A-Basin vs. Ski Cooper for half day?

[Tony Crocker]

Since we're not really interested in back bowls

A truly astonishing statement, as what, 95+% of skiers would say the back bowls are what elevates Vail above most of its regional competition. I'd say at least 2/3 of the terrain back there is intermediate accessible, and they even groom some of it. Perhaps I was wrong about GPaul taking his ski vacations in the East since he seems to prefer the WROD.

 

[gpaulski]

Only 2 runs groomed in BB, and those are VERY nice and long, off Two Elks Lodge.

 

[ChrisC]

Will Vail/Beaver Creek get to 50% open by Dec. 19? Maybe. Telluride by Dec. 23? Unlikely. Crested Butte by Dec. 27? It would take a miracle. Results will be posted here.

If forced to commit in advance I would easily take Tahoe over Crested Butte in January.

GPaul might get lucky for the Telluride portion.

Overall, a very slow start to the season. It was on track to be the worst Christmas since 1999 when there was only an 18" reported base. At that level - maybe 25-30% of the mountain was open.

The reported base pre this weekend storms was 18". Also, Telluride is forced to spend too much time/effort on the World Cup Snowboard/SkierCross course.

However, the new storm track look VERY favorable for Telluride. Storms the hit from the south (like this weekend) tend to get shredded by the San Juans. However this next storm looks to come from the West/Northwest. They are predicting 10-20" with up to 30". This should allow the mountain to open almost all of the intermediate terrain. Most of the mountain can open with 36-40" base.

The real question is whether chair 9 can open by the time GPaul visits. Perhaps Telluride's most unique terrain is groomed steeps for 1500-2500 vert of Plunge, Bushwaker, Lookout, Coonskin overlooking town and valley. I would bet on yes.

One final note: Experts should never visit Telluride until Feb 1st+. The issue is the new terrain on Gold Hill and Palmyra Peak. The Gold Hill chutes are some of the most extreme couloirs in North America, and should not be missed. They do not open until Feb. In fact - some of the really crazy lines GH #2 and #3 generally only open in March. Given this is all in-bounds, Telluride's % open will always look bad.


Some great reference maps: http://www.tellurideoffpiste.com/index.html

 

[Tony Crocker]

6% open a week before Christmas sounds worse than 1999. I think they will need all 30" to get Chair 9 going.

One final note: Experts should never visit Telluride until Feb 1st+. The issue is the new terrain on Gold Hill and Palmyra Peak. The Gold Hill chutes are some of the most extreme couloirs in North America, and should not be missed. They do not open until Feb. In fact - some of the really crazy lines GH #2 and #3 generally only open in March. Given this is all in-bounds, Telluride's % open will always look bad.

This is the reason I recommend people never book Crested Butte or Taos before Feb. 1. Telluride has historically not been as expert weighted, but the new Gold Hill and Palmyra terrain are definitely in that class. I will have to get back there to ski those sometime.

 

[ChrisC]

6% open a week before Christmas sounds worse than 1999. I think they will need all 30" to get Chair 9 going.

One final note: Experts should never visit Telluride until Feb 1st+. The issue is the new terrain on Gold Hill and Palmyra Peak. The Gold Hill chutes are some of the most extreme couloirs in North America, and should not be missed. They do not open until Feb. In fact - some of the really crazy lines GH #2 and #3 generally only open in March. Given this is all in-bounds, Telluride's % open will always look bad.

This is the reason I recommend people never book Crested Butte or Taos before Feb. 1. Telluride has historically not been as expert weighted, but the new Gold Hill and Palmyra terrain are definitely in that class. I will have to get back there to ski those sometime.

Telluride will likely just preserve all the snow until Christmas week and then open what they can. They currently have a Thanksgiving offering -- and behind terrain openings by 3 weeks.

Big issue: instead of making snow on core trails (Telluride Trail, Lookout, Palmyra, Woozley's Way, Chair 10) they needed to focus on creating terrain features on Misty Maiden on Chair 4.

You should probably update your recs for expert skiers not visiting pre-Feb 1st. Generally the expert skiing is better April 1st vs. Feb 1st -- and peaks in March.

GPaul should consider a stop in Monarch vs. Crested Butte. They have gotten quite a bit of snow recently.

