Europe 23/24
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ChrisC
Well-known member
Yes. So far, it's tracking like the Winter of 2017/18 for the French and Western Swiss Alps (a once-in-a-generation snow year). From that winter's season summary by Fraser @Weathertoski:
Val d’Isère clocked up 8.89m (average about 5.2m), making it the snowiest season it has had since 1979-80. While nearby Arc 2000 saw 8.9m (average about 6m), its snowiest season since 1994-95. Over in Switzerland, the western resort of Verbier saw 9.4m at Les Ruinettes (2200m) not far off the record of 10.3m clocked up during the vintage season of 2012-13. Snowiest of all, however, and 'the snowiest resort in the Alps in 2017-18' was Cervinia, with 10.1m at resort level (2050m)- similar to the quantity recorded in Val Thorens in France - but an incredible 19.9m recorded up on the glacier at 3400m.
On par with all the hype bestowed on Utah and Tahoe last year.
I will likely add a few more days to my upcoming trip and include another Geneva loop of Verbier, Grimentz-Zinal, and Gstaad-Glacier 3000.
Anyways, back to the program....how's the snow?
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ChrisC
Well-known member
My St. Moritz hotel mates were mostly Germans on a package bus tour.
St. Moritz is A LOT less expensive than Aspen.
Yes, you can piss away money at St. Moritz or Zermatt, but as long as you religiously watch your food expense - both these mountains can be done at budgets more similar to a US resort like Keystone, Solitude, Winter Park, etc.
After a little more on airfare, you reap big savings on lift tickets, transportation (car or public), parking and in-town lodging. Just need to dig/search a bit.
Perception does not have to equal reality - unless you want it to.
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jasoncapecod
Well-known member
Few years back , my daughter and I skied Zermatt over the holiday week... Much less then Colo or Utah.. Like Chris mentioned, just have to watch were you eat..
ChrisC
Well-known member
You have to go to a Pass Office at Zermatt (at all major lifts) in order to get one of its RFID cards and they will manually add your allotment of Ikon pass days.
Just say you want to add insurance (or 'ski care' in this case) to your daily ticket (rate is 5 CHF/day).
Also, I would recommend skiing over to Italy/Cervinia one day. Again, you can go to a pass office and add 'International' for a day (rate is 14 CHF). You do not need to pay for this everyday - only pick a good weather day when the links are definitely open.
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Funny you mention Aspen. I’ve been there twice previously and didn’t find it too bad. Both times on Mountain Collective. It may have changed somewhat now though.
If I were American and on a tight budget I’d buy a MC pass and stay at Glenwood Springs and take a packed lunch. The lack of crowds at the Aspen mountains are impressive. Unless that has changed also.
ChrisC
Well-known member
I'd rather not do the above. Is that really fun?
The traffic going up/down Aspen’s Roaring Fork valley is really bad! There are HOV lanes. Bus lanes. A one hour daily commute with traffic is not a great vacation no matter how uncrowded the mountain might be. Sure - a day or two to check the box on “skied Aspen’….
I mean - I hoard my frequent flier miles to fly into Aspen off-peak, avoid a car rental, look for an AirBnb to cook some meals and utilize MC or pre-pay lift tickets.
A hotel in St. Moritz Bad ($100-200) is a lot cheaper than room in Aspen ($300-400 ++).
Walk to lifts, lake, St. Moritz Dorf, etc. No car/traffic/parking fees.
Mountain Collective still more expensive than a St. Moritz lift ticket.
The above could be said of other US Ski Mountains: Telluride, Vail, Beaver Creek…increasingly Breck, Park City, Jackson
Snowmass condos were much cheaper than Aspen, albeit ten years ago. It may be that my opinion of western destination resort lodging is getting out of date. The high expense visits were Big Sky last year and Telluride 2019. And as noted before Big Sky was reasonable in 2013. Jackson 2022 and Sun Valley last year were OK.
