American Election 2024

15 point error for Iowa.
Quite the miss.
I shouldn’t know who Anne Selzer is but she got big air play last weekend here in the local regular press. That should give some idea of how much news attention the election received here. I can only put that down to the personality that is DJT because no US election prior to 2020 has received anywhere near as much attention.

I’m going to do my best to avoid politics in the news for some time. I’ll spend more time reading history and fiction as I have in the past.
 
Quite the miss.
I shouldn’t know who Anne Selzer is but she got big air play last weekend here in the local regular press. That should give some idea of how much news attention the election received here. I can only put that down to the personality that is DJT because no US election prior to 2020 has received anywhere near as much attention.

I’m going to do my best to avoid politics in the news for some time. I’ll spend more time reading history and fiction as I have in the past.
My daughters and wife are very depressed. But we have no choice but to move on.
What is also wild , is the weather in the Northeast. 80deg yesterday no real cold air in sight
 
sfgate.com columnist that I edited my Halloween post to include posted yesterday on election results with headline "Democracy died in plain sight". It begins with

"Donald Trump was elected president again last night. After being voted out of office in 2020. After trying to rig the vote and then to overthrow the government by force in the wake of that loss. After all but welcoming a pandemic that ended up killing more than a million of us. After ripping away abortion care rights from millions of American women. After being impeached, twice. After being convicted of multiple felonies. After dogging it on the campaign trail, playing to emptying halls while speaking in demented tongues unknown even to him. After all of that, and God knows what else, we have to do this s—t all over again."

See rest of his column at https://www.sfgate.com/politics/article/democracy-died-in-plain-sight-19893922.php
 
Maybe more accurate to say, it's hard to imagine a democrat winning without a lead in the popular vote.
Again, that could have happened with Obama in 2008 and 2012. :eusa-wall:

As a public service, let's walk through the tipping point calculation for 2024 based upon current results.

Start Trump with the 219 electoral votes from the safe Republican states. Here are the results from the swing states:


Dem.
Rep.
Percent reported
Rep. Margin
Accum. Electoral vote
10
Wis.
48.8%
49.6%
99%
0.8%
312
15
Mich.
48.3%
49.7%
99%
1.4%
302
19
Pa.
48.5%
50.4%
98%
1.9%
287
16
Ga.
48.5%
50.7%
99%
2.2%
268
16
N.C.
47.7%
51.0%
99%
3.3%
252
6
Nev.
47.2%
51.0%
94%
3.8%
236
11
Ariz.
46.8%
52.3%
70%
5.5%
230
93
219

The states are sorted in order of Republican margin of victory, with each state's electoral vote count in the far left column. So the far right column adds each swing state from the bottom up to the initial 219 from the safe states.

Pennsylvania is the state that brings Trump's total over 270. That is the definition of tipping point state.

Currently Trump's margin in the national popular vote is 50.8% - 47.5% = 3.3%

To calculate electoral vote bias, you move the winner's national popular vote margin down in every state the percentage to make the tipping point state's margin zero.

So 3.3% - 1.9% = 1.4% This means that if Pennsylvania had been a dead heat, Trump would still be ahead by 1.4% in national popular vote. It means as well that if Harris had won Pennsylvania by 0.1%, she would also have won Michigan, Wisconsin and the electoral college while losing the popular vote by 1.3%. Perhaps this will lay to rest the narrative that the electoral college is biased in favor of the Republicans.

Refer to the table of electoral college bias since 1952 that I posted earlier. The bias on average is a measly 0.12% in favor of the Republicans and should get even closer to zero with final 2024 numbers.

If the tipping point state popular vote margin is greater than the national margin, the electoral college favors the electoral college winner.
If the tipping point state popular vote margin is less than the national margin, the electoral college favors the electoral college loser.
 
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we have to do this s—t all over again."
While driving to Morristown NJ a few minutes ago, a reminder that whenever he flies into and out of that small airport to visit his country club in Bedminster, they have to close down the highway for an hour before and after landing, accompanied by monster delays. Obviously small potatoes in the greater scheme, but to quote Tony Soprano, "here I am again... back."
:eusa-wall:
 
Here's the postmortem Bret Stephens column which Liz unlocked.

