Europe 24/25

Arrive in St Moritz on Wednesday and its looking like we might get a bit of a miracle with nearly 3 feet forecasted between now and then. Looks like it should clear up too for a few days too. The guiding office Ive been speaking with said off piste has obviously not been an option of late but fingers crossed this should give us some options.
 
Yes, this is a positive development that the Southern Alps need. But expectations should be tempered a bit.

One positive about Europe is that closed runs are a suggestion, not a requirement, so you can ski anything you want.

However, a 3ft storm in the Alps skis differently than a 3ft storm in, say, Colorado. It is challenging to storm ski in the Alps since there are few trees—heavy vertigo. Also, sometimes, the resorts will close lifts or shut down entirely. Skiing Val d'Isere in 2018, lifts were still coming back online a week after a similar storm. On the same trip, I was caught in an afternoon blizzard in Zermatt after a morning in the Rothorn and Hohtälli areas, but I had a 1:30/2pm lunch reservation at Chez Verony to ride out the storm. While trying to find the lunch cabin by braille in heavy snow, my brother remarked, "You don't really storm ski in the Alps."

Also, the avalanche danger on anything steep with that amount of snow will be off the charts. The storm should not be super cold, so that might allow for layers to bond. However, St. Moritz is like Colorado because it gets very cold, creating hoar layers.

An example of what could go wrong is 3 ft in Zermatt in April 2024 after an extended drought - 3 Dead, including 1 American. Story and video LINK: I am sure some US Ikon pass holders are potentially ready to repeat this in St. Moritz after this storm.

That said, overall, St. Moritz generally has a lot of intermediate terrain and once the storm clears, the mid-mountains of Corvatsch and Corvigilia should be excellent.


Some of EMSC's friends will try to ski the Alps / 3 Vallees in 3-4 days. If they are based in Val Thorens and a storm arrives, you could lose 50% of your ski days. Or skiing could be visually tricky. It can be easy for an American to come away with the opinion, "The Alps suck!"

While skiing St. Anton on a sunny powder day, I wound up with an East Coast American on a chairlift. I remarked on how great the snow was and that you could ski anywhere in powder. He replied, "I like Brighton better. I don't know where to go here." (Me - Brighton??!!) But American skiing does not require anyone to take any responsibility, nor does it require much imagination. Ski hosts abound. A list of recommended runs is omnipresent. Some resorts hand out cookies. Lift queues are expertly managed (not a bad thing). However, it is pretty Disney-fied compared to the Alps. The service and labor costs can be reflected in US lift ticket prices. The Alps are somewhat of a case study in automation and self-determination.
 
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jamesdeluxe said:
Please don't include me in that group of professional second-guessers. :icon-wink:
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It's called storm chasing. :) ;)

Already, my described plans might get thrown out as these storm systems will favor France and the Southern Alps.

However, I see two bases after Engleberg: Sion Valley (to ski Grimmentz/Zinal, and Gstaad) and Courmayeur (to ski Monte Bianco Skyway and others). Andermatt gets storms from the south, so that should be very good.

To ski some remote 5000' vertical descents at Andermatt, 6000' descents at Engelberg, and 7000' at Courmayeur/Monte Bianco, that's why you go to Europe! Or at least me.

One area on my radar that would be great (and right up James' alley) is Crévacol, Italy, up on the St. Bernard Pass between Verbier and Courmayeur/Aosta.

A great overview: Powderhound's Crevacol, I assume, has zero crowds on a weekday, and it would be my private resort. Lift tickets in the USD $30s.