 

[EMSC]

Telluride will likely just preserve all the snow until Christmas week and then open what they can

I get the feeling that a lot of Colo resorts are waiting to see what tonight's storm brings to the party and then will open up more terrain late week just in time for the weekend crowds... I was sure surprised to see a foot of new being reported at Eldora this am too! one of the highest daily snowfall reports in Colo today. I should make it up there tomorrow for some turns.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Vail and Beaver Creek have opened a bit more since the weekend. Vail is at 27% open and Beaver Creek 51%.

Telluride is at 7% and Crested Butte at 11%. Monarch may be better than CB but GPaul has 8+ days and a car after Vail. 2 days driving to/from SLC and 6 days of quality skiing while there does not seem outlandish to me. This is barely more driving than he'll do getting to Telluride and CB and then back to Denver.

At lunch today I ran into a lady from Texas and her elementary school daughter. They were scheduled to be in Durango this week, pulled the plug and came to Mammoth instead. Like johnnash last year they are glad they made the last minute switch.

It is possible to improve one's vacation late in the game if the will is there. GPaul doesn't even have to deal with the airlines like the lady from Texas did.

 

[EMSC]

It will be interesting to see what, if any new terrain opens up Thurs or Fri at the big resorts. Remember that for Vail, the slight % increase in terrain is actually something like 500 acres worth. Makes me wonder if it is simply the speed of patrol rope and hazard marking.

For those keeping track. It is supposed to be dry through sunday before the next storm for colorado on mon/tues (Christmas eve/day). Though that is pretty far into the future to forecast.

And hey , at least Johnnash keeps taking our advice and getting better snow than sticking to i70 during its worst snow periods in a long time.

As for me, I got the privledge of staying home with a sick 2 yr old instead of hitting the powder today... grumble, grumble...

 

[Tony Crocker]

Generally the expert skiing is better April 1st vs. Feb 1st -- and peaks in March.

I agree.

However, the new storm track look VERY favorable for Telluride. Storms the hit from the south (like this weekend) tend to get shredded by the San Juans. However this next storm looks to come from the West/Northwest. They are predicting 10-20" with up to 30". This should allow the mountain to open almost all of the intermediate terrain. Most of the mountain can open with 36-40" base.

The storm total since Sunday was 9 inches. Perhaps even local advisor ChrisC would tell GPaul to bail out now. ChrisC has told us that Telluride has a decent track record of getting those chair 9 runs open by Christmas. For that reason I did not advise against Telluride as I did Crested Butte at the time of GPaul's initial inquiry. But sometimes you catch a bad break. Nonetheless there's no reason to stay fixed if you have an option for something better.

 

[Tony Crocker]

Bet is on. What will it be? Nice fat steak and cold beer?

Sounds like almost a done deal now. Just to be generous, I will also pay off the bet if GPaul bails out of Telluride and Crested Butte. I know, never make a bet that is entirely under the other person's control. But there's a track record here so I'm not too worried. C'mon GPaul, prove me wrong!

 

[socal]

I guess as an intermediate it could be worse but Crested Butte doesn't sound like a good choice even with 3 ft of snow in the past 7 days:

Terrain Open
Total 38%
Beginner & Intermediate 45%
Advanced 1%
Extreme 0%

 

[Admin]

Here ya go, Gpaul, this may come in handy:
http://m.prnewswire.com/news-releases/w ... 06341.html

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note II using Tapatalk 2

 

[ChrisC]

The storm total since Sunday was 9 inches. Perhaps even local advisor ChrisC would tell GPaul to bail out now. ChrisC has told us that Telluride has a decent track record of getting those chair 9 runs open by Christmas. For that reason I did not advise against Telluride as I did Crested Butte at the time of GPaul's initial inquiry. But sometimes you catch a bad break. Nonetheless there's no reason to stay fixed if you have an option for something better.

Telluride really did not get enough snow for G-Paul's visit. However, it is really hard to storm chase with company and at Christmas. He could always take a day to hike end of box canyon, cross country up at Lizard Head, hot springs and ice climbers in Ouray for a change of pace.

I understand they will open Chair 5 runs, Prospect Bowl (Chair 12) and Chair 10. However, the front side does not have enough snow at bottom of 9.

