Europe 23/24
- Thread starter Sbooker
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skiandgolfnut
Member
Does anyone have any reliable websites for snowfall info in the Dolomites? We are still holding out hope that a trip the week of the 25th will work out. All of the forecasts prior to this past weekend referred to the "south" getting significant snow. While Ive been able to cobble together from trip reports on different forums that Aosta area did very well, info on the dolomites is tough to come by. No idea how much snow they received and if conditions have markedly improved. We intend on flying into Milan and making a game time decision about where to base. If the weather doesn't cooperate we will go to Snowbird and try again next year.
@Tony Crocker or @Weathertoski, can you advise?
I have no experience there but wonder about school holiday crowds during the last week of February.
ChrisC
Well-known member
You could try a Dolomite resort website - weather and snow conditions. And look at some webcams. Make a judgment call knowing the Dolomites are a lower snowfall region (Like Sun Valley, Keystone, Taos), and you are going to be mostly cruising around (with a few off-piste shots (Marmolada Glacier)) eating great food/wine in the sun.
(Not sure how Snowbird would be the alternative?! The few intermediate slopes get blasted/scrapped by noon due to traffic - see St. Anton discussion)
Let's try Val Gardena. https://www.dolomitisuperski.com/en/Experience/Ski-areas/Val-Gardena/Weather
It looks like 10" of new snow over the weekend, with the last snowfall on Sunday. And a 3 ft base. Solid/typical for the Dolomites.
Look at some webcams.
Webcams Val Gardena / Seiser Alm | Dolomiti Superski
All webcams of the Val Gardena ski resort in the Dolomites at a glance. Discover what’s going on in this wonderful ski resort in Italy.
www.dolomitisuperski.com
Coverage looks good. Not just White Ribbons of Death. Off-piste in the Dolomites is always limited, even in the best of times.
Check out slopes.
Slopes Val Gardena / Seiser Alm | Dolomiti Superski
Get your skis on and discover everything the Dolomites has to offer
www.dolomitisuperski.com
Looks like 99% open.
Arraba looks very good.
Webcams Arabba / Marmolada | Dolomiti Superski
All webcams of the Arabba ski resort in the Dolomites at a glance. Discover what’s going on in this wonderful ski resort in Italy.
www.dolomitisuperski.com
Cortina looks good. Not much snow in town but 90% of runs look open.
Again, any ski resort you visit - conditions/experience will result from the immediate weather 3-7 days out once you have a base. A 100" Jackson Hole can be a disaster with a few days of sun, then cold. And a 36" Dolomite resort can be the best thing ever with 10" during your stay.
I see no reason to avoid the Dolomites. But again, look for trip reports - maybe SnowHeads or AlpinForum - and judgements/experiences.
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Fraser today:
ChrisC is correct that these areas are in full operation on a 3 foot base and that your skiing will be 100% on piste. My view is a bit more negative because dealing with scraped and/or slushy manmade pistes gets tiresome after a while. It was such a delight skiing groomers yesterday at Mammoth where all traces of manmade snow are deeply buried by the 6-7 foot dump of last week.
I also agree that with ChrisC that Snowbird vs. the Dolomites is as apples-and-oranges as you can get. If you are looking for Snowbird type skiing you should not be considering the Dolomites, and vice versa. You want good groomer skiing? Come to Mammoth or someplace in Colorado far enough away from Denver.
OpenSnow has Snow Report pages for individual resorts including a snowfall history calendar. These exist for Euro reports, but with an "estimated" caveat. That means they are not based upon numbers submitted daily by the resorts but by weather modeling. Canazei, near the southwest edge of the Sella Ronda, is showing 78 inches season-to-date including 27 in January and 7 so far in February. While the Dolomites have by consensus the most comprehensive snowmaking in the world, that does not mean they are immune from the effects of melt/freeze. With an OK but not great altitude range (typically between 5,000-8,000 feet) and exposures all over the map, I'd expect a lot of spring conditions given the past month's weather.
ChrisC is correct that these areas are in full operation on a 3 foot base and that your skiing will be 100% on piste. My view is a bit more negative because dealing with scraped and/or slushy manmade pistes gets tiresome after a while. It was such a delight skiing groomers yesterday at Mammoth where all traces of manmade snow are deeply buried by the 6-7 foot dump of last week.