I'd say tseeb's sfgate columnist falls into Stephens' category of:
The broad inability of liberals to understand Trump’s political appeal except in terms flattering to their beliefs is itself part of the explanation for his historic, and entirely avoidable, comeback......Right now, my larger fear is that liberals lack the introspection to see where they went wrong, the discipline to do better next time and the humility to change.
 
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Again, that could have happened with Obama in 2008 and 2012. :eusa-wall:

As a public service, let's walk through the tipping point calculation for 2024 based upon current results.

Start Trump with the 219 electoral votes from the safe Republican states. Here are the results from the swing states:


Dem.
Rep.
Percent reported
Rep. Margin
Accum. Electoral vote
10
Wis.
48.8%
49.6%
99%
0.8%
312
15
Mich.
48.3%
49.7%
99%
1.4%
302
19
Pa.
48.5%
50.4%
98%
1.9%
287
16
Ga.
48.5%
50.7%
99%
2.2%
268
16
N.C.
47.7%
51.0%
99%
3.3%
252
6
Nev.
47.2%
51.0%
94%
3.8%
236
11
Ariz.
46.8%
52.3%
70%
5.5%
230
93
219

The states are sorted in order of Republican margin of victory, with each state's electoral vote count in the far left column. So the far right column adds each swing state from the bottom up to the initial 219 from the safe states.

Pennsylvania is the state that brings Trump's total over 270. That is the definition of tipping point state.

Currently Trump's margin in the national popular vote is 50.8% - 47.5% = 3.3%

To calculate electoral vote bias, you move the winner's national popular vote margin down in every state the amount to make the tipping point state's margin zero.

So 3.3% - 1.9% = 1.4% This means that if Pennsylvania had been a dead heat, Trump would still be ahead by 1.4% in national popular vote. It means as well that if Harris had won Pennsylvania by 0.1%, she would also have won Michigan, Wisconsin and the electoral college while losing the popular vote by 1.3%. Perhaps this will lay to rest the narrative that the electoral college is biased in favor of the Republicans.

Refer to the table of electoral college bias since 1952 that I posted earlier. The bias on average is a measly 0.12% in favor of the Republicans and should get even closer to zero with final 2024 numbers.

If the tipping point state popular vote margin is less than the national margin, the electoral college favors the electoral college winner.
If the tipping point state popular vote margin is greater than the national margin, the electoral college favors the electoral college loser.

Tony I'm sorry to say tldr. But you know what? This is a statistical thing. I'm guessing, and you are performing science.

I say this sincerely: I take your word for it.

Now it seems estimates for the pop vote difference is over 3M. That is significant IMO.
 
Now it seems estimates for the pop vote difference is over 3M. That is significant IMO.
Yes, it's 4.5 million now, but rates to still be 3.5 million once California is done counting.
Tony I'm sorry to say tldr
After the repeated assertion of consistent Republican bias in the electoral college, I felt it necessary to show the step by step calculation. I was surprised by the result. Yesterday I knew the Republican bias from 2020 was coming way down due to Trump's disproportionate improvement (9-11%) in the 4 largest states. I did not realize it would actually go the other way in 2024. Aside from Nevada, the swing states moved much less in Trump's direction (average 3%) than the overall popular vote did (8+%).
 
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So obvious now. At the moment I feel pretty dumb for thinking Trump would get beaten.
What was obvious was the uncertainty IMHO given the degrading quality of polling. Nate Silver predicted a 60% chance of at least 6 of the 7 swing states going in one direction. He didn't know which direction though his gut said Trump. Ann Selzer was the red herring on the direction.
 
Following this exchange on the previous page:
January 6 wasn't a disqualifying event for you?
I was really angry about it, but to answer your question, I guess not.
I appreciate your candor.

I realised that my initial question was part of what this piece -- amidst the avalanche of "Democrats need to finally come to terms with [fill in the blank]" articles that are being posted -- identifies as pearl-clutching attempts to explain away and delegitimatise an entire movement/world view that's been approved by a majority of the voting public.