It's still easy to drive into Aspen for dinner/apres ski. Aspen street parking is restricted during the ski day but not afterwards. Like ChrisC, I'd try to avoid that downvalley commute for skiing. As for the packed lunch, Aspen is one of the very few US resorts that has some Euro quality on-mountain dining. I've always hit Cloud 9 at Highlands after a one and done trek up Highlands Bowl.
It's still easy to drive into Aspen for dinner/apres ski. Aspen street parking is restricted during the ski day but not afterwards. Like ChrisC, I'd try to avoid that downvalley commute for skiing. As for the packed lunch, Aspen is one of the very few US resorts that has some Euro quality on-mountain dining. I've always hit Cloud 9 at Highlands after a one and done trek up Highlands Bowl.
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I’ve not stayed in Glenwood yet. Once I’ve stayed in Aspen and the other time Snowmass. I didn’t realise there were traffic issues. I have previously found the drive quite pleasant.
The times I have had Mountain Collective in the past I’ve always got at least 10 days out of it so it works out great value in my opinion.
But yes. Europe is comparatively cheap. My April on snow accommodation in Tignes is about $100Aud per night from memory.
ChrisC
Well-known member
I will be skiing in Europe for the first time at the end of January this year. Our plan is to got to Zermatt. I am finding many different considerations in the Alp that I never encounter in NA. A friend of mine mentioned previously being at Zermatt and having all lifts closed for 3 out of 5 days due to high avalanche risk from a storm cycle. This has me worried now. I can understand some portions being closed for high avalanche risk, but a complete closure? Does anyone know if this is typical? Obviously, I am going to ski and would hope to take advantage of a storm cycle.
During a storm cycle is difficult over there. You really can't see anything above tree line other than the markers along the pistes. But after the storm you'll be able to ski untracked not far off the trails because the Euros stick to the groomers.
However, are multiday total closures typical or is that something very rare?
Hard to say. Precipitation volatility is less than California but more than other North American ski regions. 70% of my euro ski days have had clear weather. Some of the other 30% are still manageable. Maybe 10% fall into category of the visibility so bad it's better to be doing something else. But of course weather is streaky. In the past stormy month in the northern Alps (or much of last season in Utah and the Sierra) it wouldn't surprise me if half the days had impaired visibility. The difference is that in western North America most of the skiing is below tree line so we tend to view "storm skiing " as a positive. At my home mountain of Mammoth it's not that way and most resorts in the Alps are similar in that regard. But usually the Alps are not as windy as Mammoth, so after the storm the powder is fluffier.
ChrisC
Well-known member
I am nearing 100 Euro ski days and have never experienced a multi-day closure. (That would be one magical/major storm system!)
I have had 12"+ snowfalls at Chamonix/Grands Montets, Verbier, Val d'Isere, Zermatt, Andermatt, Laax, and St. Anton/Lech that did not really impact operations. Sometimes, upper mountain lifts would be closed for a day. Most of the time, everything opened by the afternoon.
You might have one 'bad' day, but not many days.
Also, download the Zermatt app to your phone!!!!! Weather deviates over these massive ski complexes that are nearly 10 miles wide. Specifically, you want the webcams! Look at them on stormy days. For example, Klein Matterhorn/Glacier Paradise could be fogged in and awful - meanwhile, there are sun breaks over Rothorn, and skiing is amazing.
While skiing St. Anton/Arlberg, I watched our guides religiously check webcams. You could have snow in Stuben and sunny/powder in Zurs.
Zermatt has a few pisted tree-lined sloped, but not many. There really is no nearby 'backup' lower ski area for Zermatt.
I bristle when we talk about skiing in the Alps in sweeping terms -- "it's always like this" and "it's always like that." There are all sorts of scenarios depending on your target region and where/how a storm is going to hit.
I skied at St. Moritz/Corviglia during last Wednesday's storm because I'd committed to it (bought three days of almost half-price tickets through my lodging with a use 'em or lose 'em setup) and knew that the only trees I'd encounter were on the valley runs back into town.