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I likely will spring for a guide for an entire day at Courmayeur. 7000 ft vertical descents should be possible into the village of Courmayeur/Entreves. Some recent 2024/25 reports.


snowbrains.com

Courmayeur, Italy, Report: Skiing Monte Bianco Skyway with Some Cool French Dudes - SnowBrains

Report from Saturday, December 21, 2024 Bonjour. I missed the first bus to Monte Bianco Skyway from Courmayeur. I went home, brewed some espresso, had a bite, and then took the second bus, showing up to the station solo. The place was empty—I was surprised, for a Saturday after decent snowfall...
snowbrains.com snowbrains.com

www.powderhounds.com

Monte Bianco Skiing

Freeride skiing & snowboarding Monte Bianco from Courmayeur includes epic off-piste descents on Toula Glacier & Vallee Blanche. See Powderhounds for more information...
www.powderhounds.com
 
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ChrisC said:
However, a 3ft storm in the Alps skis differently than a 3ft storm in, say, Colorado. It is challenging to storm ski in the Alps since there are few trees—heavy vertigo. Also, sometimes, the resorts will close lifts or shut down entirely.
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Yes, that's why Liz and I run away from storms in the Alps, especially ones with snow levels up at 2,000 meters. With a choice or rain or vertigo we go somewhere else.
1) In Jan. 2017 after 2 weeks skiing in Austria we went to Venice for 3 days, then finished up at Ischgl, which is mostly above that 2,000 meter level.
2) In Jan. 2018 despite landing in Geneva, we were skiing in the Dolomites 2 days later to avoid a storm hitting the NW side of the Alps. The Monterosa (mentioned earlier in this thread) was our next stop after the storm was over.
3) In Apr. 2022 after 2 weeks in Val Thorens and the Upper Rhone Valley we spent 3 Alps storm days in the Cinque Terre. We returned to the Tarantaise, skied a nice day at Les Arcs, then a very springy day at La Plagne as Sahara dust moved overhead. That weather was predicted to continue, so we drove across Italy and spent 2 days in Slovenia before catching our flight out of Venice to a pre-booked Adriatic tour.
4) In Jan. 2024 we got off the hill in the Jungfrau just ahead of one of those 2,000 meter snow line storms and spent the next 2+ days in Dijon/Burgundy before a pre-scheduled week in Val d'Isere.
ChrisC said:
Also, the avalanche danger on anything steep with that amount of snow will be off the charts.
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Yes, being in an avalanche exposed resort during/immediately after the first big dump of the season is not that great, and that's not just in the Alps. On Dec. 24 this year Snowbird was only 34% open on 89 inches season snowfall. It snowed 35 inches during the holiday week but Snowbird was only 52% open Dec. 31. During the first week of January Snowbird gradually opened up to 90%.
Sbooker said:
I’ve done the unthinkable for @jamesdeluxe @Tony Crocker @ChrisC and you other gurus by committing to a week’s “backcountry” guiding/instruction with Snoworks in Tignes/Val on March 16.
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Not really. Given sbooker's challenging home location, investment in instruction makes a lot of sense, particularly in the Alps where you get the bonus of guided navigation along with it. Advance commitment in the Alps is sort of like advance commitment at Christmas in North America. In term of snow reliability, there's a very short list of resorts where that's a good idea. Since both Val Thorens and Val d'Isere are on that short list, sbooker's plan is quite reasonable. We have advance booked both of those resorts ourselves, plus I've done it at the Sandhof in Lech twice. Sbooker should really sign up for Piste-to-Powder in St. Anton sometime (caveat Jan/early Feb. for the sunny exposure) even if he has to twist Kylie's arm to go along with that.

But overall in the Alps sbooker should be following Liz' and my strategy.
1) He's there by himself or with no more than 3 other people so can fit in one car rental.
2) He's there for at least two weeks at a time.
3) Kylie would undoubtedly enjoy the non-ski diversions such as I enumerated above instead of trying to ski on bad weather days.

