Alta, UT 12/28/08

[Admin]

Should I read into your post as meaning I'll find winter snow on just about all aspects above say 8k ft?

I didn't say that -- I haven't been up in 2 days so I can't say for sure from first-hand experience. However, I'd expect north-facing above, say, 8500 feet to be fine. Today's forecast for Alta, for example, called for temps ranging from 23-28ºF. That's not spring. And remember, too, that the sun right now is as weak as it gets all year.

How do you think Mineral Basin will be?

First to soften, if anything does -- most of it faces south, SE or SW.

Never had a good run in there, but had some really bad ones that leave you wondering why you dropped in after one turn.

Aaah, that nasty refrozen coral reef. That's where local knowledge comes into play. For nearly every aspect there's a time and place where the sun has nicely resoftened again, but you have to hit it at its magic window and know when and where that magic window will occur. A change of 5 degrees in aspect can mean a quantum change in snow surface.

Also, few realize that the Sunday Cliffs in Mineral Basin actually face NNE.

 

[Tony Crocker]

IIRC the Baldy lift in Mineral Basin is close to a north/south axis, so you can orient yourself by that. I've observed on some S facing steeps (Vail Back Bowls, Castle Mt.) that 20F is a good rule of thumb for whether that exposure will remain winter snow. Near the solstice the E and W facing stuff is usually no problem.

The above temperature/time of year issues are independent of snow surface issues related to wind effect, as Mammoth and Baldy skiers know all too well.

 

[Admin]

IIRC the Baldy lift in Mineral Basin is close to a north/south axis, so you can orient yourself by that.

Here, this help with correct orientation (click image to open full-size):

 

[icelanticskier]

Not that I think there's much of a chance, but hate to hear the term "corn" thrown around in late December.

Consider that your source is an East Coaster who lived here for one season more than a decade ago.

oh no, you forgot that i spent the winter of 2001 there as well and have done many 10+ day trips out there in between. what admin? are you all of a sudden a west coaster? gaper. what kind of source are you? oh ya, you do 90% of your skiing at alta and don't do much touring. i can asure you that i know those mountains better than you and many that hang on this forum. someone asks me about the wasatch,i'll give em the straight dope, lift and bc.
enjoy that wonderful snowpack and bed surfaces/RAIN crusts
rog

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Hug it out, you two.

 

[Harvey]

This is exactly how my family gets along. :roll:

 

[Admin]

oh no, you forgot that i spent the winter of 2001 there as well and have done many 10+ day trips out there in between.

Oh, I stand corrected...consider that your source is someone who spent two seasons here, and an occasional visit here and there just like every visitor. I bow to your superior knowledge. :roll: This is also the same person who this week wrote,

all in all, east coast skiing is just plain better.

Like I said, consider your source: a disgruntled ex-Alta employee who couldn't hack it for more than a season. :lol: And Ice, well...enjoy your rain-soaked refrozen crud.

 

[icelanticskier]

oh no, you forgot that i spent the winter of 2001 there as well and have done many 10+ day trips out there in between.

Oh, I stand corrected...consider that your source is someone who spent two seasons here, and an occasional visit here and there just like every visitor.



Like I said, consider your source: a disgruntled ex-Alta employee who couldn't hack it for more than a season

one season at alta led me to the joys of the other, less blown out canyon and a much higher quality ski experience that is bcc and solitude mountain resort and it's easy access slackcountry and bc. disgruntled ex-alta employee? no, i just don't like alta on a whole as it's "the place to be" and a zoo more often than not that turns me off to the place. i don't go out to utah to ski anything other than untracked snow which is why i'm usually in the bc or solitude on storm days. road closures, liftlines, flying hippies, lcc, you can have it.
rog

 

[Admin]

When you quoted me you apparently forgot to include this:

all in all, east coast skiing is just plain better.

and this:

And Ice, well...enjoy your rain-soaked refrozen crud.

 

[icelanticskier]

When you quoted me you forgot to include this:

all in all, east coast skiing is just plain better.

and i stand behind that statement all the way. for all of the aspects in skiing including history, epic snows, epic thaws, epic days, and days to avoid, so many different types of snow ever changing that skis so well, lift served, bc, xc with ocean views, quaint ski towns, small town rope tows and bigger mountain trams. just more variety of everything skiwise out here in a relatively small area. of course i love skiing out there or i wouldn't visit. love skiing untracked pow every day, but skiing untracked pow every day in mountains where everything looks pretty much the same get boring to me after awhile. out here it's different skiing all of the time. some days it's pulling off 4200 vert runs from the summit of mt washington, other times it's skiing along the lampry river near the coast. the ski, surf and mountain bike all in one day, days are truly special. no rain crust skiing for me btw, i wouldn't have it, especially when there's soft snow to be had like i had b4 work this morning. gonna be skiing my 9th pow day tomorrow out of 18 days so far this season-no complaints.
enjoy the same lifts, same terrain, same scenery, same snow, well maybe not huh?, same crew, same smog-won't be long, and the same lore that keeps all of the sheep from around the globe herding up lcc to wait in line on the next big pow day.
rog

 

[icelanticskier]

Should I read into your post as meaning I'll find winter snow on just about all aspects above say 8k ft? How do you think Mineral Basin will be? Never had a good run in there, but had some really bad ones that leave you wondering why you dropped in after one turn.