With flexibility, which is almost always my SOP, you can divert to an appropriate ski area if the precip comes in at a low elevation. The oft-trotted-out gold standard for this was my March 2016 visit to Mythen, only 22 miles south of Zurich (a top altitude of only 1,600 meters!
). Playing amongst the trees on a storm day and enjoying the leftovers on the following bluebird day.
I skied at St. Moritz/Corviglia during last Wednesday's storm because I'd committed to it (bought three days of almost half-price tickets through my lodging with a use 'em or lose 'em setup) and knew that the only trees I'd encounter were on the valley runs back into town.
With flexibility, which is almost always my SOP, you can divert to an appropriate ski area if the precip comes in at a low elevation. The oft-trotted-out gold standard for this was my March 2016 visit to Mythen, only 22 miles south of Zurich (a top altitude of only 1,600 meters!
). Playing amongst the trees on a storm day and enjoying the leftovers on the following bluebird day.
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ChrisC
Well-known member
There are better resorts than Zermatt for storm day skiing:
Andermatt on a storm day: Link March 6, 2020. Maybe 1/3 of the mountain is open. Great skiing.
A snowy low visibility day at Arosa-Lenzerheide: Link Doable, not bad.
Just get out there and use webcams to find sectors with sun breaks! Save this link to your mobile phone. Zermatt webcams Here And also save the real-time map Here. It is also in the Zermatt app.
Here's an example of a 'bad' weather day at Zermatt on Feb 1, 2018.
Zermatt town - foggy, cloudy.
Zermatt Hohtalli cable car (about the size of a Snowbird or Jackson Hole) is above the clouds with 10"+ new:
Again, we were the only ones out there - maybe 10 others. No one on this tram!
- Chamonix - head to Les Houches, Megeve or even Courmayeur
- Verbier - Bruson and lower slopes
- Val d'Isere - a few trees down low
- St. Anton - a few trees on the lower mountain
Andermatt on a storm day: Link March 6, 2020. Maybe 1/3 of the mountain is open. Great skiing.
A snowy low visibility day at Arosa-Lenzerheide: Link Doable, not bad.
Just get out there and use webcams to find sectors with sun breaks! Save this link to your mobile phone. Zermatt webcams Here And also save the real-time map Here. It is also in the Zermatt app.
Here's an example of a 'bad' weather day at Zermatt on Feb 1, 2018.
Zermatt town - foggy, cloudy.
Zermatt Hohtalli cable car (about the size of a Snowbird or Jackson Hole) is above the clouds with 10"+ new:
Again, we were the only ones out there - maybe 10 others. No one on this tram!
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I was at Andermatt the last 3 days of my 2013 trip. Day 1 I skied but visibility was bad enough to force staying within sight of the piste markers. The next two days it was worse, and since Gemsstock's upper tram did not open we went to Lake Como/Milan one day and Lucerne the next.
Twice we have taken a multiday break from skiing (Venice 2017 and Cinque Terre 2022) to avoid bad weather. Both of those storms had rain/snow lines around 2,000 meters, which means any tree skiing would be in the rain. With bad vis in the alpine, that's the dreaded "weather sandwich" which Liz suffered on her Chamonix trip in 2001. A similar storm greeted us upon arrival in Geneva in 2018. That time we ran away from it to the Dolomites.
I need to remember this. On my last day at Val Thorens I was thrashing around in the fog while supposedly some guides took people to Courchevel where there were sunny breaks.
Fraser says:
Between Wednesday and Saturday, significant quantities of snow are expected to fall above 1500m across many northern parts of the Alps, especially in Switzerland and Austria, where totals of 50-80cm, and maybe even over 1m are possible.
Between Wednesday and Saturday, significant quantities of snow are expected to fall above 1500m across many northern parts of the Alps, especially in Switzerland and Austria, where totals of 50-80cm, and maybe even over 1m are possible.