By contrast EMSC and skiandgolfnut are more constrained.
1) They are in the Alps for one week or less.
2) They have larger groups. The larger the group, the less flexible it can be.
ChrisC said:
It can be easy for an American to come away with the opinion, "The Alps suck!"
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That was Liz after a week in Chamonix in 2001 with the dreaded weather sandwich of rain below 2,000 meters and no visibility where it was snowing. She had one decent ski day when her group had a bus trip to Verbier. Kingslug was also swearing off the Alps after a week of manmade hardpack in Solden. In general I would say an advance booked week in the Alps has at least twice the odds of some form of very bad conditions as one in western North America. You need to accept those odds for the unique upside of terrain like ChrisC describes or low competition powder days, James' specialty. The only way you're moving those odds is being flexible on your resort choice less than one week ahead.
Advance commitment in the Alps is sort of like advance commitment at Christmas in North America. In term of snow reliability, there's a very short list of resorts where that's a good idea.
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Zermatt and St. Moritz are on somewhat the opposite list, especially if you have any interest in off piste. Do not book until there is adequate snow on the ground. This generally means you will be there in March or later, which is just fine because both places have lots of terrain with good snow preservation. Liz and I got lucky with the powder in Zermatt in Feb. 2014, but we signed up the trip in early January after assurances from Fraser that there was already a decent snowpack. St. Moritz on Jan. 2019 was another case of landing in Geneva and putting in several hours of drive time because the eastern Alps had been hammered by several Nordstau events over the previous month.
 
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Totally. My only shitty days in the alps have been storm days with bad visibility. I can handle cruising sunshine and food/wine for a 4/5 day trip no problem. Storm skiing with no trees, Id just rather not ski. Luckily the bulk of the snow looks to be over by Tuesday and we don't ski until Wednesday. Forecast rest of the week looks potentially clear. We will have a guide and obviously be very careful. I dont have super high expectations about the off piste but given St Moritz is generally low competition for powder and loads of lift accessed mellow terrain I'm cautiously optimistic and certainly feel better than I would have coming over there out of a 3 week drought. This is my group's first time in Europe so I feel somewhat responsible for everyone enjoying themselves, especially if I want to get them back. First impressions are important.
 
skiandgolfnut said:
This is my group's first time in Europe so I feel somewhat responsible for everyone enjoying themselves, especially if I want to get them back. First impressions are important.
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The World always looks better with 3 feet of snow layered upon it. St. Moritz is super scenic. I liked it much better than I thought I would. Skiing-wise, it's in a different league than Megeve, Gstaad or Kitzbuhel. Perhaps its only ultra-high-end equivalent might be Lech or Courchevel. However, it's not crowded, and its altitude preserves the valley snow, maybe the best in the Alps. And you must love the string of alpine lakes running through the Engadin Valley.

Comparatively, looking at the south-facing foothills across from Aspen Mountain is rather underwhelming. Pesonally, Park City and Deer Valley have some of the worst vistas/panoramas in the Rocky Mountain ski country. Looking out to brown I-80 suburban sprawl is not my thing. It's great to live there but will not reach the top 10 most scenic ski areas list (or top 50). You can add Steamboat to my list, too - nice snow up high, but the Yampa Valley - meh! Lots of the Rockies can overlook big arid valleys, which have their own charm, but it is not always alpine.

Having a guide split across groups is a great idea. Takes the pressure off of you. They know what pistes/off-piste to ski, what restaurants/refugios to eat at, when and who to call to get a good table.

The Times UK seems to really like St. Moritz. They put it at #1 on their Top 20 of the Alps list. Conde Nast always puts it up there, too.

You should find out if your lodging qualifies you for the cheap lift tickets - ~$45-50/day. You generally purchase at accommodation. It's quite the comparison that 5 days in St. Moritz is still cheaper than 1 day in Vail/Aspen (or Steamboat or Park City). And maybe 5 days + daily guide is 2 days in the US.

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Anyway, I liked St. Moritz so much that I ignored everything -like COVID- in March 2020 - skiing away at Corvatsch, Diavolezza, and Corviglia while the world shut down. I was MAGA before an official MAGA position/attitude on COVID existed. :oops:;)

To be fair, I had just been to Japan/Hokkaido for a week around February 1st when the disease seemed to be managed, and Chinese visitors were simply being restricted/quarantined when they entered Japan. How can you not just manage a disease?
 
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Tony Crocker said:
By contrast EMSC and skiandgolfnut are more constrained.
1) They are in the Alps for one week or less.
2) They have larger groups. The larger the group, the less flexible it can be.
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I'm just over a week on the ground. Land on Monday March 10th @ 6:30am and fly out following tues the 18th at ~10am.

