countries (Austria, Switzerland), with incomplete data for France and Italy.

Bergfex
Austria https://www.bergfex.com/oesterreich/schneewerte/
Switzerland https://www.bergfex.com/schweiz/schneewerte/
France https://www.bergfex.com/frankreich/schneewerte/

Caveat: Glacier resorts will always give a high summit number since glaciers can be thick, but that does not mean most runs are open. They are in their own category. (ie Zermatt, Solden, Pitztal, Saas Fee, etc.)

France:

For example, 3 Vallees - Val Thorens reports 190/120 cm bases, and nearly every major piste in the 3 Vallees is open. I skied 3 Vallees in 2006 with only a max 100-120cm base...great skiing down low meadows; the alpine needs to approach the magic 175-200cm for adequate coverage.

3 Vallees
https://www.les3vallees.com/en/live/lifts-and-trails-opening (Yellow = in preparation)

 

[ChrisC]

Since I will be on my own for the first week of February, I will likely stay in Italy and Switzerland to avoid French crowds—the travel to get to Ste. Foy would not be worth it.

After Englelberg, I will do a combination of:

• Andermatt - Group Guides on Fridays
• Verbier - Group Guides on Wednesdays
• Gstaad
• Glacier 3000 - Les Diablerets
• Zinal-Grimmentz
• Courmayeur - Skyway Monte Bianco/Pt. Helbronner
• Jungfrau - Murren

 

[jamesdeluxe]

I’ve done the unthinkable for @jamesdeluxe @Tony Crocker @ChrisC

Please don't include me in that group of professional second-guessers. My preferences and standard operating procedures don't really apply to the type of ski trips that you go on. I think that your plan sounds great!