This could be remedied by snow on Monday.....

 

[Tony Crocker]

However, it is really hard to storm chase with company and at Christmas.

Maybe, but it's best not to make these dumb decisions in the first place. Recall that when GPaul first made his inquiry about SW Colorado and New Mexico, I advised that he go there for his Easter week vacation, which in 2013 has the attraction of Easter falling on March 30. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10264

I have a little bit of sympathy about Telluride as those chair 9 groomers are GPaul's cup of tea and in the majority of Christmas seasons he would get to ski them. For Crested Butte on the other hand I have zero sympathy, not only for its dismal early season track record but because it really doesn't have all that much of GPaul's favored terrain. In the reference above Crested Butte was specifically mentioned as the least appropriate for GPaul among a fairly long list of resorts in CO/NM.

 

[socal]

LCC and BCC are obvious. Really great day at solitude today. No one here, no clouds, 30 degress, and nice snow conditions on and off trail.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[EMSC]

Crested Butte was specifically mentioned as the least appropriate for GPaul among a fairly long list of resorts in CO/NM

Might be ever so slightly more appropriate for groomers than Taos, IMHO... But generally speaking, don't ski CB till Feb 1... Maybe he will drive over to Monarch which got blasted with deep snow the past week+ and is nearly fully open (but then again Monarch isn't exactly known for long runs).

Then again Steamboat even is bumping up toward 90% open... Maybe he can be convinced to divert there since it's only a couple hour drive not an all day one? I dunno. Fairly crowded holiday groomers there though.

 

[Admin]

Then again Steamboat even is bumping up toward 90% open... Maybe he can be convinced to divert there since it's only a couple hour drive not an all day one? I dunno. Fairly crowded holiday groomers there though.

And none of them steep as he purported likes.

Funny how we live vicariously through this guy's trip planning like none other.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note II using Tapatalk 2

 

[Tony Crocker]

Might be ever so slightly more appropriate for groomers than Taos, IMHO

I disagree. There aren't a lot of long groomers at Taos, but the ones there are on chairs 7&8 have sustained pitch and GPaul would like them a lot.

We are now on the weekend and Crested Butte is up to 30% thanks to last week's storm but Telluride is still at 11%.

Then again Steamboat even is bumping up toward 90% open... Maybe he can be convinced to divert there since it's only a couple hour drive not an all day one?

Presumably the sticking point is the prepaid lodging at Telluride and Crested Butte. Suppose in the current weather scenario you decide to bail on just Telluride. Steamboat to CB is not a trivial drive and at Steamboat you'll be paying resort prices. The advantage of SLC is that lodging can be cheap even during the holidays, so the pain of eating your prepaid resort lodging is mitigated.

This is precisely what happened to me when I bailed out of Jackson and went to SLC during that scorching hot spring break week in 1986. I should point out that I did not already have a rental car and had to pay extra for that too. We also had 18-month-old Adam with us and had to arrange day care in SLC or at the ski resorts on short notice. I think the logistics of GPaul modifying his trip are not as difficult as in my case in 1986.

When I give advice about when/where to take family ski vacations and to take action to improve trips that aren't working out, it's not theoretical. I have been there and done that for 15+ "family years."

 

[ChrisC]

Well -- to spend Christmas in Telluride -- I think it's a better experience than the Wal*Mart ski culture of Park City, Steamboat, Salt Lake, etc.

Telluride is simply the best ski town in the US: Authentic, strikingly beautiful, full of character and characters, great mountain, sunny, lift-side, no cars, walk everywhere.

(C'mon, Telluride is so unique you even had powerful, resident Republicans contributing big $$$ to seizing the Valley Floor for Open Land via Eminent Domain - thanks Norman Schwarzkopf, Meg Whitman, etc..).

So 4pm till 9am....GPual has got some goodness going on..

 

[Marc_C]

Funny how we live vicariously through this guy's trip planning like none other.

Well, when someone repeatedly sets themselves up as a virtual chew-toy, it's hard to resist!

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note II using Tapatalk 2

Sent from *my* Grimdlebimp t-5700 IIIV-2C Cosmo-plif GXD-4 using Flapabappa text-o-flubar earblatz, which is better than your slab of glass!

Can we give the gratuitous marketing a rest?