Current plan is to ski on the Sun/Mon at the end of the trip "somewhere else". Of course that will be either 3 or 4 of us doing that instead of the whole group (similar to how 4 of us added Silverton to end of last years group trip). I'm currently pushing for that sub-set to hold off on making any hard plans until we are at least much closer to the trip if not even until we are about to land (eg ~1 week in advance).

Chris, keep up the good work in publishing Euro conditions! I have not built up anything resembling a network or set of websites for over the pond. So all the stuff you are posting is great information for both me and my group as I pass a few snippets along to them the old fashioned way (email).

Any good spots within a couple hours of 3 valleys? Lol. Like a million ski areas of course, but how many that the 'experts' group might want to check out. I think we will have an SUV or even small van. Prices for rental vehicle is about the same as the price of Alpybus one way. Still a hassle to park it at 3 Valleys most of a week, but price wise and flexibility wise for final 2 days probably worth it.
 
Good luck and safe travels gents! I myself am currently sitting in the airport: Destination Zürich. Target 1 Vorarlberg. Target 2 midweek TBD... If it’s good, stick close. If new scenery is in order, possibly Graubunden and follow the refresh that seems inbound.
Cheers to all.
 
EMSC said:
how many that the 'experts' group might want to check out.
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Val d'Isere/Tignes is the obvious choice. With only two days you might want to make the first one guided.

Jnelly:
Target 2 midweek TBD... If it’s good, stick close.
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From what ChrisC posted about snowpack, you'll want to go west of Zurich and possibly higher. Engelberg and Andermatt are good choices if you're advanced skiers interested in off-piste and not that far from Zurich. For more scenery and cruisers, perhaps the Jungfrau region or Upper Rhone Valley.

As for more southern locations like St. Moritz, what's coming is a good start but much more is needed to make a proactive decision to go there. If there are more such storms over the next 6 weeks, maybe I'll get a shot at some of those places like ChrisC did last year. But going south a week from now is way premature.

Big picture is that James, Liz and I share ChrisC's enthusiasm for St. Moritz on all points he mentions. But all 3 of us skied there when there was plenty of snow on the ground.
 
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EMSC said:
Current plan is to ski on the Sun/Mon at the end of the trip "somewhere else". Of course that will be either 3 or 4 of us doing that instead of the whole group (similar to how 4 of us added Silverton to end of last years group trip). I'm currently pushing for that sub-set to hold off on making any hard plans until we are at least much closer to the trip if not even until we are about to land (eg ~1 week in advance).
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Tony Crocker said:
Val d'Isere/Tignes is the obvious choice. With only two days you might want to make the first one guided.
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I concur with Tony; Val d'Isere/Tignes is the obvious choice - scale, proximate location, prominent off-piste zones (entrance finding can be tricky), snowfall, and snow preservation. The resort is a series of valleys strung together with many freeride areas between the valleys - and, most importantly, the far end of eastern Val d'Isere or western Tignes (biggest vertical, fewest crowds, powder for days).

Alternatives:
Ste. Foy and La Rosiere/La Thuile. Both are near the 3 Vallees, just a few minutes outside Bourg Ste. Maurice. Both are not too crowded and preserve powder (Note: I have not been to Ste. Foy, but it has the reputation of where 3V & Val/Tignes guides/instructors go on their day off), but the quality and scale of the terrain. However, La Rosiere supposedly gets the most snow in the valley since storms funnel into the San Bernardo pass and dump.

Chamonix. The Aiguille du Midi hits prime time in March/April with its intense north-side couloirs filled in - Cosmiques, Glacier Ronde, etc. (Note: I have never skied these). As well as routes (Grand Envers, etc) that join the traditional Vallee Blanche. However, conditions need to be just right. Also, you have skied Chamonix before. And the replacement cable car to the summit of Les Grand Montets is still under construction. So, a pass on Chamonix.

Courmayeur. Lots of N&E off-piste from the summit (Arp) at the resort proper and the Skyway. However, Courmayeur is lower in elevation (will affect snow by mid-March), and the Skyway faces south (best mid-winter). Although La Thuile/Rosiere is nearby, I would pass on it - especially compared to high altitude Val/Tignes.