Here's his list, although there are many more moments that could've been included:

I remember when Donald Trump was not normal.
I remember when Trump was a fever that would break.
I remember when Trump was running as a joke.
I remember when Trump was best covered in the entertainment section.
I remember when Trump would never become the Republican nominee.
I remember when Trump couldn’t win the general election.
I remember when Trump’s attacks on John McCain were disqualifying.
I remember when Trump’s “Access Hollywood” tape would force him out.
I remember when Trump was James Comey’s fault.
I remember when Trump was the news media’s fault.
I remember when Trump won because Hillary Clinton was unlikable.
I remember when 2016 was a fluke.
I remember when the office of the presidency would temper Trump.
I remember when the adults in the room would contain him.
I remember when the Ukraine phone call went too far.
I remember when Trump learned his lesson after the first impeachment.
I remember when Jan. 6 would be the end of Trump’s political career.
I remember when the 2022 midterms meant the country was moving on.
I remember when Trump’s indictments would give voters pause.
I remember when Trump’s felony convictions would give voters pause.
I remember when Trump would win because Joe Biden was old.
I remember when Kamala Harris’s joy would overpower Trump’s fear-mongering.
I remember when Trump was weird.
I remember when Trump was not who we are.
 
I remember when
If you really want to "remember when" then you need to go back to what got him to ever run at all. Obama made a point of personally embarrassing Trump in 2011 (like badly and very very uncomfortably so, in public). Without that incident Trump would not have run.

The result of that was a very determined candidate. With a not overly secret goal of trying to get revenge by wiping all Obama accomplishments out. I think Obamacare is just about the only thing/legislation/rulemaking that Obama did that survived beyond Trumps 1st term.
 
If you really want to "remember when" then you need to go back to what got him to ever run at all. Obama made a point of personally embarrassing Trump in 2011 (like badly and very very uncomfortably so, in public). Without that incident Trump would not have run.
Yes and it wasn't only Obama at that dinner, as this link shows: I remember when Trump was running as a joke. Based on Seth Myers' bit, he was already running for president as a Republican and this event only reinforced his anger, grievance, etc. against the Dems.

To be fair, Obama was responding to the relentless birther bollox. Still, it's a defining example of liberal elites goofing on the arriviste from Queens.
 
My son shared a depressing Ezra Klein NY Times podcast with us. He blames some of the same reasons that Allan Lichtman who says two major reasons Harris lost are "disdain for the Biden-Harris administration and Harris' delayed campaign start after Biden dropped out of the election on July 21". He also says "I don't think I called any (keys) wrong," Lichtman said. "The contest key was rendered problematic by what went on by the Democratic Party but I don't think you can say I called it wrong except for in retrospect. At the time it was the more reasonable call."
 
I will never forget a gathering of ski buddies in Feb 2016 at a rental house at Blue Knob, PA. After a day of fun skiing, there were about 6-8 of us talking about the ongoing presidential primaries. Most of us were moderate-conservatives. We were discussing the GOP field which was still wide open at the time, with DJT ascending even though he was still considered mostly a joke. Some of the more mainstreamers like Jeb Bush and Rubio were fading. At one point we asked, "who has the best chance of beating the Dems (likely Hillary)?" She seemed very strong at the time coming off Obama's popular presidency. We all looked at each other with dismay and concluded DJT. :rolleyes:

I'm afraid we're in for violent swings from far red to far blue in many upcoming elections. Our country is so polarized. And the definition of "far" is in the eye of the beholder.
 
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Obama made a point of personally embarrassing Trump in 2011 (like badly and very very uncomfortably so, in public)
That clip is here.
I don't think you can say I [Lichtman] called it wrong
His keys weren't wrong but he was wrong about Trump's obvious charisma when running as an outsider. I found his calls online and the Trump charisma key is the only difference between his list and my list.
 
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I'm afraid we're in for violent swings from far red to far blue in many upcoming elections. Our country is so polarized. And the definition of "far" is in the eye of the beholder.
I don’t think there’s much chance of a hard left person being elected in the USA.
Or do you think someone like AOC has a chance of being president in the future? If so you are seeing something I’m not.
 
I don’t think there’s much chance of a hard left person being elected in the USA.
Or do you think someone like AOC has a chance of being president in the future? If so you are seeing something I’m not.
I’m left leaning.
I would never vote for a AOC type.
 
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