I also agree that with ChrisC that Snowbird vs. the Dolomites is as apples-and-oranges as you can get. If you are looking for Snowbird type skiing you should not be considering the Dolomites, and vice versa. You want good groomer skiing? Come to Mammoth or someplace in Colorado far enough away from Denver.
Italy's crowds are mostly weekend oriented, though the Dolomites get a lot of Germans. The current Mardi Gras week is the busiest vacation week for the Germans. That Feb. 23-25 weekend is the end of British holidays.
Weathertoski
Member
So as has been alluded to above, the Dolomites is all about cruising on well managed pistes (arguably THE best snow-making in the world), hoping for sun, gawping at the jaw-dropping scenery and settling in for a long lunch. This area is superb at opening as much as is humanly possible on relatively little snow. Right now there is no problem on-piste (in terms of cover) but forget off-piste, partly due to lack lack of serious natural snow but also because it's not actually permitted in many parts of the Dolomites. That said, stand by for a radical change in the weather pattern somewhere around the 23rd Feb. It's not a cert yet but most models are supporting widespread snow across the Alps.
skiandgolfnut
Member
Thanks all.
Obviously Dolomites vs Snowbird is totally apples and oranges. Our primary hope is to go to Europe. We already got permission from our wives for a longer than usual trip. The Dolomites are on the bucket list, even if we are just on piste. Given how the season seems to be going, off piste nearly anywhere in Europe seems like a shaky proposition. So if we can experience 95% of the usual Dolomite experience, which was most likely always only going to be cruising/eating/drinking anyways, it seems like a good use of our time. If the next 10 days produced a ton of snow elsewhere and off piste became feasible in Aosta or Monte Rosa or St Moritz or Engelberg etc we'd consider doing that too. If the forecast looks stormy or cloudy or just generally shitty a few days out, we can always just scrap the whole plan and go west to Snowbird and enjoy a regular trip there destroying our knees.
Based off of my reading of the school calendar, that weeks seems to be French half term and hopefully not a huge issue in Italy or Switzerland. I have concerns about the general warming pattern and the quality of the pistes as Tony alluded to. We are prepared and happy to cruise for several days, but doing so on shitty snow would probably detract from the experience. The webcams and snow reports I could cobble together make the current situation there seem quite good. Unclear how another 10 days might change things and how any storms the weekend of the 22/23/24 might change our calculus.
Unfortunately we dont have the ability to change our dates. Non skiing wives, kids etc.
Obviously Dolomites vs Snowbird is totally apples and oranges. Our primary hope is to go to Europe. We already got permission from our wives for a longer than usual trip. The Dolomites are on the bucket list, even if we are just on piste. Given how the season seems to be going, off piste nearly anywhere in Europe seems like a shaky proposition. So if we can experience 95% of the usual Dolomite experience, which was most likely always only going to be cruising/eating/drinking anyways, it seems like a good use of our time. If the next 10 days produced a ton of snow elsewhere and off piste became feasible in Aosta or Monte Rosa or St Moritz or Engelberg etc we'd consider doing that too. If the forecast looks stormy or cloudy or just generally shitty a few days out, we can always just scrap the whole plan and go west to Snowbird and enjoy a regular trip there destroying our knees.
Based off of my reading of the school calendar, that weeks seems to be French half term and hopefully not a huge issue in Italy or Switzerland. I have concerns about the general warming pattern and the quality of the pistes as Tony alluded to. We are prepared and happy to cruise for several days, but doing so on shitty snow would probably detract from the experience. The webcams and snow reports I could cobble together make the current situation there seem quite good. Unclear how another 10 days might change things and how any storms the weekend of the 22/23/24 might change our calculus.
Unfortunately we dont have the ability to change our dates. Non skiing wives, kids etc.
ChrisC
Well-known member
Val d'Isere/Tignes is back to its usually great off-piste self after a two-week anomaly / premature Spring.
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You have some other resorts there.