Verbier. This a strong contender: high altitude, tons of steep terrain, and lots of obvious off-piste. You could likely follow/tag along with groups - some freeride terrain is skied so much that it gets safer and consolidated - like the Bowl at Aspen Highlands. It is Europe's best lift-served freeride terrain that maximizes vertical/ski time—few long traverses are required (except the back of Mont Fort). Coulior entrances can be a bit hidden: Banana, Stairway to Heaven, etc - but you can figure things out. The only downsides are a longer drive from 3 Vallees and staying in Verbier proper, which can be $$ pricey. It's relatively small, so food and lodging are costly. Other higher-end resorts are large enough to find something semi-reasonable (Zermatt, St. Moritz, Lech/St. Anton, Val d'Isere/Tignes) if you look and even make some phone calls.

La Grave/Alpe d'Huez/Les 2 Alpes. You have done that.

Andermatt/Engelberg. Great areas, but too far away.

Some other potential choices: La Clusaz, Les Contamines, Flaine. They all have interesting expert zones, but smaller.

I purchased an Outside Magazine book years ago (~2000) with longer articles and descriptions about 'great' areas - with expert bent. For Europe, they picked: Chamonix, Val d'Isere/Tignes, Verbier, and St. Anton. More or less, I agree with this assessment/recommendation.

Unless someone in your group always wanted to ski Verbier, you should book for Val d'Isere/Tignes. Lodging for 2 nights can be tricky (sometimes there are minimums, maybe 3 nights?), so you likely need the lead time to find something. Tignes has more apartments and can be slightly less expensive. However, I prefer Val d'Isere due to its semi-historic village, freeride terrain areas, and familiarity with some restaurants/bars/on-mountain eateries/guide offices. Also, it has more trees for a storm day. It is less of a French experience since so many Brits go there.

Also, if you want a guide for a day, you need to book almost a month out to find someone. Generally, one side of the complex might be favored. Tignes side can get more snowfall, but The Retour d'est storms favor Val d'Isere (the east side that abuts Italy). Winds, too, can impact the alpine - they did on my trip in 2024. - Val d'Isere eastern faces were exposed to the Westerlies. Guides know what is good - and they all communicate with each other so they understand the unskied areas. It is easy to repeat anything on your own.

Even if there is no new snow, the terrain is vast - with some steeper areas to ski/couloirs. The Tignes Glacier is unique. Val d'Isere's Glacier is slightly less spectacular but offers tons of easy off-piste. Apres-ski starts on the hill at many locations at 2/3 pm...Ending at 5/6pm.

However, if I were in Geneva for a 2-day weekend, I would immediately go to Verbier since it's closer, and the freeride is more easily accessible. Also, it has yellow off-piste itineraries that are avalanche-controlled but otherwise are unmaintained. (Or Chamonix and/or Courmayeur).
 
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EMSC said:
I think we will have an SUV or even small van. Prices for rental vehicle is about the same as the price of Alpybus one way. Still a hassle to park it at 3 Valleys most of a week, but price wise and flexibility wise for final 2 days probably worth it.
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If you add mountains outside 3 Vallees, getting a car makes sense. I always make 2 SUV reservations in Geneva (or just in life). Often, rental car companies will run out and try to upsell or whatever. I simply have someone else go to car reservation #2 and get a car through the backup reservation. This was incredibly important in 2018 when Hertz tried to screw us, and we wound up with a new Alpha Romeo SUV from Enterprise.

Again, make sure you understand whether you are renting in France or Switzerland.

I am not sure where you are staying in 3 Vallees. If Val Thorens, there are three parking garages. Garage 1 or 2 are in the village. Garage 3 is the lowest and outside the town, requiring a longer walk - not bad, but not optimal. We took a bus to Meribel years ago, so I am unfamiliar with parking challenges. But make sure you have a reservation - or have it confirmed.
 