Just trying to get some info before we choose a ski area and what runs to hit tomorrow. Obviously I'll have the answers to these questions in 24 hours but gotta keep busy at the office somehow.

try brighton for upper elevation snow quality or solitude, well for more solitude and start off the lower HSQ for morning softening and work yer way up and over from there finishing off of summit. powderhorn could be good for most of the day cuz it offers a wrap a round of aspects.
rog

 

[icelanticskier]

When you quoted me you forgot to include this:

all in all, east coast skiing is just plain better.

and i stand behind that statement all the way. for all of the aspects in skiing including history, epic snows, epic thaws, epic days, and days to avoid, so many different types of snow ever changing that skis so well, lift served, bc, xc with ocean views, quaint ski towns, small town rope tows and bigger mountain trams. just more variety of everything skiwise out here in a relatively small area. of course i love skiing out there or i wouldn't visit. love skiing untracked pow every day, but skiing untracked pow every day in mountains where everything looks pretty much the same get boring to me after awhile. out here it's different skiing all of the time. some days it's pulling off 4200 vert runs from the summit of mt washington, other times it's skiing along the lampry river near the coast. the ski, surf and mountain bike all in one day, days are truly special. no rain crust skiing for me btw, i wouldn't have it, especially when there's soft snow to be had like i had b4 work this morning. gonna be skiing my 9th pow day tomorrow out of 18 days so far this season-no complaints.
enjoy the same lifts, same terrain, same scenery, same snow, well maybe not huh?, same crew, same smog-won't be long, and the same lore that keeps all of the sheep from around the globe herding up lcc to wait in line on the next big pow day.
rog

oh, i forgot to mention, new england, especially northern new england is tough to beat for quality of life all around. slc? not so much.
rog

 

[jamesdeluxe]

Ice throws his cards on the table.

Where's that popcorn-eating emoticon?

 

[Admin]

for all of the aspects in skiing including history

Alf Engen, Dick Durrance, Joe Quinney, ... Alta and Brighton both opened before either MRG or Stowe had lifts.

epic snows

<snicker>

epic thaws

No comment required. Explain to me again why I'm supposed to pine for that?

epic days

See videos page.

and days to avoid

:roll:

so many different types of snow ever changing that skis so well

Change aspect.

lift served, bc

Yeah? We don't?

xc with ocean views

You finally found one, but where's your view of southern Utah red rock while xc at Bryce Canyon, or alpine at Brian Head?

quaint ski towns

OK, I'll give you two.

small town rope tows and bigger mountain trams

Beaver Mountain and Snowbird.

just more variety of everything skiwise out here in a relatively small area

How long exactly does it take you to drive to Sunday River? :lol: I've got 11 lift-served places, one cat-skiing place, two heli-skiing ops and limitless bc within an hour of my door.

the ski, surf and mountain bike all in one day

And here we have ski, mountain bike, road bike, kayak, hike, fish, boat and golf all in one day if you can handle it.

oh, i forgot to mention, new england, especially northern new england is tough to beat for quality of life all around. slc? not so much.

Only if you consider 15% unemployment/85% low-wage jobs in NNE essential to your "quality of life." Tough to have quality of life when you can't feed your family. Last I checked, Orleans County, VT was 20% unemployed. Northern New Hampshire and Maine are both full of dying or abandoned paper mills and little else.

But, instead of your usual rant, let's try to get this back on point: you were explaining about how you know more about what's going on here right now snow-wise than those of us who are actually located here. Please elaborate.

 

[icelanticskier]

how do i know what the snow wise situation is out there right now? that's easy. other than reading reports that include daily doses of the avi forecast and weather related links, i happen to have a very close friend and touring partner who spends quite possibly more time in tha wasatch than all of the other avi forecasters combined and you know who i'm talking about. for every word thats in the daily avi forecasts we come up with another 10 or more that involve the current snow pack from the ground up on all aspects and elevations. we always do this leading up to my arrival to chart out our course of action which is why this year my trip has been pushed back to march when he has time to ski everyday with less concern for the snowpack. craig only averages like 250 days or more on snow per year and has a 20 year monthly ski streak goin. so, even though i'm not there, which obviously would make me more legit in my snow how, i've got a pretty good idea of what's goin on. it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know how temps/winds/sun/elevation can make changes to the snow. good enough for ya?
rog

 

[Admin]

I know Craig. Craig is a friend of mine. And you, sir, sitting on the N.H. seacoast waiting for non-liquid precipitation, are not Craig.

 

[salida]

Dang -

It is obvious this argument will never be settled. Roger moved back east because he likes the variety of life more, and only needs 10 days of Wasatch pow to satiate his light and fluffy snow thirst for the year. The rest of the FTO crew likes skiing the light and fluffy every day, in lieu of the North East's charm, character, variability, and ocean.

They are both wonderful spots, there really is no need to rank one better than the other.

 

[jamesdeluxe]

They are both wonderful spots, there really is no need to rank one better than the other.

We're sorry, but that's an unacceptable response.

 

[Admin]

It is obvious this argument will never be settled.

Agreed. However, that's not the point -- the only thing that brought the age-old argument back into it was Roger's usual digression rant. He brought it up as his typical red herring response to get the topic to stray -- his patterns are so predictable and I'm ashamed to admit that they actually sucked both of us into it for a moment.

However, to bring things back on track and away from his intentional diversion, I'm still waiting for a compelling argument from him on why his armchair quarterbacking from the N.H. seacoast is more accurate regarding the current state of our snow surfaces than the observations from those of us who are actually skiing on it. To wit, there's this arrogant little gem:

oh no, you forgot that i spent the winter of 2001 there as well and have done many 10+ day trips out there in between. what admin? are you all of a sudden a west coaster? gaper. what kind of source are you? oh ya, you do 90% of your skiing at alta and don't do much touring. i can asure you that i know those mountains better than you and many that hang on this forum.

 

[salida]

Truth. Dug two pits on patsey's yesterday, west facing, low elevation. Both were stable with rutschblock tests. The 'rain' layer is beginning to bond...

quick edit: the most unstable layer appeared to be the depth hoar below the rain crust, large crystals...