St. Moritz can always be strong. Corvatsch and Diavolezza/Lagalb usually retain good off-piste snow - high altitude and northern faces. Corviglia can be good a day after a storm this time of year. (A favorite multi-resort complex of mine where you can score surprisingly cheap lift passes from lodging partners - James knows the most recent prices). It is an easy drive from Milan, and there are lots of FTO reports here.
OpenSnow projections - again, a long way out, but some storm might materialize (amounts likely to bounce around):
However, the Dolomites might be very good if the storm materializes. It does not take a ton of snow to resurface cruisers and put them in great shape for a week. I have yet to visit - waiting for a big snow year, so the couloirs off the Paso Pordoi cable car / Val de Messi are well-covered.
Looked at Monterosa webcams. Still not sure if the snow bases are deep enough (<3ft or so). I still see a lot of rocks, similar to my 2023 visit.
If the storm materializes, you could optimally time this for snow in the Italian and Southern Swiss Alps.
skiandgolfnut
Member
It looks like the timing of this storm for next weekend will either make or break things one way or another. If we cant find good visibility that week though anywhere we will just have to stick to usa. If it snows a lot early in the period and then clears quickly we could be very lucky and either have a great trip, on piste,off piste, either is great for us. We might have the ability to push 2/3 days but not a full week. First day of skiing is planned for Tuesday the 27th.
ChrisC
Well-known member
Lol.
You would need an 'epic' storm cycle to have multiple-day visibility restrictions in the Dolomites due to snow. Maybe a little wind - but not pure snowfall. Besides, the Dolomites have many tree-lined runs, so it's a bit like skiing in the USA during storms (like Sun Valley with its open bowls, big groomers, and advanced snowmaking). St. Moritz would be more problematic. Monterosa too. Courmayeur has lots of tree-lined areas, so it's a bit stormproof.
Both major bed bases of Dolomites - Sella Ronda Circuit have trees: Val Gardena/Selva and Arabba.
skiandgolfnut
Member
That’s good to know. My experience with “tree” skiing in the alps has basically just been below tree line skiing that is skiable and certainly more pleasant than above tree line in a storm or not skiing at all but not particularly good. Not real tree skiing. Great for a stormy day when you’re there for a decently long trip and need to make lemonade, annoying if only there for 5 days. I would say 3/5 days looking sunny would be good enough to merit heading over. It’s still too far out to know what will be, we will probably make a decision on the 22nd or 23rd and I’d think the forecast will be clear by then. Flights shockingly remain really affordable even only a week out. 600 round trip from New York, well less than a flight to Salt Lake.
We recommend Arabba as the lodging base, less busy than Val Gardena, which is probably important now with little recent snow. Arabba is also closer to Marmolada and the World War I circuit that requires a couple of bus rides.
I got to talking to a chap from NY that was sitting next to us at the Augustiner beer hall last night. I explained we had been skiing and they have plans over doing so at Saalbach next week. We got to talking about conditions and I mentioned the relatively favourable snow conditions @jamesdeluxe @Tony Crocker @ChrisC enjoyed at Val D a couple of weeks ago. Anyway turns out the guy skis in Colorado once a season and he knows of the Bestsnow.net website. You’re famous Tony.
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My experience is that fellow travelers may or may not be aware of his name or website; however, when you mention his moniker, "King Of All Skiing Spreadsheets," the recognition level increases dramatically!
I assume sbooker and Kylie have been enjoying non-skiing activities during the peak school holiday week. I would not want to be in Saalbach under current conditions. I should check in with Jimmy Petterson about that.
Yes. Doing tourist things. Highlight being the Australian WW1 Western Front Memorial at Villers-Brettoneux.
And under is the local school playground. Note the sign signifying Australian soldiers efforts over 100 years ago.
Presumably sbooker and family have been to the excellent War Museum outside Canberra.
Yes. A couple of times. We’ve been to Arlington too. They’re all good but the Western Front area has extra since due to the incredible loss of life in the area and on that particular spot.
Before leaving to study in Nice in 1986, I remember being advised to sew a maple-leaf flag on my backpack as anti-American sentiment was especially strong back then due to Reagan. Really annoyed me that we were expected to walk around in Canadian drag considering how many of my generation's grandfathers (WWII) and great-grandfathers (WWI) died over there. Rant over.