Tony Crocker said:
ChrisC:
I guess we should consider ourselves lucky. In January 2018 we needed to stay above a recent rain line around 2,000 meters, but above that the off piste coverage and surfaces were good.
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I should not write Monterosa off completely. I would love to return sometime with snow. Supposedly, the Southern Alps can get some early winter Mediterranean storms to set them up for a season / establish a base - and you are safe to book.

There was some year in the mid-2010s when the Dolomites were just hammered with snow, and the North side had nothing. Not sure how often that happens and if the storm track also supports Aosta Valley areas, Zermatt, St. Morit,z and Obergurgl.

The Snowbrains guys did this in Winter 2017/18 - skied in Monterosa in April. Link

And there is this amazing tour from Gressoney - Heli to Monte Rosa summit, ski into Zermatt via the Schwarz Glacier or similar (think Tonydid this part from Zermatt), ascend Zermatt lifts to Klein Matterhorn, ski into Italy via Cervinia and freeride into Champoluc, connect back to Gressoney. Link

Some Day maybe.......probably would need to assemble your own crew....not too late in the year due to some south-facing terrain.

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ChrisC said:
There was some year in the mid-2010s when the Dolomites were just hammered with snow
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Probably 2014, when Fraser told me at New Year's that Zermatt already had a deep snowpack.

I have nothing to add to the excellent skiing detail ChrisC provided about Val d'Isere and Verbier. If you want Verbier you can stay down the hill in Le Chable for a reasonable price or elsewhere within 15-20 minutes drive of the gondola base there. There's an online Swiss lift ticket site where you can load direct-to-lift passes for several Swiss areas in the Upper Rhone and avoid a considerable wait at the Le Chable ticket window.

ChrisC said:
It is Europe's best lift-served freeride terrain that maximizes vertical/ski time—few long traverses are required (except the back of Mont Fort). Coulior entrances can be a bit hidden: Banana, Stairway to Heaven, etc - but you can figure things out.
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Last year was the first tine I could explore much at Verbier. At age 71 I passed on some possibilities I might have considered a few years ago. EMSC has a similar ski profile as ChrisC and would find much to like there. But overall given the time and logistics Val d'Isere is still obvious this time. And yes if ChrisC says you need to make the guide reservation now, you should do that. If some of EMSC's group is more my level than his, I think there is more enjoyable off-piste at Val d'Isere than at Verbier. I tried to convince Liz and James to come with me a couple of places there that they would have enjoyed, but James was suffering from his hip injury and Liz was being cautious fresh off her knee replacement.
 
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Tony Crocker said:
But overall given the time and logistics Val d'Isere is still obvious this time
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Yes, the decision is glaringly apparent. The Val d'Isere/Tignes complex is Global Top 10 - if not Top 5. Yes, core areas and return-to-base areas can be crowded, but meanwhile, you can be the only skiers in Col Pers (the far east of Val d'Isere - 4k vertical with low expert pitch top to bottom; it's a mile-wide zone) or Grand Vallon (3k, more tracks). Or out in the remote far west of Tignes in Vallon de Sache (3-4k vertical). Or some remote in-between valley areas. Or it's couloirs.

If I had to pick some global top 5, mine would be in no particular order: Whistler, St. Anton/Arlberg, Val d'Isere/Tignes, Niseko (constant snow, open hike-to terrain, culture, and another ???? (Telluride?(not enough terrain), a placeholder for all cat/heli-skiing in BC?, Chugach of Valdez, Alaska? Las Lenas? IDK....Alta/Snowbird (better candidate than Jackson due to season length and exposure) Anyways, you get my drift...

Tony Crocker said:
If some of EMSC's group is more my level than his, I think there is more enjoyable off-piste at Val d'Isere than at Verbier.
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This is true. Verbier's terrain is generally steeper, more technical, and includes more couloirs. And some of its major off-piste zones can show moguls. Meanwhile, Val d'Isere has more open, uncrowded zones that are high intermediate/low expert that you can rip at higher speeds. Val d'Isere, too, has better trees for storm days. Similarly, Verbier has Bruson (tree-lined), but this is the only sector of the 4 Vallees I have not skied.
 
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The weather storm track seems to be deciding my trip for me.

Looking online, it appears this is becoming an exceptional year for Courmayeur. Its valleys: Val d'Aosta (southern storms) and Val Veny (western storms) allow storms from either S or W to hit Courmayeur - which they have been doing regularly. To see the backside/south side of Mont Blanc (i.e., Monte Bianco/Pt Helbronner/Skyway) skiing top-to-bottom in late December is rare and looks only to be getting better.

Courmayeur's off-piste is familiar, and I would feel comfortable skiing with people I meet. Guided groups are reasonable, too. Also, Italy is such a better value than elsewhere in the Alps, with food/lodging 25% cheaper..... or the quality is much higher.

I wanted to add some 'new' areas, but it will likely be limited to Gstaad (perhaps too low for these upcoming storms) or Zinal, and Crevacol on the pass.

Again, snow makes or breaks a trip. For example, the Dutch weather guy Meteo Morris who built some models for the site WePowder and likely contributed to its superb guidebook WePowder: The Alps....He's based himself in the Southern Alps, including Courmayeur this week. There is 120-150cm at the base (1500m).



Similarly, Andermatt gets storms from valleys North, West, and South. The Andermatt Guide office is showing excellent conditions on IG/FB.

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We love a good refill from the south! ❄️❄️❄️ #skiing #freeride #backcountryskiing #skiinginandermatt | Andermatt - Guides

We love a good refill from the south! ❄️❄️❄️ #skiing #freeride #backcountryskiing #skiinginandermatt.
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ChrisC said:
Courmayeur. Its valleys: Val d'Aosta (southern storms) and Val Veny (western storms) allow storms from either S or W to hit Courmayeur - which they have been doing regularly.
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I wonder if at the far more intermediate level Cervinia has some of these climatic advantages. Yes it's on the opposite side of Aosta but mostly west facing. It was so loaded with snow in January 2018 (same time ChrisC was at Val d'Isere) and per Fraser had the most snow in the Alps during that banner season. That can't all have been from southern storms.

Within lift service boundaries Courmayeur is essentially a one-day area. Those long and spectacular off piste descents depend upon the low elevations not being melt/frozen like when I was there in 2004. But expert skiers should be monitoring weather/conditioons to take advantage when it's right.
Las Lenas?
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Yes there are people like Joe Lammers who guided there (Adam was in his group in 2005) who rate Las Lenas top 5 in the world. We are still waiting for ChrisC's TR, but he said enough at the time that I know he really scored the rare combination of great conditions with Marte open. I had to spend a total of 3 weeks there to get a handful of days like that.

It's hard to say how AltaBird wouldn't make any expert's top 5. These days that may mean you're not commuting from SLC on powder days to ski there though.
 
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Tony Crocker said:
I wonder if at the far more intermediate level Cervinia has some of these climatic advantages. Yes it's on the opposite side of Aosta but mostly west facing. It was so loaded with snow in January 2018 (same time ChrisC was at Val d'Isere) and per Fraser had the most snow in the Alps during that banner season. That can't all have been from southern storms.
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The "WePowder Guide: The Alps" tries to give optimal storm trajectories for most snowfall. Unfortunately, they lump Zermatt and Cervinia together as Matterhorn Ski Paradise, but they indicate that S/SW storms are the best, with W also being excellent for this complex. Same with Thuile. Same with St. Moritz. Monterosa is S/SW and a lesser extent SE. No W - likely getting blocked by Cervinia, etc.

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Tony Crocker said:
It's hard to say how AltaBird wouldn't make any expert's top 5. These days that may mean you're not commuting from SLC on powder days to ski there though.
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I would agree with that.

I looked in my "Outside Mag: Best Worldwide Destination" ...for North America, and they picked five areas as 'classic': Aspen, Alta & Snowbird, Jackson Hole, Squaw Valley, Whistler & Blackcomb. Fair enough. Alta/Snowbird likely has an edge on Jackson for season length, exposure, snow quantity, snow quality, expert footprint size, etc. Aspen (+3 sister areas) represents a classic Rocky Mountain mining town.

Tony Crocker said:
Within lift service boundaries Courmayeur is essentially a one-day area. Those long and spectacular off piste descents depend upon the low elevations not being melt/frozen like when I was there in 2004. But expert skiers should be monitoring weather/conditioons to take advantage when it's right.
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I am stumbling upon 'the right' conditions for Courmayeur, which do not happen often, especially for the south-facing Monte Bianco Skyway (https://www.montebianco.com/en). It's like a mini-La Grave (one insane 7k lift, but not as many routes down). I have not skied this zone, so I look forward to it. And guide prices are almost 50% less than in Switzerland. And a second day at Courmayeur proper focusing on the Youla and Arp trams would be great.

And yes, Courmayeur is a one-day mountain for most skiers. (Most of James' under-the-radar Euro ski areas are larger). La Thuile/Rosiere has a lot more to offer. However, having skied Chamonix last year for 2 days after Val d'Isere, I can appreciate Courmayeur's smaller-scale village, excellent food, and fewer freeride crowds. The quality is there for off-piste skiing, and quantity is there, too, if conditions are right. Also, I have been lucky enough to ski with the heli operation based in Courmayeur, accessing Mont Blanc. That is another possibility again; you can reserve one week ahead versus one year in North America.

Tony Crocker said:
We are still waiting for ChrisC's TR, but he said enough at the time that I know he really scored the rare combination of great conditions with Marte open.
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The number of photos is overwhelming, and I lose interest after I complete something, but I will get around to it. My computer is no longer importing my photos correctly, creating a bit of a bottleneck on where to edit. Las Lenas during the early week was phenomenal, but a low snowfall/high wind storm messed with conditions/operations later in the week - about 3.5-4 terrific days on Marte. The downtime gave the opportunity to explore the lower mountain.
 
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EMSC said:
I have not built up anything resembling a network or set of websites for over the pond. So all the stuff you are posting is great information for both me and my group as I pass a few snippets along to them the old fashioned way (email).
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Some sites and social media accounts I follow for Europe:
Some interesting European ski sites.


I'll get to some resort-specific links I dump into folders and social media accounts.


I liked this advice from the Powderhounds site:

Best Times to Ski Europe with Low Crowds​
It should go without saying that sleeping in until 10 am & starting skiing at 11 is not a good crowd avoidance strategy. Dress for the cold, get to the first lifts & let it rip for a couple of hours of bliss. Have an early lunch & then hit it again when everyone else heads in for theirs.​
​
In a broader sense, the following is the rule of thumb for the best times to ski in Europe with low crowds:​
  • November & December before Christmas;
  • January after the first week;
  • Middle two weeks of March;
  • April whenever Easter isn’t; and
  • *Saturdays in some French resorts
Times to avoid if you don’t like too many humans sharing your powder:​
  • Christmas / New year period (everywhere);
  • French school holidays – particularly when Zone C (Paris & districts) is on holiday (mainly for French ski resorts);
  • *Weekends;
  • Competition events;
  • Mid to late February (It is high season in ski resorts for a reason!).
 
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ChrisC said:
I am stumbling upon 'the right' conditions for Courmayeur, which do not happen often, especially for the south-facing Monte Bianco Skyway (https://www.montebianco.com/en). It's like a southerly mini-La Grave (one lift, but not as many routes down). I have not skied this zone, so I look forward to it. And guide prices are almost 50% less than in Switzerland. And a second day at Courmayeur proper focusing on the Youla and Arp trams would be great.
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I spent 4 days in Courmayeur last year early March. I thought the combination of the village, skyway, access to La Thuille and ease of access from major airports made it a home run. I was too late in the season like Tony said and the snow quality on the lower portions of any off piste routes off of yula/arp were cooked by then. But there was plenty of great north facing areas at La Thuille and the Vallee Blanche was still fantastic. I think I posted somewhere here after my trip video of my cousin skiing the front side of the skyway. It required climbing a fence and putting your skis on in a couloir I wound up watching and going and getting a glass of wine instead while I waited. There was a ton of potential in that sector. It did not have the scale of some places but it packed a lot of what I love about the alps into a convenient and well priced trip.
 
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